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[themikefest]

 

Disk?

 

Nope. It was Conrad Verner. Yep, it was all him.(…well almost)

 

After escaping with the help of his (far) more competent girlfriend from husks, (and other reaper troops), into the keeper tunnels, they came upon a rather ruined chamber, (well, they actually fell into it... blame Conrad).

 

In the fall they narrowly avoid an inert, half-burned body nearby. (You guess it: it was Shepard).

 

Fortunately,   in a rather uncommon moment of good sense, Conrad had taken a moment to grab a rather large pack of medigel from the refugee centre before escaping…and Jenna manage to apply it and stabilize Shepard…

There's a file on the disk with Shepard alive. Don't know the name of the file. Maybe someone can post the correct file name..

 

What does Conrad have to do with what I posted? I was mentioning having a slide showing Shepard with his/her LI.

[KaiserShep]

Silly as it is, Shepard's survival hinging on Conrad's would be pretty glorious in its ridiculousness, and I would embrace it.

[vallore]

I was playing multi-player daily to make sure my readiness stayed at 100% before I entered Battle of London and before I entered the beam. I didn't know anything about it. I just knew that I needed 100% readiness to get the best result. I was on the 360 with a gold account so what the hey. That was why it took so long to finish the game. Plus I was only playing in the evenings.

 

Too bad the MP wasn't made clear for everyone.

 

When I played the vanilla ending I didn’t play the MP either, so I failed to get the scene; when I finally reloaded the ending with the EC and saw the gasp I had to ask, “this is it?”

 

Frankly, at least before that scene I had imagined a less bleak scene as a possible Shepard survival situation; for me the gasp scene only made Shepard’s situation even more desperate. Ah, well, different perspectives and all that.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Interesting, I haven’t read it before… did you mean this?

 

http://forum.bioware...ilers/#12758842

 

 

Imo, considering the words used; the scene, after the EC, is described as meant to give hope, not certainties.(My interpretation: Shepard survived and is still alive - at that moment - if in a rather precarious situation, and because she is still alive, there is hope she may survive and rejoin the LI).

 

Note that I’m not saying that the scene cannot be seen as a “Shepard lives,”  - far from it! – rather, I’m pointing that they kept more than enough ample room for the scene to also mean the opposite, and I believe that is deliberate.

 

Regardless, more importantly is, imo, if the scene was balanced enough to provide a “comfortable” way out for the player to head canon her way out of the situation, whatever the player preference was. Personally I don’t think so and, since I saw a lot of complaints about it, that seems to be the case of a significant part of the audience.

 

You can interpret it that way, but, going by the name of what even BW called it, it was meant to full on show that Shepard survives. Tully Ackland actually personally stated that the Shepard did indeed survive. Everything in that statement confirms Shepard survives. So while you can interpret the scene the way you want (he dies), that doesn't mean it's necessarily correct.

[vallore]

There's a file on the disk with Shepard alive. Don't know the name of the file. Maybe someone can post the correct file name..

 

What does Conrad have to do with what I posted? I was mentioning having a slide showing Shepard with his/her LI.

 

Ah I see it now what file you meant. I’ve heard of t too.  But my interpretation is that the name is more a descriptive  of the moment itself, where Shepard is still alive and may survive. <shrug>

 

 

What does Conrad have to do with what I posted? I was mentioning having a slide showing Shepard with his/her LI.

 

I was trying to light the moment up.   

 

Since you were describing Shepard's survival scene, I -aham - "corrected" you by describing "what actually happened," according to Conrad, (well, Jenna): btw, Shepard never needed to go to the hospital, (even if she became more jumpy than Mordin’s gerbil on caffeine for over a month).

[vallore]

You can interpret it that way, but, going by the name of what even BW called it, it was meant to full on show that Shepard survives. Tully Ackland actually personally stated that the Shepard did indeed survive. Everything in that statement confirms Shepard survives. So while you can interpret the scene the way you want (he dies), that doesn't mean it's necessarily correct.

 

 

Eh, I don’t “want” to interpret it that way, it’s the ending itself that implies - very strongly – that possibility.

 

 "Shepard lives"  is  the name of the ending, it does not mean that it is necessarely the only true possible canonical interpretation intended for it. Since it is the only ending where that can happen, it is a good reason to refer to it in that way for ease of reference, and, I if I may, it sounds much better than saying; "the ending where Shepard may live, or maybe not."

 

And, as I noted, imo,  the rest of the statement is less clear about that than you seem to make  it to be, (but of course I may be wrong): imo, there is a difference between being alive in a given moment and necessarily surviving; otherwise why not just saying "Shepard will rejoin her LI" instead of saying "there is hope" that she does?

 

Besides, what really matters is that even if it was their intent that Shepard was to necessarely survive, they picked a rather ambiguous manner of doing it so; otherwise there would be no unsatisfied players complaining about how unsatisfying that scene was.

[dreamgazer]

Word of God.

[vallore]

Word of God.

 

yep, I have posted it in an earlier post this thread; the relevant bit is:

 

A memorial scene was added, partly to show a close bond between Shepard and the love interest. The scene is variable, and if Shepard has a love interest in a given playthrough, it will be that character who places Shepard’s name on the memorial wall.

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

 

Like I said, considering the ambiguity of the breath scene, all we factually know from it is that Shepard is alive at that moment. Now the LI scene does reinforces the hope of the breath scene, but note  "there is hope"  argument was used here, not “will rejoin.” Imo there was a reason for it.

[dreamgazer]

"... and the final scene reveals they are correct."

 

Not a whole lot of room for interpretation there. 

[Iakus]

The executive producer's intent - Hudson's - was that if you gathered enough resources Shepard would survive the destroy ending. That is why the breath scene got put in there in the first place. There was no ambiguity.... until the troll at SDCC.

 

I played the original ending on March 22nd 2012. I chose Destroy. I got the breath scene. My first reaction was: "Phew, survived." The feeling of emptiness was the aftermath... the mass relays were destroyed. I'd never see Liara again, or any of my team. I knew Liara, Javik and Joker made it. Was anyone else still alive? How would the Turians, Asari, and Quarians get home? What about the Krogan?

 

It was definite that Shepard survived high EMS destroy, otherwise there was no purpose for the scene.

 

Funny, though, how not once since that event has anyone on Bioware stated "Shepard lives" in that ending.  They all closed ranks around the "ambiguous" nature of the scene.

 

I mean seriously, would ut have been too hard to rework the scene to be this in EC?

[dreamgazer]

Funny, though, how not once since that event has anyone on Bioware stated "Shepard lives" in that ending.  They all closed ranks around the "ambiguous" nature of the scene.

 

Probably because they've already presented an official, structured Word of God on the situation, one that isn't circumvented by "trolling". 

[Br3admax]

Have you considered the possibility that BioWare didn't want to make Shepard surviving so cut and dry, and wanted to leave it open for interpretation? 

[vallore]

"... and the final scene reveals they are correct."

 

Not a whole lot of room for interpretation there. 

 

Yes Shepard survives the blast; there is no room for interpretation there; we see her broken, gasping body later. but will Shepard survives her wounds? "There is hope" she does, isn't there?  
 

[dreamgazer]

Yes Shepard survives the blast; there is no room for interpretation there; we see her broken, gasping body later. but will Shepard survives her wounds? "There is hope" she does, isn't there?  

 

 

 

 

Meh.

[KaiserShep]

Cyborgs can take a hell of a beating. Ryncol and batarian poison didn't kill Shep, so all is good.

[Iakus]

Probably because they've already presented an official, structured Word of God on the situation, one that isn't circumvented by "trolling". 

 

So present it again.  Don't back the troll's word.

 

Have you considered the possibility that BioWare didn't want to make Shepard surviving so cut and dry, and wanted to leave it open for interpretation? 

 

Well, except all the endings where Shepard dies are pretty cut and dried.  Why not leave that open to interpretation too?

[dreamgazer]

So present it again.  Don't back the troll's word.

 
It's still there, in black and white, for easy reference.  Always has been.

Well, except all the endings where Shepard dies are pretty cut and dried.  Why not leave that open to interpretation too?

Shepard could rediscover his/her consciousness in the machine for Control, and his/her consciousness could be recreated through networked memories/history and placed in a synthetic body in Synthesis. Bam, ambiguity.

[KaiserShep]

How do you make an ambiguous death in that scenario?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Eh, I don’t “want” to interpret it that way, it’s the ending itself that implies - very strongly – that possibility.

 

 "Shepard lives"  is  the name of the ending, it does not mean that it is necessarely the only true possible canonical interpretation intended for it. Since it is the only ending where that can happen, it is a good reason to refer to it in that way for ease of reference, and, I if I may, it sounds much better than saying; "the ending where Shepard may live, or maybe not."

 

And, as I noted, imo,  the rest of the statement is less clear about that than you seem to make  it to be, (but of course I may be wrong): imo, there is a difference between being alive in a given moment and necessarily surviving; otherwise why not just saying "Shepard will rejoin her LI" instead of saying "there is hope" that she does?

 

Besides, what really matters is that even if it was their intent that Shepard was to necessarely survive, they picked a rather ambiguous manner of doing it so; otherwise there would be no unsatisfied players complaining about how unsatisfying that scene was.

 

Because saying 'Shepard will rejoin his LI' is rather dull-sounding, unromantic, and not dramatic. 

 

Seriously, word of god is (from more than just that link) that Shepard is meant to 100% survive high-ems Destroy. You can interpret it the other way, but to BW (despite what Priestly said, and as an aside, I really want to say some pretty harsh things about him but won't), it's clear that Shepard lives

[Daemul]

Shepard could rediscover his/her consciousness in the machine for Control,

Eh, I'm pretty sure that this is exactly what happens in Control. Shepard uploads his consciousness into the Reapers, exactly like what the Virtual Aliens did when they uploaded their consciousnesses into supercomputers that housed the Virtual World they had created. They could even swap consciousnesses with other sentient beings and control their bodies.

The difference with Shepard is, he now has the unlimited knowledge of past cycles and is now immortal, meaning that he will gain a new perspective and see things in a way that no organic could , leading to him to most likely go the way of Dr Manhattan.

Shepard's transformation into an AI God was eerily similar to Jon Ostermans transformation into Dr Manhattan in Watchmen, with blue sparks of electricity destroying their bodies.

On the Breath Scene, it really doesn't bother me. I don't care about Shepard or the rest of the characters, all all I care about is stopping the Reapers. Maybe if I actually gave a damn about some of the characters in the game I would feel differently, but I never get attached to video game characters due to their shallowness and how poorly they are written, so that's never going to happen.

[KaiserShep]

Wait, all video game characters are shallow and poorly written?

[vallore]

 

 

 

Meh.

 

And?

 

 What about the organic 70% of Shepard’s body? Are they also immune to trauma and heat that would dwarf an atomic blast?

 

And if she is fine, why does she look like an overdone road kill barbecue?

 

Besides, didn’t the catalyst imply something about Shepard’s cybernetic bits could also be affected by the red beam? (or was that just in the vanilla ending?)

 

Again I think I have to say this: the point I’m making is not  that Shepard cannot survive, rather that can also be easily be assumed she can die  in that ending, (regardless of that being what the player wants).  And I'm sorry but the" Word of God" is by no means limitative regarding that point. It is just your interpretation of it that it is.

[dreamgazer]

Eh, I'm pretty sure that this is exactly what happens in Control. Shepard uploads his consciousness into the Reapers, exactly like what the Virtual Aliens did when they uploaded their consciousnesses into supercomputers that housed the Virtual World they had created. They could even swap consciousnesses with other sentient beings and control their bodies.

The difference with Shepard is, he now has the unlimited knowledge of past cycles and is now immortal, meaning that he will gain a new perspective and see things in a way that no organic could , leading to him to most likely go the way of Dr Manhattan.

I don't disagree, but I also think it depends on how the Shepard consciousness would choose to handle the galaxy's civilization climate shifts, and how their digital replication would embrace cosmic oversight from a distance. Hence, why a more organic persona could reemerge from the synthetic. Paragon and renegade versions of Control are indicative of this being possible.

[KaiserShep]

And?

 

 What about the organic 70% of Shepard’s body? Are they also immune to trauma and heat that would dwarf an atomic blast?

 

And if she is fine, why does she look like an overdone road kill barbecue?

 

Besides, didn’t the catalyst imply something about Shepard’s cybernetic bits could also be affected by the red beam? (or was that just in the vanilla ending?)

 

Again I think I have to say this: the point I’m making is not  that Shepard cannot survive, rather that can also be easily be assumed she can die  in that ending, (regardless of that being what the player wants).  And I'm sorry but the" Word of God" is by no means limitative regarding that point. It is just your interpretation of it that it is.

 

I guess there's no real point in arguing over the details of the final sequence regarding Shepard's survival or death, because lots of things don't make sense in the series anyhow. Shepard's body should not have been salvageable after the Collector attack, yet it was. Anyone using just a flimsy breather mask in thin atmospheres should have pesky issues like blood vessels hemorrhaging in their eyeballs. Guess not.

 

The catalyst says a lot of stuff. Shepard's cybernetics? No biggie. Garrus, who is also augmented by cybernetics after the gunship battle on Omega, seems right as rain regardless.

 

Whether or not one believes Shepard shouldn't be able to survive doesn't matter, because he/she basically does anyway. Shepard cannot survive a direct hit from a reaper...but here we are. Trying to apply lots of logic to the overly dramatic imagery of the cut scenes never really goes well.

[dreamgazer]

What about the organic 70% of Shepard’s body? Are they also immune to trauma and heat that would dwarf an atomic blast?

Immune? No. Resistant? Obviously, yes. And while the initial tube-popping blast affected Shepard, there's no telling what happened after that. For instance, a biotic Shepard could lift a ME2-esque bubble to shield the damage from a safer vantage point, or some other damage-cushioning answer for the other classes. Clearly wasn't enough to kill, though I'm far from a fan of how they telegraphed this point.
 

And if she is fine, why does she look like an overdone road kill barbecue?

The armor in the breath scene actually looks no different than it did following Harbinger's blast and in the decision chamber.


 

Besides, didn’t the catalyst imply something about Shepard’s cybernetic bits could also be affected by the red beam? (or was that just in the vanilla ending?)

It did, and then Shepard took a breath of life. Oooooops.
 

Again I think I have to say this: the point I’m making is not  that Shepard cannot survive, rather that can also be easily be assumed she can die  in that ending, (regardless of that being what the player wants).  And I'm sorry but the" Word of God" is by no means limitative regarding that point. It is just your interpretation of it that it is.

Do you honestly believe BioWare presented the breath scene, the most difficult thing to obtain in the game, as a depiction of the last gasp before Shepard's death? But yeah, if you want to interpret it that way in the face of a structured Word of God and very obvious authorial intent, go for it.
 

I guess there's no real point in arguing over the details of the final sequence regarding Shepard's survival or death, because lots of things don't make sense in the series anyhow. Shepard's body should not have been salvageable after the Collector attack, yet it was. Anyone using just a flimsy breather mask in thin atmospheres should have pesky issues like blood vessels hemorrhaging in their eyeballs. Guess not.
 
The catalyst says a lot of stuff. Shepard's cybernetics? No biggie. Garrus, who is also augmented by cybernetics after the gunship battle on Omega, seems right as rain regardless.

Ding, ding, ding.