202 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

@dreamgazer. Yeah he's very good at assumptions that Hack guy. "Someone made it to the Citadel" Well that's obviously Shepard then. Never mind that Anderson made the trip around the same time

 

"Holy sh--t, s/he did it."  Changes with Shepard's gender.

[vallore]

1. No, the original point was that there was so little to go on, people could only use logic and say Shepard died. The fact is, using logic isn't reliable. It had nothing to do with closure. More to do with how to make a logical conclusion, which doesn't help here. 

2. Using broad generalizations is generally the wrong thing to do. Humans need visual stimuli for ever single situation like humans need french fries to go with every hamburger. 

 

You do realize I wrote the original post you answered?

 

That was the point, trust me; the bit you speak of is just part of it, I just elaborate and explained further the why.

 

Sometimes, the fries are the only thing that makes the hamburger palatable.

 

Shepard not burning up in atmosphere wasn't beyond belief, but Shepard doing it again is, this time, with them for the time being, alive and breathing? 

Shepard stopped being believable 2 1/2 years before ME3 even began.

 

That is not what I meant; rather both scenes are equally unlikely to the point of not being believable. It is like a million in one event; it can happen, but it’s so improbable that it requires it to be seen to actually feel it happened.

 

 

Shepard is alive when they shouldn't be. Nothing suggests that they are in any immediate danger. Everyone around is hopeful. It's as grounded as anything else.

 

There is no immediate danger? She is dying, of injury and blood loss! The stations she is in a mess, the inhabitants likely decimated by the reapers and the explosion, who knows if life support will last or if it is still working... No one is there to help her, no one even know if she is alive or where she is, the ships who were monitoring her retreated out of the system, remember?

 

The fact is, Shepard didn't survive before, and yet they were still able to come out of it alive. Mass Effect is the universe of many incredible feats becoming reality despite it making no logical sense. This time Shepard is definitely breathing, and to assume that they could not because of logic is faulty. Logic doesn't help you in Mass Effect so unless someone tells you no, believe whatever you want.

 

Believing there can be a way out is not enough; it must be felt as a credible way out, or be visualy presented as a reasonble enough way out.

 

You seem to be OK with it because you believe the scene to be plausible; therefore you have no difficulty to headcanon your way out.

[KaiserShep]

I don't see why Shepard would be hard to find on the Citadel. He/She is under a humongous mass effect bubble between the Citadel and the Crucible, the only converging point between the station and the superweapon. It's no different from the penetrable fields that keep the atmosphere in that we see in other places, like:

 

-The Normandy's cargo bay (let's not forget also that the Normandy can erect a field similar to a sealing bulkhead between the bridge and the rest of the ship, as shown in ME2's prologue)

-The Derelict Reaper

-The entire Citadel docking ring

-The T-GES Mineral Works mining facility

-Menae: The atmosphere of Palaven's moon is maintained artificially

[DeinonSlayer]

I don't see why Shepard would be hard to find on the Citadel. He/She is under a humongous mass effect bubble between the Citadel and the Crucible, the only converging point between the station and the superweapon. It's no different from the penetrable fields that keep the atmosphere in that we see in other places, like:
 
-The Normandy's cargo bay (let's not forget also that the Normandy can erect a field similar to a sealing bulkhead between the bridge and the rest of the ship, as shown in ME2's prologue)
-The Derelict Reaper
-The entire Citadel docking ring
-The T-GES Mineral Works mining facility
-Menae: The atmosphere of Palaven's moon is maintained artificially

You'd think the generators maintaining that mass effect field on Menae would be the very first thing the Reapers targeted.

Oops! The entire garrison just got spaced.

[KaiserShep]

I was thinking that as well. Frankly I try not to think too hard about the entire Menae sequence, because the reapers could very well just glass Menae and move on to harvesting Palaven.

[Battlebloodmage]

Realshep plummets from space to an unknown planet = survive

Cloneshep Plummet down from a some hundred feet tall = death

[vallore]

I don't see why Shepard would be hard to find on the Citadel. He/She is under a humongous mass effect bubble between the Citadel and the Crucible, the only converging point between the station and the superweapon. It's no different from the penetrable fields that keep the atmosphere in that we see in other places, like:

 

-The Normandy's cargo bay (let's not forget also that the Normandy can erect a field similar to a sealing bulkhead between the bridge and the rest of the ship, as shown in ME2's prologue)

-The Derelict Reaper

-The entire Citadel docking ring

-The T-GES Mineral Works mining facility

-Menae: The atmosphere of Palaven's moon is maintained artificially

The difference being that a huge explosion just ravaged part of the station; how affected where the life support systems, will the bubble you speak of maintain integrity? Will Shepard run out of time before anyone can get to her?

 

The difference is a matter of viewpoint; some players are by nature more optimist, and the option that all will go well feels right. Others won’t. BW itself does not provide ingame facts one way or the other.

[dreamgazer]

The difference being that a huge explosion just ravaged part of the station; how affected where the life support systems, will the bubble you speak of maintain integrity? Will Shepard run out of time before anyone can get to her?

 

The difference is a matter of viewpoint; some players are by nature more optimist, and the option that all will go well feels right. Others won’t. BW itself does not provide ingame facts one way or the other.

 

Except for the gasp of breath after moments of prolonged stillness.  Wouldn't be possible with demolished life-support and barrier systems. 

[KaiserShep]

Realshep plummets from space to an unknown planet = survive

Cloneshep Plummet down from a some hundred feet tall = death

Well, technically the former is not true.

[vallore]

I was thinking that as well. Frankly I try not to think too hard about the entire Menae sequence, because the reapers could very well just glass Menae and move on to harvesting Palaven.

 

Who knows, perhaps the generators were built so deep under the surface that not even the Reaper main guns can reach them.

[KaiserShep]

The difference being that a huge explosion just ravaged part of the station; how affected where the life support systems, will the bubble you speak of maintain integrity? Will Shepard run out of time before anyone can get to her?

 

The difference is a matter of viewpoint; some players are by nature more optimist, and the option that all will go well feels right. Others won’t. BW itself does not provide ingame facts one way or the other.

 

 

The question of whether or not the bubble will hold is about the same as the question asking whether or not a piece of debris will just strike that very spot after the credits roll. We don't know. It could happen, but unless it does in the view of the player, I don't consider it to be an event that occurs at all.

 

I've admitted in the past that the image is simply not very satisfying, and I guess the fact that there are still arguments about what it means kind of supports that, but a few seconds just to show a last gasp has about as much a point as remaking Tommy Wisea's The Room, especially when this same ending varies between showing this scene and simply having the memorial play out as planned with no reveal. But I suppose you're right; it is a matter of one's viewpoint, and if one wishes to interpret it as being the last image of Shepard right before death, then that's certainly their prerogative. I will maintain, however, that the image is meant to signify survival, otherwise the writers wouldn't have bothered having two versions of the memorial sequence along with it in the Extended Cut. I mean, what are they doing then? Are they teasing us? Are they being trolls? Do they feed off of the energy of our collective bemusement?

[KaiserShep]

Who knows, perhaps the generators were built so deep under the surface that not even the Reaper main guns can reach them.

 

Thing is, if you read the codex on certain parts of the reaper war, they reach all sorts of places with no problem. On Earth, the reapers severed the deep see cabling that comprises the communications network between continents.

[vallore]

Except for the gasp of breath after moments of prolonged stillness.  Wouldn't be possible with demolished life-support and barrier systems. 

 

I was saying that, with the beating the station took, it is possible that the bubble generators could eventually fail; not that they had already failed.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, technically the former is not true.

What's not true?

[KaiserShep]

What's not true?

 

Shepard didn't survive the fall. The dialogue gets kind of confused on this point, because sometimes a character says that Shepard survived the Normandy's destruction, and other times they make it clear that he/she was dead.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Funny, though, how not once since that event has anyone on Bioware stated "Shepard lives" in that ending.  They all closed ranks around the "ambiguous" nature of the scene.

 

I mean seriously, would ut have been too hard to rework the scene to be this in EC?

 

 

The first part fine. But the next? No, because it doesn't make any sense. The crew hardly knew Anderson. Why all the glum faces? Shepard, maybe, but only if Shepard and Anderson were close friends and I didn't get that from the entire series. More of a relationship between officer and CO. And especially after seeing the comic where Anderson brings in Shepard for trial.

 

If I recall, Casey Hudson originally wanted the more optimistic hand grab at the end that was put in the latest version ot MEHEM as the rescue except pulling Shepard out of the rubble, and that was how it was going to end. Mac didn't want it, and they settled on the breath scene.

[Barquiel]

Thing is, if you read the codex on certain parts of the reaper war, they reach all sorts of places with no problem. On Earth, the reapers severed the deep see cabling that comprises the communications network between continents.

We know the reapers have problems with a few planets..but it was never mentioned that Menae is somehow special, of course.

Agessia: Rife with volcanic activity and scorched by the nearby orange star Nahuala, Agessia is an unforgiving and ever-shifting puzzle box of a planet. Ceaseless solar winds and magnetic bombardment have thinned Agessia's atmosphere, but these features are actually a boon in wartime. Powerful magnetic fields and large quantities of airborne volcanic ash make many forms of scanning difficult, allowing the asari to hide valuable palladium and molybdenum mines needed for the war effort. Agessia's sheltered underground colonies remain untouched by the Reapers, at least for the moment.
 

[Deager]

@PunMaster

 

I happened to listen to quite a few Citadel DLC lines and I do think the Citadel DLC does support the idea of Shep surviving the destroy ending. As for the clone, I don't think the clone is there to fuel the idea of Shep surviving since s/he was Cerberus and not Alliance.

 

But, the fun with fiction is you can interpret it for yourself and enjoy the story.

[AlanC9]

 

If I recall, Casey Hudson originally wanted the more optimistic hand grab at the end that was put in the latest version ot MEHEM as the rescue except pulling Shepard out of the rubble, and that was how it was going to end. Mac didn't want it, and they settled on the breath scene.

 

You got a source for that? It seems reasonable, but I don't remember hearing this from anyplace definitive.

[AlanC9]

I was saying that, with the beating the station took, it is possible that the bubble generators could eventually fail; not that they had already failed.

 

If you want to make up hypothetical ways for Shepard to possibly die after the game ends, that's fine. Nobody's stopping you; the scene's designed to let you believe that Shepard dies if you want to believe that. But they're just hypotheticals. There's no indication that those generators are about to fail.

[AlanC9]

I wouldn't consider the clone plot itself, the thing purportedly cut from ME2 (not the squad interaction, the new hub, or everything else celebrated from the DLC pack), to be "the best content of ME3". Not by a long shot. It's a lot of schlocky fun, but also problematic if you think too hard about it.

 

Maybe I should replace my current sig with the italed. It's pithier.

[vallore]

The question of whether or not the bubble will hold is about the same as the question asking whether or not a piece of debris will just strike that very spot after the credits roll. We don't know. It could happen, but unless it does in the view of the player, I don't consider it to be an event that occurs at all.

 

Eh, I have that very same problem, but with Shepard’s recue.

 

I've admitted in the past that the image is simply not very satisfying, and I guess the fact that there are still arguments about what it means kind of supports that, but a few seconds just to show a last gasp has about as much a point as remaking Tommy Wisea's The Room, especially when this same ending varies between showing this scene and simply having the memorial play out as planned with no reveal. But I suppose you're right; it is a matter of one's viewpoint, and if one wishes to interpret it as being the last image of Shepard right before death, then that's certainly their prerogative. I will maintain, however, that the image is meant to signify survival, otherwise the writers wouldn't have bothered having two versions of the memorial sequence along with it in the Extended Cut. I mean, what are they doing then? Are they teasing us? Are they being trolls? Do they feed off of the energy of our collective bemusement?

 

 

I personally believe it may have been a compromise between two opinions going around back then; “Shepard must die” and “Shepard should survive in at least one ending.” This way, both groups would, in theory, get their option in the same ending. Now am I right? Who knows? I certainly don’t.

 

 I just think it makes sense, considering the ambiguousness I see in that ending and the number of people who perceive it differently from the supposed intention.

 

Thing is, if you read the codex on certain parts of the reaper war, they reach all sorts of places with no problem. On Earth, the reapers severed the deep see cabling that comprises the communications network between continents.

 

I was thinking that, since it is a moon, there is a good chance that the core is no longer molten. This means that the turians could dig not just 4-5,000m, but really go deeper into the moon, possibly as a measure guarantee the survival of the generators against an enemy dropping asteroids?

[vallore]

If you want to make up hypothetical ways for Shepard to possibly die after the game ends, that's fine. Nobody's stopping you; the scene's designed to let you believe that Shepard dies if you want to believe that. But they're just hypotheticals. There's no indication that those generators are about to fail.

 

yes, precisely, the scene was left ambiguous, The only remark I would make is that it is not just a matter of what the player wants, but also a matter what it seems likely, from each player perspective.

[sveners]

The question of whether or not the bubble will hold is about the same as the question asking whether or not a piece of debris will just strike that very spot after the credits roll. We don't know. It could happen, but unless it does in the view of the player, I don't consider it to be an event that occurs at all.

 

I've admitted in the past that the image is simply not very satisfying, and I guess the fact that there are still arguments about what it means kind of supports that, but a few seconds just to show a last gasp has about as much a point as remaking Tommy Wisea's The Room, especially when this same ending varies between showing this scene and simply having the memorial play out as planned with no reveal. But I suppose you're right; it is a matter of one's viewpoint, and if one wishes to interpret it as being the last image of Shepard right before death, then that's certainly their prerogative. I will maintain, however, that the image is meant to signify survival, otherwise the writers wouldn't have bothered having two versions of the memorial sequence along with it in the Extended Cut. I mean, what are they doing then? Are they teasing us? Are they being trolls? Do they feed off of the energy of our collective bemusement?

 

I agree with much of what you say. But honestly, why even say it's a matter of ones wishes? I don't want to believe the last image I see of Shepard is her death. I just don't see any other way. I don't want her to die. That should be perfectly obvious. Why even say that's a matter of choice? It's not.

 

And to be frank. In my case it does probably have to do with how BioWare decided to handle the first "outbreak". I was never among the loud, demanding, or extremely vocal. But I was certainly among those hit by snide remarks, passive aggressive comments, and hostile treatment. Not personally, but seen it happen. I also know human nature. We go on the defensive when criticized. Usually.

I think BioWare did exactly this. Provide EC treatment to show how wonderful the universe will be without Shepard. That seems to be the recurring theme.

 

To an eye unobstructed by sentiment. Synthesis is the most fantastic choice of all. The writers (catalyst) downright tells us its the right choice. And upon choosing it we get a utopia of joy and hope for the future. At the cost of guaranteed death of Shepard.

 

Want some semblance of Shepard? Okay, Control it is. It's definitely not Shepard, but it has her memories and "moral compass" to guide the Reapers.

 

Want to keep Shepard alive? Despite learning that the Reapers are benign and contain the collected knowledge of cycles past? That the Synthetic/organic holocaust will inevitably occur again? That the EDI, and the Geth will all die if you do this? Okay fine.... you get a half second snapshop of a torso drawing breath....

 

And as a bonus, the Citadel also gets disintegrated in Destroy. Just because we are so hostile to BioWare's "right" choice and choose to keep our hero alive. Or in my case, try to.

 

 

 

And here my friends is a post that happens when family is gone, you're alone at the computer and with nothing better to do I blame Holland for being boring. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

[AlanC9]

yes, precisely, the scene was left ambiguous, The only remark I would make is that it is not just a matter of what the player wants, but also a matter what it seems likely, from each player perspective.

 

Only if the player is a fool.