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I see no problem with Cullen (as a romance option) being an advisor rather than a companion. We have no basis for saying that it's going to be an inferior romance simply for that reason.
Also, yeah, pointing to one or two female heroes as equal representation is really... deceptive. It's not. An exception here or there doesn't mean we suddenly have nothing to complain about.
We're talking about a company that wants to market to women and men. We're talking about how to keep happy customers. We're talking about not just romances but the importance of losing your reality but keeping some component of "you" in that world.
I think that the excitment of being able to finally open up the playing field to disenfranchised groups has momentum and sometimes other players get lost in the mix.
For the romances, having a non-companion as your romantic interest is ****. You wouldn't like it if Dorian, the gay character, was a non companion but the bisexuals were.
Having an NPC character isn't great, but I think your pretense is ridiculous. You didn't even wait until it was confirmed the last male was bisexual before complaining women are getting a worse deal than gay men. For all either of us know, they are straight and you're getting more options. All remaining options may be guys and you could be getting more options than anyone. That could easily happen right now. Straight women got the most options in DA2.
I also can't help but roll my eyes when you say gay men are being favored and also say it's "just like mass effect". The game series where gay men didn't have a romance at all until the last game and one was an NPC. 
I will support your claim that everyone should get equal options, I'm totally for that. I'll even say that I hope no one gets an NPC exclusive romance again. But when you start acting indignant because in one game ever you might get equal or questionably less options than gay men, it means there's been some major trespass against you and you're being overshadowed by gay rights, I'm going to think you're being absurd. Your complaints ring hollow when you dramatize them because the truth is that your representation, as a heterosexual female, is no where near as invisible as a gay male (or a lesbian). Just look at Mass Effect as a whole and that's obvious. We're not in the same boat and we never have been. I want you to get equal options and I've always been vocal for that, but the way you frame your argument is insulting.
We're getting Cullen and Iron Bull (and probably one more dude out of Blackwall, Solas and Varric.) I know I said this already, but I don't think there's anything to complain about here.
If you object to romancing an NPC for whatever reason, Iron Bull is right there. Come #ridethebull with us!
Why is it not widely known? Because it was rare.
Ultima is also a bit of an odd case there, since they removed the option to play as a woman in Ultima 8 (even though it's continuing with the 'same' character from where U7 Part 2, where you could be a woman, left off). I've wondered since I found out about that what the response to it at the time was.
In Mass Effect as a straight female one of the very possible scenarios was having no love interest at all. Yes or no? Yes, right? Ok. Women are 1/2 the population of the world, slightly more. We also make up a large gaming majority. Is this respectful to leave us out? No.
As far as tastes being subjective, I semi-reject that because you don't see someone who looks like Steve Buscemi as the romantic lead in a movie, do you?
There are general guidelines of what is attractive and what is not.
I would as a game design company try to be as inclusive as possible as to make as much money as possible. I would cater to people's desires because I want to make more money. These games are awesome but they are not literary fiction like The Hours or The Secret Life of Bees. They are nerd porn.
Why not try and cater to nerds? And if so, why not be considerate of a larger population of nerds: women.
I'm talking about Dragon Age not Mass Effect. I have said elsewhere that Mass Effect was a failure for straight women both as long time players (having Garrus and Kaidan as LI were the only ones given any real time) and for new players who got only Kaidan, who may or may not have been to their taste. As far as I can see Dragon Age has done much better on this front, and this is the game we're talking about, yes? So I say again, just because you don't like what you get doesn't mean it's not there.
And you dare bag Steve Buscemi? He's god-damn awesome.
Oh and who's general 'guidelines' are you talking about? Because from what I know to have been shown about levels of attractiveness it's more likely a case of 'averages' as to what is actually attractive (symmetric faces, who your parents were, your culture, and a whole load of other things in between) It's fairly obvious to me that we have differing tastes so again don't conflate the two, your choices exist, just because you don't like those choices doesn't mean that they aren't there (I'm really not sure how many times I have to say this.)
Nerd porn? Really? *not sure if serious* 
Why is it not widely known? Because it was rare.
Ultima is also a bit of an odd case there, since they removed the option to play as a woman in Ultima 8 (even though it's continuing with the 'same' character from where U7 Part 2, where you could be a woman, left off). I've wondered since I found out about that what the response to it at the time was.
Having an NPC character isn't great, but I think your pretense is ridiculous. You didn't even wait until it was confirmed the last male was bisexual before complaining women are getting a worse deal than gay men. For all either of us know, they are straight and you're getting more options. All remaining options may be guys and you could be getting more options than anyone. That could easily happen right now. Straight women got the most options in DA2.
I also can't help but roll my eyes when you say gay men are being favored and also say it's "just like mass effect". The game series where gay men didn't have a romance at all until the last game and one was an NPC.
I will support your claim that everyone should get equal options, I'm totally for that. I'll even say that I hope no one gets an NPC exclusive romance again. But when you start acting indignant because in one game ever you might get equal or questionably less options than gay men, it means there's been some major trespass against you and you're being overshadowed by gay rights, I'm going to think you're being absurd. Your complaints ring hollow when you dramatize them because the truth is that your representation, as a heterosexual female, is no where near as invisible as a gay male (or a lesbian). Just look at Mass Effect as a whole and that's obvious. We're not in the same boat and we never have been. I want you to get equal options and I've always been vocal for that, but the way you frame your argument is insulting.
I said that males have been favored, and they have. You get to be the heroes. You get usually better back stories. You get better armor. You've gotten cooler weapons. You get hotter characters (mostly because of software limitation on hair), but males which you are (gay men are men) have always had things better in gaming.
Most of the games don't have romances. Bioware is different, so you have always had more representation because you have a penis between your legs.
Because companies like Bioware are trying to "do the right thing" (which is great because most aren't) they are careful not to make the gay male characters anything less than whatever warrior the straight guys get. There are no gay caricatures (maybe Wade but he's a NPC) and you're treated just the same. Lesbians not so much. This is the same in comic books. They get tagged with the same voluptuous sex kitten or pixie waif. What possible good does large boobs do for Wonder Woman? Isabella's boobs would have fallen right out of her blouse.
And as far as sexuality goes, I am in a heterosexual relationship, but I have not always been in one and I'll leave it at that. What I am now is dependent upon who I am with. I am heterosexual now. I don't believe people are gay or straight, but are "mostly" something. I think Kinsey was right, but that's another story and not fit for this board.
And, yes, I'm sorry but whether it was bunker PR on DAII or not, some of the wording coming out of Bioware in regards to inclusiveness comes from a male POV.
It's not Sera that if you go to Google and search on DA Inquisition and "news" that you read about, it's Dorian. It will say Dorian is the first "legitimately gay" character aside from Sera. Which to me is says a lot, that lesbians are not really gay or something.
This idea that lesbianism is attractive and favored by straight guys, I think, has a lot to do with the females looks in these stories. It's also why people think that you can treat lesbians like straight guys, indistinguishable, is why they don't have to talk about how excited they are to provide gay characters "finally" in spite of the fact that there have been lesbians in these games.
Women are used to playing guys so if we want to romance a female, its par for the course. You let guys have to play a female and they whine about it. We've done it to the point of not thinking about it anymore.
Right now, Bioware is excited about being able to include gay characters (as they should be) and still make money. This must be a relief for gay writers and developers. Awesome. But while they're fleshing out these great gay characters for men and talking about it, it would be nice if they think about 1/2 of the gaming population that pays as much money as all the guys combined with fewer options.
And I'm sorry that you feel insulted but at least you didn't pay money to read this post.
Depends on what you call rare?
http://www.giantbomb...015-2287/games/
This is a collection of games that have a female main character or the ability to choose female as the main character. They range from release dates into next year all the way back to the early 80's, from the extremely popular to the insanely obscure. It is a 26 page article that easily has over 1,000 titles and I'm not even sure if it 100% complete.
Now... were these games advertised well? Or were their options that you could be a female advertised? Likely not... although video game advertising was much smaller and lower scale a couple deacdes who than it is today. But the option has existed... it just, for whatever reason, never penetrated largely into a large potential female gamer market.
These are like the $5 games that they churn out weekly on BigFish.
Ok.
I said that males have been favored, and they have. You get to be the heroes. You get usually better back stories. You get better armor. You've gotten cooler weapons. You get hotter characters (mostly because of software limitation on hair), but males which you are (gay men are men) have always had things better in gaming.
Most of the games don't have romances. Bioware is different, so you have always had more representation because you have a penis between your legs.
Because companies like Bioware are trying to "do the right thing" (which is great because most aren't) they are careful not to make the gay male characters anything less than whatever warrior the straight guys get. There are no gay caricatures (maybe Wade but he's a NPC) and you're treated just the same. Lesbians not so much. This is the same in comic books. They get tagged with the same voluptuous sex kitten or pixie waif. What possible good does large boobs do for Wonder Woman? Isabella's boobs would have fallen right out of her blouse.
And as far as sexuality goes, I am in a heterosexual relationship, but I have not always been in one and I'll leave it at that. What I am now is dependent upon who I am with. I am heterosexual now. I don't believe people are gay or straight, but are "mostly" something. I think Kinsey was right, but that's another story and not fit for this board.
And, yes, I'm sorry but whether it was bunker PR on DAII or not, some of the wording coming out of Bioware in regards to inclusiveness comes from a male POV.
It's not Sera that if you go to Google and search on DA Inquisition and "news" that you read about, it's Dorian. It will say Dorian is the first "legitimately gay" character aside from Sera. Which to me is says a lot, that lesbians are not really gay or something.
This idea that lesbianism is attractive and favored by straight guys, I think, has a lot to do with the females looks in these stories. It's also why people think that you can treat lesbians like straight guys, indistinguishable, is why they don't have to talk about how excited they are to provide gay characters "finally" in spite of the fact that there have been lesbians in these games.
Women are used to playing guys so if we want to romance a female, its par for the course. You let guys have to play a female and they whine about it. We've done it to the point of not thinking about it anymore.
Right now, Bioware is excited about being able to include gay characters (as they should be) and still make money. This must be a relief for gay writers and developers. Awesome. But while they're fleshing out these great gay characters for men and talking about it, it would be nice if they think about 1/2 of the gaming population that pays as much money as all the guys combined with fewer options.
And I'm sorry that you feel insulted but at least you didn't pay money to read this post.
I would give a lot to be able to play females in my games no matter what thier sexsuallity is. Is that some form of men privilege?
I think that many gay guys and strait female might be intersted in this video:
These are like the $5 games that they churn out weekly on BigFish.
Ok.
I am a straight female and my opinion is,that the Gaming Industry has come a long way.I can now play as a woman and have different romance options available.And Bioware tries to make sure there is something available to everyone.
We don't even know the characters personalities yet.Who knows some of the options that some people don't like as of right now,may change their minds later,after getting to know the characters in more depth.
And like Allan said there are a couple more romance options,that have not been revealed yet.
I'm not convinced that the advisor romances are going to be inferior, so I think that the concerns about inequity are premature. Perhaps they are worse/less/inferior, but we won't know for sure until we play it.
As of right now, I see a 2/2/2 split with even options for everyone. I also see 75% of the remaining companion romance options being men. So it is almost certainly guaranteed that straight females will be getting at least one more race-gated companion romance. It's also very possible that lesbians will be another option if Vivienne is bisexual. It's also conceivable that straight females might be getting two race-gated options if they are both males.
From a numbers perspective, I don't see how DA: I is treating straight females any worse than anyone else.
I see no problem with Cullen (as a romance option) being an advisor rather than a companion. We have no basis for saying that it's going to be an inferior romance simply for that reason.
Also, yeah, pointing to one or two female heroes as equal representation is really... deceptive. It's not. An exception here or there doesn't mean we suddenly have nothing to complain about.
It's only an inferior romance if you see not being able to take them with you as a bad thing.
But in other respects Cullen or Josephine might actually be a more interesting romance than the companions. The level of content (including romantic content) is the same; the devs have already confirmed this. Advisors even get banter in Skyhold, and can appear around the world - including at Inquisition campsites - when they have plot content.
We know advisors can be sent on missions; but nothing's been said about companions having that option. We know that advisors have defined roles in the Inquisition - as a general, diplomat or spymaster, which isn't something that can be said for another other LI.
There's also considerable scope for the romantic stories of the advisors to tie into their story roles, as incredibly powerful people in a new organisation, grappling with a problem that might end the world.
I think expecting Cullen to be disappointing isn't showing much faith in BW doing two things: 1. delivering a fair and reasonably equal experience for every LI 2. responding effectively to criticism of ME3's NPC romances.
And, yes, I'm sorry but whether it was bunker PR on DAII or not, some of the wording coming out of Bioware in regards to inclusiveness comes from a male POV.
It's not Sera that if you go to Google and search on DA Inquisition and "news" that you read about, it's Dorian. It will say Dorian is the first "legitimately gay" character aside from Sera. Which to me is says a lot, that lesbians are not really gay or something.
This is RIDICULOUS.
How is it Bioware's fault if media sites focus more on the gay character reveal than the lesbian one? They didn't issue a press release about Dorian's sexuality. It was buried two thirds of the way down in a regular interview!
Sera got announced as a lesbian weeks before that, in a highly public venue at a cosplay event. The forum was full of speculation, threads, fighting. It would've taken nothing for a website to pick up on that and run a story.
And David's comment about Dorian being the first fully gay option was literally because he is. "Gay". "Gay male", rather than lesbian. I know it's been increasingly common for the word to include lesbians, but it didn't, in that context - because he was referring to previous male companions and love interests who also romanced women.
If you use the definition of gay to mean gay men - which many still do - then no, it doesn't include lesbians. If that's a problem, take it up with linguistics.
This is RIDICULOUS.
How is it Bioware's fault if media sites focus more on the gay character reveal than the lesbian one? They didn't issue a press release about Dorian's sexuality. It was buried two thirds of the way down in a regular interview!
Sera got announced as a lesbian weeks before that, in a highly public venue at a cosplay event. The forum was full of speculation, threads, fighting. It would've taken nothing for a website to pick up on that and run a story.
And David's comment about Dorian being the first fully gay option was literally because he is. "Gay". "Gay male", rather than lesbian. I know it's been increasingly common for the word to include lesbians, but it didn't, in that context - because he was referring to previous male companions and love interests who also romanced women.
If you use the definition of gay to mean gay men - which many still do - then no, it doesn't include lesbians. If that's a problem, take it up with linguistics.
I'll also add that Sera isn't a 'first' in the same way that Dorian is. Juhani was the first lesbian companion eleven years ago. Granted, we haven't had one since, but it's a bit disingenuous for the other poster to leave out the fact that there had been f/f romances for two years before m/m romances, there have been 9 f/f romances (versus only 6 m/m romances), and there was a lesbian companion eleven years before a gay companion.
I'll also add that Sera isn't a 'first' in the same way that Dorian is. Juhani was the first lesbian companion eleven years ago. Granted, we haven't had one since, but it's a bit disingenuous for the other poster to leave out the fact that there had been f/f romances for two years before m/m romances, there have been 9 f/f romances (versus only 6 m/m romances), and there was a lesbian companion eleven years before a gay companion.
Maria made a good point in a different thread that regardless of Biowares intent with Juhani, the reality was that enough content was cut that one couldn't tell what she was intended to be in terms of orientation. So it wouldn't be representation in KOTOR.
But she was still intended to be a female character available to female player characters. So, she was still that.
... and I believe David was talking about the DA series when he mentioned Dorian as the first gay love interest, anyway.
Sera is the first lesbian love interest in the series.
There *is* a legitimate problem with the way the media reports on gay and lesbian characters, I'm just not sure that in this case it can be called Bioware's fault.
More depressingly, how many of the headlines about Dorian specifically included the words "Dragon Age" and "gay" because that would be people furiously clicking, commenting, sharing and driving up ad revenue?
IGN's article about it got nine thousand comments. That's absurd.
I'll also add that Sera isn't a 'first' in the same way that Dorian is. Juhani was the first lesbian companion eleven years ago. Granted, we haven't had one since, but it's a bit disingenuous for the other poster to leave out the fact that there had been f/f romances for two years before m/m romances, there have been 9 f/f romances (versus only 6 m/m romances), and there was a lesbian companion eleven years before a gay companion.
There were lesbian companions because straight men like girl on girl action, and that sells. That's true in society in general. My bf doesn't even think its cheating if I were to go off and cosplay with my friend and get it on with her. I find that bizarre but it is what it is.
It's not that anyone really thought about it (until now) that lesbians were a target market. They reached a target market (males) and were able to also give something to women who like women.
Have no doubt that if as many women liked to see two dudes making out as males like to see two women that gay men wouldn't have been included earlier. It's all about $$.
And in keeping with that trend of making money, how about supplying women with women and men that we, too, find attractive?
Maria made a good point in a different thread that regardless of Biowares intent with Juhani, the reality was that enough content was cut that one couldn't tell what she was intended to be in terms of orientation. So it wouldn't be representation in KOTOR.
I don't know if I agree with this. A poorly implemented lesbian character is still just that: a lesbian character. It doesn't negate her representation. To me, it's another case of someone using subjective criteria to dismiss a character. Not liking her implementation doesn't mean that she doesn't count.
At least that's my view on it. It would be like dismissing Sky's romance because it has less content and is difficult to get. It's still there so it counts in my opinion.
And in keeping with that trend of making money, how about supplying women with women and men that we, too, find attractive?
I'm glad that you are speaking on behalf of every single woman and her taste in men/women. I'm sure that they will all appreciate it. Especially those who really like Josephine, Sera, Cullen, and Iron Bull and their looks.
Also, isn't this a thread for women (straight women is in the title) to discuss concerns that we have because it's a "feedback" thread? These are feelings, they are rants, they are opinions.
We all have them. I understand that I have perceptions that may or may not be true, but that are relevant just the same. I am a consumer of the product.
Having people tell us: you have choices you just don't like them really isn't the point of this person's thread, I don't believe. We are customers of a product, paying money to Bioware and saying what we would like to see in future games and how we have felt due to the press and early information distributed.
It was (and I didn't help with my comments) turning into a competition (I blame myself, as well) over who gets the best ****. Perhaps, we should just say how we feel and make requests of the company.
So my request is that we have companions as our love interests and that the developers maybe get feedback along the way as to what females are looking for in characters.
We are not benefactors giving an artist money to create. We're customers.
I'm glad that you are speaking on behalf of every single woman and her taste in men/women. I'm sure that they will all appreciate it. Especially those who really like Josephine, Sera, Cullen, and Iron Bull and their looks.
I'm glad that you are so angry with me right now that you're nitpicking my choice of words.
I'm speaking of customer feedback and asking women what we want. Why do you have a problem with that? Don't you want that same option?
I don't know if I agree with this. A poorly implemented lesbian character is still just that: a lesbian character. It doesn't negate her representation. To me, it's another case of someone using subjective criteria to dismiss a character. Not liking her implementation doesn't mean that she doesn't count.
At least that's my view on it. It would be like dismissing Sky's romance because it has less content and is difficult to get. It's still there so it counts in my opinion.
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