561 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

When people say that the gay male community was ignored are they generalizing or being truthful?  A devil's advocate could say that gay men at least got to play men, whereas lesbians and straight women were forced many times to play men.  They could say then that this is a generalizing statement that's not entirely true.  Not entirely true, is still or still has truth.  It is, however, mostly true that gay men were ignored.

 

In every game that you could play as a gay man, you could play as a woman.  You can play in many more games as a woman than as a gay man.  That is a fact.  in Bioware games with romances (11 of them), you can play as a woman in every one of them.  You can be explicitly gay in less than half of them.

 

As far as tastes and preferences, you need only look to Varric's pages and Cullen's to see what people enjoy.  Look how long those threads are in the forum compared to Solas.

 

If women's tastes ran to middle aged bald men or one eyed minotaurs Hollywood would have already appropriated those types into their romances and leading men characters.  They do far more market awareness campaigns to find the right type and that type has yet to be people with one eye and no hair.

 

Now, will there be women who like bald men--yes!  There are women like me who die for beards, but are we most women?  Probably not.

 

You would be hard pressed to find someone who said that the guy who played Superman was a troll or that Chris Hemsworth was a dog.  Just won't happen.  Beauty is subjective to an extent, whereas attractiveness is far more subjective.  Peter Dinklage is a dwarf who is attractive.

 

You are talking about subjective opinions.  Not objective facts.  I find Chris Hemsworth very unattractive.  I find Peter Dinklage very attractive.  My husband feels the opposite.  We are both right because we are stating it as our opinion and neither of us are saying "gay men think this......"

 

One guy was talking on a thread and said "look at gay porn for types of guys that gay men like", was he generalizing?  Or maybe gay porn exists and did market research before selecting "actors"?

 

He was generalizing.  And he got blasted for it.  In fact, I was one of the people who asked him not to speak for me, because his opinions did not represent what I was thinking.  So did another dozen or so guys in that thread.

[ElitePinecone]

Why are we looking at page numbers as a proxy for popularity, exactly? Probably half of the stuff in the Cullen thread has nothing to do with Cullen, it's people chatting about other characters or romances or what they had for lunch.

 

This thread hasn't jumped the shark yet, but it's definitely preparing the boat.

[CareBear1023]

Because you may be unaware of this:

 

The Solas thread reached 300+ pages (It may have been 200+ but I believe it was 300+) based on speculation alone, when the OP declared he wasn't that interested in the character anymore.  A new thread was made, and it has just reached 200 pages (and then moved onward from that).

 

Cullen thread is longer, yes, and always was.  Solas thread was and remains the close second.  That means there are 500+ pages of Solas thread.  Despite your personal biases and preferences, Solas is actually very popular.  I don't think he's the most attractive male companion (I'd say that is Cullen), but out of all of the men, he's the one I would most want to romance, so I am personally hoping he's available.

 

I do not personally find Iron Bull or Blackwall attractive, but Iron Bull IS an LI and Blackwall very well could be--and he certainly has plenty of fans.  Iron Bull has many fans, and many of them are women.

 

Personally I don't care how hot Cullen is, because I remember his attitude toward mages (my favored class) in DA2.  Most likely I will remember that distaste for him and will not pursue his romance unless he's absolutely stellar--especially since he is not a companion and I won't get the happy feels of having my LI wander around with me and banter with the other companions if I do pursue him.

 

As for middle-aged characters... well, the average gamer is now 30+-ish.  Not everyone is against having LIs in their 40s.  In real life I prefer men a bit younger, but it's a game and I'd be perfectly fine romancing a man in his 40s.  In fact I think it might be preferable to having another Alistair--much as I liked Alistair when DAO came out.

 

That's just my two cents.  You are free to share yours, but please stop trying to speak for the preferences of all or most women.   I'm a straight woman and I don't agree with a lot of what you said - preferences are far, far more varied than your opinions suggest.

 

I am not advocating for Cullen.  I am advocating for "Cullen" (could be anyone that's the lone straight female lead)  being stuck as a non-companion.  How come our targeted LIs stay home while we go out?

 

So back to Cullen...where did I say that I love Cullen?

 

I'll wait.

 

I said that I don't think that having the only straight male LI as a non companion is all that cool.  I didn't say that I adore Cullen.  I don't like blondes and I don't like Templars.

 

I also said that none of the LIs are all that particularly awesome and it would be nice if they would do more market research.

 

My type runs to dark haired characters, none of which exist except in either the player himself/herself or non-romanceables like Nathaniel Howe.

[Enigmatick]

 

I also said that none of the LIs are all that particularly awesome and it would be nice if they would do more market research.

 

 

Everything Billythesquid said is starting to make sense.

[CareBear1023]

Why are we looking at page numbers as a proxy for popularity, exactly? Probably half of the stuff in the Cullen thread has nothing to do with Cullen, it's people chatting about other characters or romances or what they had for lunch.

 

This thread hasn't jumped the shark yet, but it's definitely preparing the boat.

 

Argh!

 

I really don't care about Cullen.  I'm posting about how you can conduct market research.

 

I care about the fact that straight females don't have a romanceable companion unlike everyone else.

[daveliam]

I am not advocating for Cullen.  I am advocating for "Cullen" (could be anyone that's the lone straight female lead)  being stuck as a non-companion.  How come our targeted LIs stay home while we go out?

 

 

But I've already pointed out that Cullen, like Leliana, can be deployed in significant plot-driven areas and that, like Leliana, he's likely to be able to accompany the party as an NPC (we've seen footage of him in his lion helmet with a sword out in the world with the Inquisitor).  He doesn't stay home while you go out.  It might be possible for you to take Cullen with you on every major quest.  We don't know the extent of his involvement yet.  He might have more content than some companions. 

[CareBear1023]

Everything Billythesquid said is starting to make sense.

 

 

In every game that you could play as a gay man, you could play as a woman.  You can play in many more games as a woman than as a gay man.  That is a fact.  in Bioware games with romances (11 of them), you can play as a woman in every one of them.  You can be explicitly gay in less than half of them.

 

 

You are talking about subjective opinions.  Not objective facts.  I find Chris Hemsworth very unattractive.  I find Peter Dinklage very attractive.  My husband feels the opposite.  We are both right because we are stating it as our opinion and neither of us are saying "gay men think this......"

 

 

He was generalizing.  And he got blasted for it.  In fact, I was one of the people who asked him not to speak for me, because his opinions did not represent what I was thinking.  So did another dozen or so guys in that thread.

 

Why should anyone be "blasted" for talking about fake characters in an online video game?  Why can't we generalize or just talk out our asses on a forum that's about fantasy gaming?

 

 

Are we supposed to be 100% precise in a rant on video game characters?  Seriously?

[CareBear1023]

But I've already pointed out that Cullen, like Leliana, can be deployed in significant plot-driven areas and that, like Leliana, he's likely to be able to accompany the party as an NPC (we've seen footage of him in his lion helmet with a sword out in the world with the Inquisitor).  He doesn't stay home while you go out.  It might be possible for you to take Cullen with you on every major quest.  We don't know the extent of his involvement yet.  He might have more content than some companions. 

 

Cool.  That would be awesome for those who want to romance him.

[daveliam]

Why should anyone be "blasted" for talking about fake characters in an online video game?  Why can't we generalize or just talk out our asses on a forum that's about fantasy gaming?

 

 

Are we supposed to be 100% precise in a rant on video game characters?  Seriously?

 

You don't have to be 100% precise in your "rants".  However, if you aren't, expect people to correct you when you are incorrect.  Your opinion can't be corrected, but when you make generalized statements that are factually incorrect, then expect people to point out that what you are saying isn't true.

[Brass_Buckles]

I am not advocating for Cullen.  I am advocating for "Cullen" (could be anyone that's the lone straight female lead)  being stuck as a non-companion.  How come our targeted LIs stay home while we go out?

 

So back to Cullen...where did I say that I love Cullen?

 

I'll wait.

 

I said that I don't think that having the only straight male LI as a non companion is all that cool.  I didn't say that I adore Cullen.  I don't like blondes and I don't like Templars.

 

I also said that none of the LIs are all that particularly awesome and it would be nice if they would do more market research.

 

My type runs to dark haired characters, none of which exist except in either the player himself/herself or non-romanceables like Nathaniel Howe.

 

Honestly I don't care if you love Cullen or not.  I was pointing out that there are a large number of players, including women, who do not agree with your particular standards of attractiveness.  Whether or not you love Cullen was not part of my post; whether or not other women are okay with middle-aged hairy or hairless men, was.

 

I do agree it's not the greatest that the straight male LI is not a companion, whereas the straight female LI is.  That's not fair.  But hey, we will have bisexuals and pansexuals to romance, who WILL be companions.  If you don't like any of them, or refuse to romance them because they aren't straight, well... it's a game, they are pixels, it is not the end of the world.  It isn't even a game about romance.  Romance is just a cute bonus.  If you only play the game for the romances, or you think you will be too disappointed by the options you have, then you certainly have the opportunity to save your money by not buying the game, or by waiting until it is on sale to buy it if you ARE okay with not romancing anyone.

[ElitePinecone]

Argh!

 

I really don't care about Cullen.  I'm posting about how you can conduct market research.

 

I care about the fact that straight females don't have a romanceable companion unlike everyone else.

 

IRON BULL.

[CareBear1023]

You don't have to be 100% precise in your "rants".  However, if you aren't, expect people to correct you when you are incorrect.  Your opinion can't be corrected, but when you make generalized statements that are factually incorrect, then expect people to point out that what you are saying isn't true.

 

Okay, why is it important to correct someone's rant?  Do you not think that Bioware gets that we're going off the hook here?

 

I don't tell people what is wrong with their rants.  This is for Bioware to read.  If I were in a different thread that's not made to assert a desire, I would maybe engage in a dialogue, but forgive me isn't the purpose of this thread to discuss where we are unhappy?

 

I don't think you would be happy with your only gay character (in spite of the bis available) being left as a non companion.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I also think you'd be very wary after Mass Effect in our shoes if this was the first lead in for your characters.

 

I personally don't like Cullen, but that's only one piece of it.  It's the fact that I do think these games are designed more with men in mind.

[Brass_Buckles]

IRON BULL.

 

AND probably at least one of the remaining unannounced LIs.  Could be Varric, or Blackwall, or Solas.  If you do not like them, don't romance anyone, or romance a woman.  They are pixels.  Your real-world love life does not hinge on this.

 

You're unhappy with your options and potential options.  I get that.  In my case, if there's no Solas for romance, I may not end up romancing anyone if I don't play it more than once... and I'm not making a huge angry fuss about it.  DAI is just a game.  The devs have decided what they've decided.  If you are that unhappy, I repeat, you can either not buy the game, or wait until it goes on sale.  I think the developers would rather you not spend your money than be unhappy with the game they've busted their butts to make and then go about spouting your unhappiness and spreading that negativity around.

[Schreckstoff]

Okay, why is it important to correct someone's rant?  Do you not think that Bioware gets that we're going off the hook here?

 

I don't tell people what is wrong with their rants.  This is for Bioware to read.  If I were in a different thread that's not made to assert a desire, I would maybe engage in a dialogue, but forgive me isn't the purpose of this thread to discuss where we are unhappy?

 

I don't think you would be happy with your only gay character (in spite of the bis available) being left as a non companion.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I also think you'd be very wary after Mass Effect in our shoes if this was the first lead in for your characters.

 

I personally don't like Cullen, but that's only one piece of it.  It's the fact that I do think these games are designed more with men in mind.

This is a forum not a contact form

[CareBear1023]

Honestly I don't care if you love Cullen or not.  I was pointing out that there are a large number of players, including women, who do not agree with your particular standards of attractiveness.  Whether or not you love Cullen was not part of my post; whether or not other women are okay with middle-aged hairy or hairless men, was.

 

I do agree it's not the greatest that the straight male LI is not a companion, whereas the straight female LI is.  That's not fair.  But hey, we will have bisexuals and pansexuals to romance, who WILL be companions.  If you don't like any of them, or refuse to romance them because they aren't straight, well... it's a game, they are pixels, it is not the end of the world.  It isn't even a game about romance.  Romance is just a cute bonus.  If you only play the game for the romances, or you think you will be too disappointed by the options you have, then you certainly have the opportunity to save your money by not buying the game, or by waiting until it is on sale to buy it if you ARE okay with not romancing anyone.

 

What is my standard of attractiveness?  I've yet to say it.  I said that market research done by Hollywood shows that while beauty and attractiveness are subjective, they are not that subjective because all people do prefer things like symmetry, nice bodies, and hair.

 

Some don't.  Sure.  Some don't like beards.  I do.

 

Also, I never said it was the end of the world.  The end of the world is the end of the world.  No child will go hungry if I don't get to romance a character that looks like Jon Snow.

 

What I'm saying is that as a long-term customer I would like to see some parity when it comes to females.

[CENIC]

I don't find the Iron Bull attractive, but one of my Inquisitors is going to romance him anyway, because he's available and I can make it work for her character.

I wish Cullen was a companion, but that ship has sailed. Honestly, if he had been a companion, I would have been satisfied with just him and none of my other Inquisitors would have had a romance.

[CareBear1023]

AND probably at least one of the remaining unannounced LIs.  Could be Varric, or Blackwall, or Solas.  If you do not like them, don't romance anyone, or romance a woman.  They are pixels.  Your real-world love life does not hinge on this.

 

You're unhappy with your options and potential options.  I get that.  In my case, if there's no Solas for romance, I may not end up romancing anyone if I don't play it more than once... and I'm not making a huge angry fuss about it.  DAI is just a game.  The devs have decided what they've decided.  If you are that unhappy, I repeat, you can either not buy the game, or wait until it goes on sale.  I think the developers would rather you not spend your money than be unhappy with the game they've busted their butts to make and then go about spouting your unhappiness and spreading that negativity around.

 

I think any company that is so butthurt over customers not liking their work that they say "I'm mad at you for not appreciating me! Don't buy my software" is a company that will eventually go out of business.

 

I also have never once denied that I have the option of not buying the game.  Where have I said anything other than that?  Where? 

 

I put in a forum called "Feedback" my opinion that they can take or leave.

[daveliam]

Okay, why is it important to correct someone's rant?  Do you not think that Bioware gets that we're going off the hook here?

 

I don't tell people what is wrong with their rants.  This is for Bioware to read.  If I were in a different thread that's not made to assert a desire, I would maybe engage in a dialogue, but forgive me isn't the purpose of this thread to discuss where we are unhappy?

 

I don't think you would be happy with your only gay character (in spite of the bis available) being left as a non companion.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I also think you'd be very wary after Mass Effect in our shoes if this was the first lead in for your characters.

 

I personally don't like Cullen, but that's only one piece of it.  It's the fact that I do think these games are designed more with men in mind.

 

But you are not posting in a message just to Bioware.  If you were, you'd have sent an email.  You posted on a "social network" message board.  Other players can and will participate in this conversation.

 

And, yes, I was perfectly fine with Steve being an NPC.  And I would have been perfectly fine with the gay character being an NPC in DA: I.  But that's just my opinion, and not representative of that of other gay guys.

[CareBear1023]

This is a forum not a contact form

 

It's a Feedback forum for contact.

[CareBear1023]

But you are not posting in a message just to Bioware.  If you were, you'd have sent an email.  You posted on a "social network" message board.  Other players can and will participate in this conversation.

 

And, yes, I was perfectly fine with Steve being an NPC.  And I would have been perfectly fine with the gay character being an NPC in DA: I.  But that's just my opinion, and not representative of that of other gay guys.

 

Where's the email for Bioware?

[Ryzaki]

Really OP (and those that really want different female romance options) I can recommend you some otome games (both paid and free) filled with f/m romance. You do not need to rely on BW for a romance fix.

[Brass_Buckles]

What is my standard of attractiveness?  I've yet to say it.  I said that market research done by Hollywood shows that while beauty and attractiveness are subjective, they are not that subjective because all people do prefer things like symmetry, nice bodies, and hair.

 

Some don't.  Sure.  Some don't like beards.  I do.

 

Also, I never said it was the end of the world.  The end of the world is the end of the world.  No child will go hungry if I don't get to romance a character that looks like Jon Snow.

 

What I'm saying is that as a long-term customer I would like to see some parity when it comes to females.

 

Plenty of the men are also unhappy with their options.  This includes the gay men.  Plenty of threads have been made ranting and raving about that.  So no, it's not that there isn't parity.

 

I think the real issue is that this time, BioWare went out of their way to make the characters look more real, and give them their own flaws and features, and some people are unhappy that no one looks like a movie star.  Others, including myself, are pleased that not everyone has the same exact features.  There's variety, we will actually be able to remember these characters, recognize them if we see a screenshot of them as compared to a screenshot of some other character from some other game--in many cases, characters (women in particular) look so similar that they all begin to look alike.

 

Not to derail but I just finished The Wolf Among Us (or what there is of it thus far).  Snow and the murder victim in the beginning of the game are nearly identical, except for eye color, hair style, and what they are wearing.  I'd rather have men and women in Dragon Age: Inquisition who look like individuals.  I don't have to check their eye color or their accessories or their clothing to know who I am looking at.  And, you will find people in every single character thread who find that character attractive.  Even Iron Bull's thread.  So people do not have to look alike to be attractive!  Women aren't being given the short end!  It's just that the characters look more like honest-to-goodness imperfect people.

[CareBear1023]

Really OP (and those that really want different female romance options) I can recommend you some otome games (both paid and free) filled with f/m romance. You do not need to rely on BW for a romance fix.

 

Bethesda softworks also has fantasy gaming.  But thank you.  It's appreciated.

[daveliam]

AND probably at least one of the remaining unannounced LIs.  Could be Varric, or Blackwall, or Solas.  If you do not like them, don't romance anyone, or romance a woman.  They are pixels.  Your real-world love life does not hinge on this.

 

 

It is almost a guarantee that straight women will have access to at least one of the remaining two LI's.  I cannot believe for a second that there will be two gay guys and a bisexual guy.  It's just not going to happen.

 

The most likely situation, straight women will have:

 

* Cullen

* Iron Bull

* One of Varric, Solas, and Blackwall

 

There is even a possibility that they will have FOUR romances in this game (which wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibility, given that they were the only group that got an extra romance in DA 2, as well).

[Ryzaki]

Bethesda softworks also has fantasy gaming.  But thank you.  It's appreciated.

 

Bethesda doesn't have romances though...least I haven't noticed any...

 

Did I miss something? I mean the closest you got is KOTOR2 but that was more of a crush that went unresolved. (on the f/m side anyway).