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The fact that sky was the firsy gay romance dosn't mean he needs to be judged less harshly. Gay romance should be held to the same standerts of anyother romance. In defence of JE I must say that I found the kiss much more rimantic than the sex scens...
Yeah, I agree. My point was more that I have a soft spot for Sky that might color my view on his romance. Straight women might not remember him so fondly because he was just another in a long line of romance options for them.
Comparison:
Mass Effect:
Straight Male Shep:
Ashley - Your average military woman, firm, sturdy (not literally) but also poetic. Shows a lot of interest in a romantic attachment. Problem being she's racist, stubborn and doesn't hesitate to doubt Shepard about "bad" things he was never responsible for.
Miranda - Professional woman, very attractive, feminine, smart and strong. Romantic attachment's give her anxiety at first. In her heart she's also insecure. Sad romance for both games since she's still afraid of a real attachment. On the other hand she's also pretty cocky and arrogant, obnoxious to some people even.
Tali - Nerdish girl, cheerful, smart, young, shy. Very romantic and uplifting.
Jack - Messed up past, messed up currently, violent, very sexual, when she opens up it's really quite a sad story. Gets over it in the following game and becomes a lot more .. Together while keeping a positive attitude and uses her violent nature for good. But she may seem too repulsive for lots of people's tastes.
Straight Male Hawke:
Merril - Is actually really really messed up but manages not to whine 24 hours a day about it since she's somewhat deluded. She's still very cheerful even if she breaks down a couple of times. But again she's a blood mage, she knows what she's doing is wrong yet convinces herself its right, which again is messed up.
Isabela - Pretty obvious character, light hearted, sarcastic, has a heart of gold, sexually driven, afraid of attachment but Hawke seems to be a special case. Problem being is that she's REALLY greedy and selfish, also sleeps with everything that moves...
Now straight female Shepard:
Kaidan - Very normal guy in Mass Effect 1, has a much sadder past than Ashley however, decent romance but I understand if some girls found it boring.
Garrus - Badass, strong, light hearted,is secretly a romantic and his shyness when pursuing a relationship has very good contrast with his character.
Thane - Sad past, sad present, non-existent future. A very very emotional and tragic romance. Excellent character driven by guilt to do as much good as he can before his death.
Jacob - Very shallow character, good-guy (again) but add to that he cheats on you...
Straight female Hawke: (too lazy to go in depth for either of them)
Anders - Whine, whine, whine then terrorism! Yay.
Fenris - Whine, whine, whine then I HATE MAGES, I'M ALONE HUR DUR DUR
I'll just let you judge now.
Comparison:
Mass Effect:
Straight Male Shep:
Ashley - Your average military woman, firm, sturdy (not literally) but also poetic. Shows a lot of interest in a romantic attachment.
Miranda - Professional woman, very attractive, feminine, smart and strong. Romantic attachment's give her anxiety at first. In her heart she's also insecure. Sad romance for both games since she's still afraid of a real attachment.
Tali - Nerdish girl, cheerful, smart, young, shy. Very romantic and uplifting.
Jack - Messed up past, messed up currently, violent, very sexual, when she opens up it's really quite a sad story. Gets over it in the following game and becomes a lot more .. Together while keeping a positive attitude and uses her violent nature for good.
Straight Male Hawke:
Merril - Is actually really really messed up but manages not to whine 24 hours a day about it since she's somewhat deluded. She's still very cheerful even if she breaks down a couple of times.
Isabela - Pretty obvious character, light hearted, sarcastic, has a heart of gold, sexually driven, afraid of attachment but Hawke seems to be a special case.
Now straight female Shepard:
Kaidan - Very normal guy in Mass Effect 1, has a much sadder past than Ashley however, decent romance but I understand if some girls found it boring.
Garrus - Badass, strong, light hearted,is secretly a romantic and his shyness when pursuing a relationship has very good contrast with his character.
Thane - Sad past, sad present, non-existent future. A very very emotional and tragic romance. Excellent character driven by guilt to do as much good as he can before his death.
Jacob - Very shallow character, good-guy (again) but add to that he cheats on you...
Straight female Hawke:
Anders - Whine, whine, whine then terrorism! Yay.
Fenris - Whine, whine, whine then I HATE MAGES, I'M ALONE HUR DUR DUR
I'll just let you judge now.
I see DA:O doesn't exist for those interested in romances.
Comparison:
Mass Effect:
Straight Male Shep:
Ashley - Your average military woman, firm, sturdy (not literally) but also poetic. Shows a lot of interest in a romantic attachment.
Miranda - Professional woman, very attractive, feminine, smart and strong. Romantic attachment's give her anxiety at first. In her heart she's also insecure. Sad romance for both games since she's still afraid of a real attachment.
Tali - Nerdish girl, cheerful, smart, young, shy. Very romantic and uplifting.
Jack - Messed up past, messed up currently, violent, very sexual, when she opens up it's really quite a sad story. Gets over it in the following game and becomes a lot more .. Together while keeping a positive attitude and uses her violent nature for good.
Straight Male Hawke:
Merril - Is actually really really messed up but manages not to whine 24 hours a day about it since she's somewhat deluded. She's still very cheerful even if she breaks down a couple of times.
Isabela - Pretty obvious character, light hearted, sarcastic, has a heart of gold, sexually driven, afraid of attachment but Hawke seems to be a special case.
Now straight female Shepard:
Kaidan - Very normal guy in Mass Effect 1, has a much sadder past than Ashley however, decent romance but I understand if some girls found it boring.
Garrus - Badass, strong, light hearted,is secretly a romantic and his shyness when pursuing a relationship has very good contrast with his character.
Thane - Sad past, sad present, non-existent future. A very very emotional and tragic romance. Excellent character driven by guilt to do as much good as he can before his death.
Jacob - Very shallow character, good-guy (again) but add to that he cheats on you...
Straight female Hawke:
Anders - Whine, whine, whine then terrorism! Yay.
Fenris - Whine, whine, whine then I HATE MAGES, I'M ALONE HUR DUR DUR
I'll just let you judge now.
LOL, I love it XD
i agree straight women also tend to get unequal treatment for love interest. i am a gay women so i feel like I've experienced more closer to equal romance options, altho sometimes still not so equal. (not that it kills anybody but when done consistently throughout everything in life is perpetrating discrimination…also probably happens because some men enjoy lesbian romance)
i disagree that a women who likes iron bull and would like to be with him means they don't have self respect though. iron bull may sleep with any person regardless of gender (besides ones he think he'll break), but at the moment i don't think we really know if he could actually be a really loving person. just happens to enjoy sex. perhaps like Isabela or zeveran. but theres nothing wrong with you personally not liking that and not wanting to romance him.
and i do agree things seem to end better with most female love interest than male ones. especially ME3. it has come along way ( from BG 2 - 3 LI for dudes and 1 for girls i believe..to somewhat higher amount of options in bioware and other games), but still very very much not equal (some of the things u pointed out -thane and jacob out, anders blows up things, fenris anti-mage). and id find it hard to see how anyone could not see the inequality.
its part of sexism in the video game industry…meaning people in the game industry thinking that things women express are part of some women thing and not relevant to an entertainment platform such as gaming - but it is. It is relevant and just as equally important as men's concerns and hopes for video games and their content.
if anyone is going to listen though, i believe it is bioware. and i think more people are releasing that girls make up a huge demographic of gamers. i think dragon age team has done a better job in my opinion than mass effect team. so i hope that you find someone good in inquisition - be it solas or cullen maybe.
You highlighted mostly the good traits for Mass Effect romances and the bad traits for DA2 ones honestly but I still agree on Mass Effects being more fleshed out.-snip-
<snip>
C'mon. You know that I could just as easily write subjective statements about the female LI's that make them sound just as bad. "Ashley was a racist and shoved her religion down my throat....." Just because you exaggerate how bad some of them are and downplay how bad others are, doesn't strengthen your argument. I find Ashley, Miranda, Jack, and Merrill to be deeply 'flawed' people. I don't think that they are any worse than the guys though.
Look, we'll never agree on this. Outside of Thane and Jacob. It's just a case of our subjective opinions leading us to two different judgments on the matter.
Oh, no doubt, I have nothing against a well-done broody guy, but I'd like to see something different. It ticked me off with Anders when they sort of used it to try to make the end result angsty. There's no question. He just blew up a bunch of people who weren't directly involved. If he'd blown up a bunch of Templars ... I might have strained over that choice more.
And Fenris spent 10 years changing too little.
I know, that was my issue with the DA2 male romances.
In Mass Effect 2 I didn't particularly care for the Thane or Jacob romances, but they were VERY different characters and what I didn't like about the romance for Thane was not what I didn't like about the romance for Jacob. So you know, there's variety in that.
I liked both the Alistair and Zevran romance in DAO but for very different reasons. Again, they're very different people.
But in DA2 what I didn't like about the Fenris romance was exactly what I didn't like about the Anders romance-the constant political talk, the angst, and the whole "I'm not good enough for you I'm dangerous" attitude that they initially shared. Still better than Sebastian, in my opinion, who I routinely forgot existed. That accent though...mmm mmm mmm....
C'mon. You know that I could just as easily write subjective statements about the female LI's that make them sound just as bad. "Ashley was a racist and shoved her religion down my throat....." Just because you exaggerate how bad some of them are and downplay how bad others are, doesn't strengthen your argument. I find Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Tali, and Merrill to be deeply 'flawed' people. I don't think that they are any worse than the guys though.
Look, we'll never agree on this. Outside of Thane and Jacob. It's just a case of our subjective opinions leading us to two different judgments on the matter.
I was actually going to add in their flaws but I left mid post and forgot, gonna edit it now.
I see DA:O doesn't exist for those interested in romances.
No the OP was pretty specific about the games she was mainly referring to.
Well, in DAO
you have zevran that cheats on you with Hawke and Isabella in DA2.
And you have Alister. If you want have an happy ending with him you need to be a human nuble and kill Logain. You don't kill Logian, you die alone. Your not a humen noble, and you can becaum a mistres for him to cheat on wife with. I don't think being someones mistress is a good situation for any woman, and a guy who cheats on his wife will also cheat on you with another person given a chance (Its something someone should tell the Dr. who married Jacob)...
I also wouldent call dieing in the deep rodes together a happy ending...
Well, in DAO
you have zevran that cheats on you with Hawke and Isabella in DA2.
And you have Alister. If you want have an happy ending with him you need to be a human nuble and kill Logain. You don't kill Logian, you die alone. Your not a humen noble, and you can becaum a mistres for him to cheat on wife with. I don't think being someones mistress is a good situation for any woman, and a guy who cheats on his wife will also cheat on you with another person given a chance...
To be fair the Zevran cheating thing was a bug.
You can also just you know...not make Alistair king and have a happy ending with him by staying Grey Wardens together.
I know, that was my issue with the DA2 male romances.
In Mass Effect 2 I didn't particularly care for the Thane or Jacob romances, but they were VERY different characters and what I didn't like about the romance for Thane was not what I didn't like about the romance for Jacob. So you know, there's variety in that.
I liked both the Alistair and Zevran romance in DAO but for very different reasons. Again, they're very different people.
But in DA2 what I didn't like about the Fenris romance was exactly what I didn't like about the Anders romance-the constant political talk, the angst, and the whole "I'm not good enough for you I'm dangerous" attitude that they initially shared. Still better than Sebastian, in my opinion, who I routinely forgot existed. That accent though...mmm mmm mmm....
LOL! That sound just like Edward from twilight XD
No the OP was pretty specific about the games she was mainly referring to.
You can refere to which ever game you want, I'll update it so people will know.
You can refere to which ever game you want, I'll update it so people will know.
I'd update my comment as well but you pretty much summed up how badly the romances in DA:O for females could be.
It's also hard to compare ME romances with these. For some of those romances: Garrus and Kaidan, you could carry them across more than one game which necessarily developed that relationship a lot more. I've never pursued the Garrus romance because all the saves I carried over romanced Kaidan. I haven't carried over the one that saved Ashley. However, I hear that Garrus is quite good, and I see no reason to doubt it from what he's like as your wingman.
In the Dragon Age games, the romances generally have to be concluded in a single game. That makes them different and harder to add that kind of depth to. When I write, I like to develop male characters for my female protagonists who are their equals or who can at least earn their respect. None of my ladies would develop much affection for a man who is so broken that he can only be held together if she fixes him and some of the recent BioWare characters tend to project that air about them or they're fragile flowers.
I think James Vega actually might have been a decent romance had they added that to who he was already. Kaidan can manage to pull it off without seeming too subordinate. Part of it comes with how physical he can seem in the romance scenes.
Maybe BioWare feels that the ladies need to feel like the Alpha lady the same way that guys like to feel all strong and manly and they feel that "fixing" their male counterparts is one way to give the girls that feeling. But I want a partner, not a dysfunctional project ... or a virgin a la Alistair although that was sweet.
It's also hard to compare ME romances with these. For some of those romances: Garrus and Kaidan, you could carry them across more than one game which necessarily developed that relationship a lot more. I've never pursued the Garrus romance because all the saves I carried over romanced Kaidan. I haven't carried over the one that saved Ashley. However, I hear that Garrus is quite good, and I see no reason to doubt it from what he's like as your wingman.
In the Dragon Age games, the romances generally have to be concluded in a single game. That makes them different and harder to add that kind of depth to. When I write, I like to develop male characters for my female protagonists who are their equals or who can at least earn their respect. None of my ladies would develop much affection for a man who is so broken that he can only be held together if she fixes him and some of the recent BioWare characters tend to project that air about them or they're fragile flowers.
I think James Vega actually might have been a decent romance had they added that to who he was already. Kaidan can manage to pull it off without seeming too subordinate. Part of it comes with how physical he can seem in the romance scenes.
Maybe BioWare feels that the ladies need to feel like the Alpha lady the same way that guys like to feel all strong and manly and they feel that "fixing" their male counterparts is one way to give the girls that feeling. But I want a partner, not a dysfunctional project ... or a virgin a la Alistair although that was sweet.
Yeah I feel the same way, and you should reall try the Garrus romance youll love it. Its my personal Bioware faivorite.
what is it about those romances that you like so much?
I mean If I had to use emotion to describe the LI in DA2 it will be:
Isabella: fun
Merllil: sweet
Fenris: sad and angry
Anders: sad and angry
Ok, Anders romance was hella angsty...
But if you rivalmanced Fenris that was some spicy stuff.
I am really concernd about the romance option for Straight female inquisitor.
This is what happen to femshep in the ME2&3:
In ME2 Swoman got 3 option, lets say that 33% romanced Garrus, 33% Thane and 33% Jacob. Then they got to ME3. You could only romance garrus if you have romanced him in ME2, so 66% of woman are locked out of Garrus. Then Thane dies, and you can chose to start a romance with Kaiden or die alon. Than Jacob (the basterd) cheats on you with Hawke and his mission was one of the last, by that time you can't start a romance with anybody and your forced to die alon. So in ME3 Sfemale got only 1.33 romance option, Lfemale got 2 (and Samantha was awesome, the Sguys had defently something to be jaluse of, she saves the friking world with a touth brush!!!XD) Gguys got 2 and Sguys got 5. Sfemshep got screwed.
In DA2 we basicly got two broody guys (a terorist and an ex slave) and we also always seem to get the romance that ends in death. I'm getting really sick and tierd of those two.
I personaly have no intrest what so ever in the Iron bull. I don't mean to offend, he seems like a really cool character. Its just that no self respecting woman would want to date a guy that beds everything that moves.
So I want to know if there are others in this forum that have the same worrys as me? And what kind of romances would you want to see in DAI and future Bioware games?
In this post we mean no offence to anybody. I congratulat gay guys for geting Dorian he seems like a really cool character, and I am happy that you are finally getting representation. I'm just worrid about the option I will get in DAI, and I would like to disscuss it with my fellow strait woman character planner without being harrased. Thank you for your understanding.
I know I have speling mistakes, English is my thierd launguge. So I appologies.
When your talking about Sfemale romances, you can refer to which ever game you want : )
While I agree with you on most of what you said, I am hoping to get varric for my female dwarf at least, and hopefully cullen is available for all the other races! If they could throw in solas too that would be great, even "if" he is elves only. I feel the same way about Iron bull that you do, I have no interest in a guy that pretty much sleeps with anything that moves. Iron bull is totally friend zoned.
I just had horrible thought.
If the Iron bull say some thing like "I can't sleep with you because I'll brake you" I wouldent know if to laugh or cry XD
I would laugh 
While I agree with you on most of what you said, I am hoping to get varric for my female dwarf at least, and hopefully cullen is available for all the other races! If they could throw in solas too that would be great, even "if" he is elves only. I feel the same way about Iron bull that you do, I have no interest in a guy that pretty much sleeps with anything that moves. Iron bull is totally friend zoned.
And I totally agree with you about Varric, we already know he is not broody and anoying and thats a huge plus. Plus he is Varric and thats another huge plus XD
I would laugh
I would too 
And I totally agree with you about Varric, we already know he is not broody and anoying and thats a huge plus. Plus he is Varric and thats another huge plus XD
I would too
Well if varric is a LI he might be a "little" broody if he is still mourning bianca but other than that I am sure he will be awesome and "Manly" as he has always been lol
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