561 réponses à ce sujet

[DaySeeker]

Let's cut saying "catered to."  Bioware has been great at writing fantastic characters of both genders and allowing players to play as any gender.  I was disappointed I could not have a gay romance in ME or ME2- for very BS reasons, but it is now DAI which has romances available for everyone.  No one here has played the game yet and folks are whining they can't romance who they want to - after having met NONE of the characters outside Varric (who may not be romancible by anyone).  On top of this straight people are saying they are being ignored because of the romance options in the game.  INSANE!  The game, like most media assumes you are straight unless you say otherwise.  The only way to be erased in the game is to not be represented, no gender or sexuality can say that about this game.  Queer folks could say it about any other game with romance options where they had none that weren't straight, but you straight folks saying the game is not for you only because of the romance options you have and don't know yet, but have decided you don't like is crazy.  You know it is not a dating simulator, right?

[Bugsie]

We are the last person thought about, and to a degree I understand. It is important to me to, always has been, that the GLBT community has a home in nerd world. But I feel like after being so supportive and encouraging gay gaming and fighting with straight guys over their wails about Zevran that we're sort of left out of the thought process.

 

BUT, I spend money, too. Isabella was the Jessica Rabbit of the gaming world. The only non-sagging boobs in Kirkwall. I went lesbian because she was the coolest character. Who did straight females get? Whiney Fenris and Emo Anders. Not Varric, the ONLY cool non whiney character

 

I was SO LOOKING FORWARD to this game because when the writing is HOT it's the best company out there, and to find out that the straight female option doesn't even get to be a companion with you is like wtf? Again?

Saying that you don't like certain characters even though they are available to you as a straight female is not the same as saying there are NO characters available to you as a straight female. One is a matter of subjective tastes, the other is a valid concern about being excluded. Please don't conflate the two.

 

Plenty of people liked Fenris and Anders. Just because you didn't doesn't mean they werent there.

 

Mass Effect was a different game with a different team of writers and it had it's failings for straight female gamers (and perhaps I didn't notice it that much because I never had a romance in 1 and my preference was to romance Garrus in 2 and 3). DA games have done pretty well I think (although Varric would be awesome).

 

I think Dayseeker sums up some of the  I have with some of these threads, except for the 'dating simulator' comment (personally that irks me)

[Grieving Natashina]

Now I see women complaining that they might have to share a LI with guys?  C'mon, who cares if a LI is only available to you.  A bisexual LI isn't "catering to men," it's available for everybody.  I'm sorry, but I have very little empathy for anyone that's complaining that they "don't have more than one option to themselves."  

[OrayMoor]

Yes.  If Geralt was gay, then I would feel like that game catered to gay men.  But Geralt being a hypersexual straight male does not feel like it caters to gay men.  I understand that being a man comes with it's own privileges, but I don't see how Bioware games cater to gay men over straight women.  I'm really genuinely trying to understand this argument, but it's not making any sense to me.  I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm trying to understand.

 

Your right, I don't think that Bioware generally cater to Gman over Swoman. I think they did it only in ME3, and maybe i DAI (Because Cullen is an NPC and Dorian is too awesome for his own good).

 

I'm assuming that you are a Gman right? If I'm mistaken I appoligies. I just wanted to ask a Gman a couple of things I was wondering about, If your not comfortable answering them I totally get it and I appoligies.

 

1. In your opinion, what would it take of a game to cater to Gmans? Does the main character have to be gay in order to cater to gay mans?

2. Normally people in the game industery design man to apeal to man. The resolt is often the avatar of testosteron and menliness. Are gay mans generally atracted to those tipe of guys?

3. What do you, as a gay man, find attractive in a video game character in turm of personality?

 

I'm trying to understand the diffrence between what Gguys and Sguys find atractive in a man. I'm wired I know XD

Thank you very much

[OrayMoor]

 

Now I see women complaining that they might have to share a LI with guys?  C'mon, who cares if a LI is only available to you.  A bisexual LI isn't "catering to men," it's available for everybody.  I'm sorry, but I have very little empathy for anyone that's complaining that they "don't have more than one option to themselves."   

 

No body here is coplaining because they want more option then anybody elses, of course youd know that if youed bother reading the comments... And we have no problem with shering LI too.

The peoblem is that only Sfemales exclusive LI is an NPC romance. NPC romance have generally less content then companion romances, so the end reasolt will bw that strait female get less content in their romances.

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Apparently the advisors got the same word budget as the companions and you can only talk to companions in the keep. So I have pretty high hopes that he'll be decent.

 

But if you want a f/m companion LI there's most likely the male bi companion.

 

Really? I didn't know that... Do you have a link that state it?

[daveliam]

Your right, I don't think that Bioware generally cater to Gman over Swoman. I think they did it only in ME3, and maybe i DAI (Because Cullen is an NPC and Dorian is too awesome for his own good).

 

I'm assuming that you are a Gman right? If I'm mistaken I appoligies. I just wanted to ask a Gman a couple of things I was wondering about, If your not comfortable answering them I totally get it and I appoligies.

 

1. In your opinion, what would it take of a game to cater to Gmans? Does the main character have to be gay in order to cater to gay mans?

2. Normally people in the game industery design man to apeal to man. The resolt is often the avatar of testosteron and menliness. Are gay mans generally atracted to those tipe of guys?

3. What do you, as a gay man, find attractive in a video game character in turm of personality?

 

I'm trying to understand the diffrence between what Gguys and Sguys find atractive in a man. I'm wired I know XD

Thank you very much

 

Yeah, I'm a gay man, so I don't mind answering your questions. 

 

1.)  I'm not sure "catering" is the right word, but I'm assuming that you mean "appeals to" or "relates to".  If that's the case, then I would say that, for me, for the game to feel like I can relate to the main character, then I want that character to be gay.  I can enjoy games without gay PC's, but it's not the same.  This is especially true because most games assume that male players are straight and throw numerous digital "babes" at your character all the time.  So, while I can thoroughly enjoy a game with a straight male PC, it is more enjoyable for me to play as a gay male.

 

2.)   I can't speak for all gay men, because our tastes are varied.  I personally am attracted to "traditionally masculine" men, but that's just me.  I know many gay men (in real life and on the forums) who prefer less "traditionally masculine" men.  However, if you are asking if video game designers have a gay male audience in mind when designer their male characters, I would say that it's almost certainly a resounding no with very, very few exceptions.

 

3.)  I tend to find "nice guys" attractive with regards to personalities.  I'd prefer guys like Kaidan.  But, again, that's just me.  I know a bunch of guys who really like Zevran.  I personally can't stand him.  Tastes vary.

 

Hopefully, these answers were helpful.

[Ryzaki]

 

Really? I didn't know that... Do you have a link that state it?

 

 

Gaider tweeted it so you can probably get a direct link in the giant twitter thread.
 

[Grieving Natashina]

 

 

 

No body here is complaining because they want more option then anybody else, of course you'd know that if you'd bother reading the comments...

 

 

 

I've been reading the entire thread, thanks.  

 

 And we have no problem with sharing LI too. The problem is that only Sfemales exclusive LI is an NPC romance. NPC romance have generally less content then companion romances, so the end reason will bw that straight female get less content in their romances.

 

 

Way to contradict yourself in from one sentence to the other. 

The problem with Cullen being the strait option is that he is not a companion which means he is pretty much guaranteed to have less content then anybody else. Sfemales are the only one who got an exclusive NPC, all the other ones got exclusive companions...

This sounds like a complaint based from no evidence other than your fears.  Why should you care if you get "exclusive" NPCs or companions?    

 

For another, I take it you overlooked/ignored/dismissed the devs stating that the adviser romances got just as much writing as the companions romances did?  

 

Finally, we don't know who all the LIs are among the companions, so it's way too soon to judge.

 

This whole, "oh no, I might have to share a romance and I don't have one exclusive to my straightness" mentality really needs to stop.  It isn't just you, it's from a few straight men as well.

[OrayMoor]

Yeah, I'm a gay man, so I don't mind answering your questions. 

 

1.)  I'm not sure "catering" is the right word, but I'm assuming that you mean "appeals to" or "relates to".  If that's the case, then I would say that, for me, for the game to feel like I can relate to the main character, then I want that character to be gay.  I can enjoy games without gay PC's, but it's not the same.  This is especially true because most games assume that male players are straight and throw numerous digital "babes" at your character all the time.  So, while I can thoroughly enjoy a game with a straight male PC, it is more enjoyable for me to play as a gay male.

 

2.)   I can't speak for all gay men, because our tastes are varied.  I personally am attracted to "traditionally masculine" men, but that's just me.  I know many gay men (in real life and on the forums) who prefer less "traditionally masculine" men.  However, if you are asking if video game designers have a gay male audience in mind when designer their male characters, I would say that it's almost certainly a resounding no with very, very few exceptions.

 

3.)  I tend to find "nice guys" attractive with regards to personalities.  I'd prefer guys like Kaidan.  But, again, that's just me.  I know a bunch of guys who really like Zevran.  I personally can't stand him.  Tastes vary.

 

Hopefully, these answers were helpful.

 

Yes, you helped alot.

Thank you very much

[Allan Schumacher]

You cater to MEN, gay and straight was my point.

 

Still don't agree... gay men have consistently been a part of the demographic that we have overlooked, especially in the realm of romances.  Straight men?  Absolutely we cater towards them.  But you also specifically called out that we now cater towards gay men. I have to ask what makes you think that we now cater towards gay men.

[Grieving Natashina]

Still don't agree... gay men have consistently been a part of the demographic that we have overlooked, especially in the realm of romances.  Straight men?  Absolutely we cater towards them.  But you also specifically called out that we now cater towards gay men. I have to ask what makes you think that we now cater towards gay men.

I can answer this one, Allan.  It's because that gay men have a LI confirmed among the companions, and the only option for straight females so far is "merely" Cullen.  Straight men are getting favored because now they have a companion (in their mind real) romance and a "subpar" NPC romance to choose from already.   This poster feels that NPC romances are going to be inferior no matter what, despite what anyone has said to the contrary.  Hence the "catering to gay men."

[Hellion Rex]

I can answer this one, Allan.  It's because that gay men have a LI confirmed among the companions, and the only option for straight females so far is "merely" Cullen.  Straight men are getting favored because now they have a companion (in their mind real) romance and a "subpar" NPC romance to choose from already.   This poster feels that NPC romances are going to be inferior no matter what, despite what anyone has said to the contrary.  Hence the "catering to gay men."

My question is this:

 

What is wrong with the OP romancing a bisexual guy? Cause he'll definitely be a companion.

[Grieving Natashina]

My question is this:

 

What is wrong with the OP romancing a bisexual guy? Cause he'll definitely be a companion.

This.

 

[daveliam]

My question is this:

 

What is wrong with the OP romancing a bisexual guy? Cause he'll definitely be a companion.

 

Apparently if a male LI is bisexual, that means that he's a product of Bioware's "catering" to gay males, even though he would equally be available to straight females.  I'm still not following the logic. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

The idea that Bioware is catering to gay men is absolutely mindboggling to me. DA:O, we got one option to straight women's two and it was obviously the less developed of the two options. DA2, straight women get 3 options with Sebastian, gay guys get 2 options. ME series, no options at all for gay men until the last game and one is an NPC with low content and barely any dialog not about his dead husband. This time we have one option confirmed for us and we don't even know what the final count is. 

 

Seriously. Just, I can't even. 

[Ryzaki]

You know I might get the whole "companions are superior" if not for the whole advisors got as much word budget tweets. As it is I have a feeling the advisor romances are going to be pretty good. I'm still a bit bummed about the whole not traveling the world together thing but if I want that...I can just pick the bi male LI. So yeah I'm not getting the whole "everyone's being catered to but me." thing. F/M has an exclusive option like everyone else, you have a companion option like everyone else I just don't see what's to be upset about.

 

If you don't like the options that's one thing but claiming that's unfair is quite another.

[Grieving Natashina]

Apparently if a male LI is bisexual, that means that he's a product of Bioware's "catering" to gay males, even though he would equally be available to straight females.  I'm still not following the logic. 

I've heard the same thing from some of the angrier straight men from the forums about bisexual lady LIs as well.  I will never understand that.

[SilkieBantam]

Now I see women complaining that they might have to share a LI with guys?  C'mon, who cares if a LI is only available to you.  A bisexual LI isn't "catering to men," it's available for everybody.  I'm sorry, but I have very little empathy for anyone that's complaining that they "don't have more than one option to themselves."  

Agreed. A Bi romance just means double the happiness levels in my book. 

[Schreckstoff]

Lets assume that the Witcher includes a gay romance, will you concider that is cater to you?
Who knows we might find out that Garelt was gay all along XD

Well not entirely comparable as DA is original while The Witcher has a source material and I don't believe Geralt ever showed an interest in dudes in any of the 8 books or the handful short stories

[In Exile]

The idea that Bioware is catering to gay men is absolutely mindboggling to me. DA:O, we got one option to straight women's two and it was obviously the less developed of the two options. DA2, straight women get 3 options with Sebastian, gay guys get 2 options. ME series, no options at all for gay men until the last game and one is an NPC with low content and barely any dialog not about his dead husband. This time we have one option confirmed for us and we don't even know what the final count is. 

 

Seriously. Just, I can't even. 

 

Everyone is just jealous of the Dorian 'stache. It's so incredible, it goes back in time and rewrites the sexual orientation LI imbalance in the last 6 Bioware games. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

If Geralt is gay, he's really over-compensating.

[In Exile]

If Geralt is gay, he's really over-compensating.

 

He's just so in love with Zoltan that he can't even look at another man, and so pretends he's indifferent by pursuing many, many, many women. 

[displayname]

Still don't agree... gay men have consistently been a part of the demographic that we have overlooked, especially in the realm of romances.  Straight men?  Absolutely we cater towards them.  But you also specifically called out that we now cater towards gay men. I have to ask what makes you think that we now cater towards gay men.

Oddly enough, this very topic came up on another forum not to long ago in regards to the Dorian character. Most feel that as gay men, since that was the demographic the topic was aimed towards, Bioware just does a poor job of implementing gay characters altogether. The characters generally tend to be perceived as cartoonish, gay for the sake of being gay, and outright demeaning in the portrayal of gay men. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Oddly enough, this very topic came up on another forum not to long ago in regards to the Dorian character. Most feel that as gay men, since that was the demographic the topic was aimed towards, Bioware just does a poor job of implementing gay characters altogether. The characters generally tend to be perceived as cartoonish, gay for the sake of being gay, and outright demeaning in the portrayal of gay men. 

 

Any examples in particular?  I can't speak on behalf of gay men, though my experiences are not really in alignment with yours.  I've seen a variety, but I don't usually see gay men complain about a character that is "gay for the sake of being gay" in our games (especially regarding gay men, since they have been so few and far between).

[Andraste_Reborn]

Yeah, aren't Steve Cortez and Dorian pretty much it so far? Outside the core cast, there's Wade and Herren and ... um, I think that's everyone. It would be a very small pride float, although happily it seems to be getting bigger with time. (There's also Nicholas and Julian, of course, but they don't actually appear in-game.)

 

And I guess you could regard Wade and Herren as cartoonish and demeaning, but Steve surely isn't, and we haven't even met Dorian yet. The big problem with gay men in BioWare games seems to be that there haven't been enough of them up to this point.