231 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I recall in the city elf origin, your friend (or cousin i forgot which) jokes around with you if you proposition him to leave the alienage with you in hopes of avoiding marriage. He says something like "and where would we go? seek out the dalish and live among the savages?" something like that makes me believe there really isn't anywhere else for them to go.

It's less that there's nowhere else to go, and more that there's nowhere to go that'd be safe (and if they go to another alienage, they'll eventually face another arranged marriage). Unless you're a mage, whether you're elf or human you really need the protection of a community if you want to go live outside of the city on your own or as a small family -- not to mention the knowledge of building your own shelter and getting food.

It's a dangerous world.

[Killdren88]

It's quite simple really...

 

[Devtek]

Dwarves have gold and lyrium, elves have rags. Vicious cycle.

[LinksOcarina]

Not to many Dwarves on the surface...those that are sell **** to you, why would you treat them bad?

[O_OotherSide]

The Europeans were all hostile in general, their intent was to conquer and subjugate. After that, that's when they started saying "we're all cool".

 

Every nation and group that had the power to conquer and subjugate did, not just whites. Native American tribles fought each other just as afriacan and asians did.

[NewBlue]

I like this subject Maybe we could keep the debate focused on DA events..... or something? idk this just intrigues me, and i'd like to not see it shut down?

[NewBlue]

Right, don't say African, but its okay to just blanket Europe right?
 

Could we all take a chill pill? Maybe a nice cup of tea? How's the weather at redcliffe? I heard it's lovely this time of year.

[Nyeredzi]

Right, don't say African, but its okay to just blanket Europe right?
 

Sorry. I meant the British empire

[Schreckstoff]

Sorry, just irks me when someone labels an entire continent as evil and then gets mad when someone does it back to their continent.  Just not a fan of massive hypocrites.

 

What does it matter? I'm Austrian and I don't feel ashamed, sorry nor apologetic for what my countrymen did during WW1 and WW2 as I wasn't even born back then and it has nothing to do with me, I know the history and I don't belittle it. There's few ethnic groups or countries that haven't committed genocide at some point or another in history. Back during the days of slavery the whole world was fucked up and serfdom wasn't much different to slavery anyway.

[Daerog]

- Elves are dominant in Thedas. Are they one culture or many cultures/tribes?

- Humans migrate to Thedas.

- Initial tension, then elves isolate. Info of this time period is questionable. About 4 major human cultures/tribes, one lived around where Orlais is, another made up of Free Marches, then there was Tevinter and the Alamarri. Tevinter goes to war, enslaves elves. Not sure what the other humans did, besides also fight Tevinter at times.

- Alamarri unite, elves join, most likely other humans did as well, fought Tevinter, Tevinter weakened and lost all southern territory, elves given Dales.

- Chantry becames major world religion, missionaries go out, elves back to isolation and feel threatened by missionaries. Throw missionaries out, missionaries come back with escorts, increased tension. War with Orlais, due to Orlesian harassment or Dalish harassment, Dalish winning, seat of the Chantry threatened, Exalted March, Dalish lose, elves now in alienages or nomads.

 

Not all humans are to blame, not all elves are to blame, elves just happen to be in a weak position socially and economically. Dalish tend to refuse to adapt and stress distancing from the now dominant species on Thedas, City Elves also seem to have social traditions in place that limit their growth and encourage segregation (at least in Fereldan where elves are discouraged from leaving the alienage and not having the support of the community if they leave, even though some can make it, like that one cousin who ends up marrying a human or the elves who live out in towns/villages instead of alienages.) Many humans take advantage of the weak, discouraging the elves and any humans that may wish to help.

 

Dwarves on the other hand did not cut themselves off from humans, trading and working with Tevinter and the Alamarri. They were a strong kingdom with a lot of wealth who traded and made themselves into indispensable partners rather than suspicious neighbors.

[dewayne31]

Not sure bout the history of the elves and everything but i will say the city elves i seen act like animals.take the city elf origin male(havent played female). instead of trying to get the guards to help. they take matter into their own and what insues is a bloodbath. Before people jump on my case, I'm notr saying they werent justified, just they never look for another way. Now the two city elves in DA2. They never gave Aveline time to look into it. They took the law into their own hands. They fled to qunrai for protection from justice. And add the city elf the masked empire killing merchants, etc. to me the cirty elves have morals then humans do. I have respect thewy Dalish elves but none for the city elves.sorry if this rubbed some the wrong way. but i was trying point out my fview of elves

[Nyeredzi]

Not sure bout the history of the elves and everything but i will say the city elves i seen act like animals.take the city elf origin male(havent played female). instead of trying to get the guards to help. they take matter into their own and what insues is a bloodbath. Before people jump on my case, I'm notr saying they werent justified, just they never look for another way. Now the two city elves in DA2. They never gave Aveline time to look into it. They took the law into their own hands. They fled to qunrai for protection from justice. And add the city elf the masked empire killing merchants, etc. to me the cirty elves have morals then humans do. I have respect thewy Dalish elves but none for the city elves.sorry if this rubbed some the wrong way. but i was trying point out my fview of elves

Its cool, I respect your views

 

For the city elf origin. There was no time for the guard to do anything to save the girls. The guard was probably going to ignore it because it was the Earl's son too, and the fact that they are nobodies, just good for nothing knife-ears.

 

Imagine that was your bride/groom or cousin getting taken away, and nothing was going to be done about it. The Earl's son has done this before many times, even to servant girls of his castle. The people knew and did nothing.

 

The elves don't get justice, that's why they are pissed. But this guy made way for himself and did some service to the future victims of this creep.

 

The two elves actually did report, and Aveline did look into it, but she ignored it. She's a racist hypocrite. How many people did she kill with Hawke under the basis of him taking the law into his own hands? The rapist guy was one of her own guards as well, that's corruption on her part. 

 

I think I can kill such a bastard if he does that to my sister.

[In Exile]

Its cool, I respect your views

 

For the city elf origin. There was no time for the guard to do anything to save the girls. The guard was probably going to ignore it because it was the Earl's son too, and the fact that they are nobodies, just good for nothing knife-ears.

 

Imagine that was your bride/groom or cousin getting taken away, and nothing was going to be done about it. The Earl's son has done this before many times, even to servant girls of his castle. The people knew and did nothing.

 

The elves don't get justice, that's why they are pissed. But this guy made way for himself and did some service to the future victims of this creep.

 

The two elves actually did report, and Aveline did look into it, but she ignored it. She's a racist hypocrite. How many people did she kill with Hawke under the basis of him taking the law into his own hands? It was one of her own guards as well, that's corruption on her part. 

 

I think I can kill such a bastard if he does this to my sister.

 

Aveline actually advocates you straight up murder a guy because the justice system will fail the elves in the Magistrate's Orders quest. She's very much a hypocrite when it comes to the elves in Act 2. 

[Nashimura]

According to the stuff in Dragon Age: Origins The Tevinter Imperium originally attacked the Elves because they wanted the Elves secrets, especially their immortality, which, ironically faded in after being around the "quick children" for too long.  Eventually the old elves had to fight just to sustain themselves and by then it was too late. They had grown weaker while the Tevinter Imperium had grown stronger.

. They joined with Andraste to break the Imperium's hold and won their freedom but the Chantry is its own monster and destroyed the Dales for not following the Maker.

Elves are an underclass at this point. Humans consider them inferior if they're city elves, or savage if they are Dalish. Humanity has a very selective memory.

The Dwarves has always had economic and technological edges plus they could not use magic. For a while, they also had golems which were lost for a while. But really, what keeps the Chantry out of Dwarfland, is the hassle, and the Darkspawn.  They would not want to fight the Dwarves and the Darkspawn at the same time, so they just let the Dwarves deal with the Darkspawn.

If the Darkspawn ever go away, the Dwarves will be the next victims of a Grand Crusade.

 

 

I think it would be extremely hard to launch an attack on the dwarves... as long as you can't just starve them out anyway...

[ShinsFortress]

I'm Austrian and I don't feel ashamed, sorry nor apologetic for what my countrymen did during WW1 and WW2 as I wasn't even born back then and it has nothing to do with me, I know the history and I don't belittle it. There's few ethnic groups or countries that haven't committed genocide at some point or another in history. Back during the days of slavery the whole world was fucked up and serfdom wasn't much different to slavery anyway.

 

So is my family (German and Swiss too).  And I do feel sorry.  Should you feel responsible?  No.  But just as the British have much guilt for the actions of the East India, we've got our fair share.  Just because the history is more recent, arguably worse, and burns a little harder doesn't mean that there isn't a duty of care of sorts.

 

As far as Dragon Age is concerned, I never liked the downtrodden elf thing.  There's enough of that I see every day in the real world.  I had hoped Dragon Age could come up with something new that wasn't a hippy group hug fest.  Never mind.  DA:O was mostly good, but that particular theme has been done now.  Does DA:I need to perpetuate it, or try something bold, fresh and more to the point right.

[dewayne31]

Its cool, I respect your views

 

For the city elf origin. There was no time for the guard to do anything to save the girls. The guard was probably going to ignore it because it was the Earl's son too, and the fact that they are nobodies, just good for nothing knife-ears.

 

Imagine that was your bride/groom or cousin getting taken away, and nothing was going to be done about it. The Earl's son has done this before many times, even to servant girls of his castle. The people knew and did nothing.

 

The elves don't get justice, that's why they are pissed. But this guy made way for himself and did some service to the future victims of this creep.

 

The two elves actually did report, and Aveline did look into it, but she ignored it. She's a racist hypocrite. How many people did she kill with Hawke under the basis of him taking the law into his own hands? It was one of her own guards as well, that's corruption on her part. 

 

I think I can kill such a bastard if he does this to my sister.

I'll give the point the city elf origin

 

If we remember she headr rumors but never had time to look into iy. granted they could reported it to one of her Lieutenant whoo shoved to the bottom of a pile somewhere. i mean Aveline still had rotten guards. yes i would want justice if my sister raped. but i wouldnt kill a man for it. corect me if im wrong but i believe between the rape and murder was only a matter of few days.

 

but you still the elves of the dales killing everyone and murder more like it.

[xXxshemlifexXx]

Dwarves have a massive empire and are more than capable of defending it, created a new language specifically for trading with humans and do their part in holding off the darkspawn every day.

 

Elves somehow managed to go from Highly Advanced race of Immortals to wandering mud hobos, isolate themselves from everything and are basically useless

[Nyeredzi]

I'll give the point the city elf origin

 

If we remember she headr rumors but never had time to look into iy. granted they could reported it to one of her Lieutenant whoo shoved to the bottom of a pile somewhere. i mean Aveline still had rotten guards. yes i would want justice if my sister raped. but i wouldnt kill a man for it. corect me if im wrong but i believe between the rape and murder was only a matter of few days.

 

but you still the elves of the dales killing everyone and murder more like it.

The elves of the Dales were just keeping to themselves and the land that was theirs. Humans for some reason are crazy bastards who want to start problems when there is none.

 

Humanity: "Peace at last. No more Tervinter, no more war, the elves are no longer around either. Wait no more elves... there's nothings to hate anymore!!....OMG this is boring! "

 

time passes

 

Humanity: "That's it!"

 

Arrives at the Dales and knocks on the giant door to the City of the elves.

 

Elvhen: "Who is it-. "

 

Humanity: "Hi neighbor, remember me?"

 

Elvhen: "Oh, the guy who came to my house last time, and sank it down for no reason?..." *Sigh* "...Listen buddy I'm just in a time were I'm catching a break from the crap you've been hitting me with for the last couple of centuries, I'm trying to recover from that stuff, so can you, like, just live me alone.... That's no problem right? 

 

Humanity: "So what-yal doing in there all alone...You planning revenge? Huh? You making up a doomsday device?"

 

Elvhen: "No. You warmongers!! just eff of and live us in peace! We've done nothi-

 

Humanity: "Peace?? Lol! Nice try...I'm keeping my eyes on your knife-ears elf."

 

Elvhen: "By the Maker!!!"

 

Humanity leaves the city, but returns after years.

 

Elvhen: "By Mythal!!

 

Humanity: "!!!!"  (Mythal?? das illuminati!!!)

 

"I'l be back!"

 

Humanity leaves and returns

 

Humanity: "I have this message that you need, the message I want to chant to you-"

 

Elvhen: "No, man! I'm not buying that!!

 

Slams the giant door in his face

 

Humanity: " "

 

Humanity: "  bad neighbor" 

 

Returns with an angry army of dragon age mafia and destroys the Dalish City.

 

The remaining elves all became miserable and hated pariahs. Humanity has something to hate on again beside its peasants.

[Master Shiori]

Elves somehow managed to go from Highly Advanced race of Immortals to wandering mud hobos, isolate themselves from everything and are basically useless

I have serious doubts about whether the elves were ever as advanced and powerful as they claim.

 

We had this fabulous city we used to live in, but it got sank underground and no trace can be found of it anymore.

 

We have our own gods that used to actually talk to us but, conveniently, we can hardly remember a damn thing about them.

 

We had great magic, but can't perform any of it.

 

We used to be almost immortal, but lost that immortality by simply coming into contact with another race.

 

 

Honestly, I find it more likely that Elves did have a culture and, most likely, a nation at some point. But I seriously doubt it was nearly as great and wonderful as they make it out to be. More likely these are just stories meant to give hope and instill a sense of pride into  people that used to, and still do to an extent, occupy the lowest position in human society.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Elves are mistreated by humans because both races have had a turbulent history together. 

 

It starts with the Arlathan Elves ruling all of Thedas back when they were the only race here.

Then humans came and the elves realized that they were losing their immortality by being near the Shemlen, so isolated themselves.

The humans wouldn't know this so keep trying to make contact, resulting in tensions because the elves want the humans to go away and the humans see that as rude. 

The Tevinter is formed and they decide they want to rule Thedas because the Old Gods, etc. 

The war happens, the elves lose and are enslaved. 

Andraste appears a millenium later and frees the elves in her war against Tevinter. 

The followers of Andraste and the freed elves head south and become neighbors.

Elves still have understandable trust issues so force humans away, which raises tensions. 

Tensions are really strained when the elves sat back and watched the humans get devastated by the Blight for almost a century. 

After, the humans are understandably mad at the elves and these tensions are added to the ones that existed before until they reach a breaking point.

Said breaking point was the elves invading Orlais and cutting through the nation so that the humans can't bother them anymore.

Humans push the elven army back and remove their ability to declare war and offer an ultimatum: live in our lands or be vagrants. 

Those who choose the latter become Dalish, those who choose the former become City Elves. 

The humans are understandably angry at what the elven armies did so take their anger out on innocent elves. This causes the Dalish to see humans as savages.

The Dalish in turn are hostile to humans, which in turn makes humans hostile to City Elves, and the cycle of hatred was born and continues to this day. 

[Chiramu]

Cause Knife ears are boring and suck.

 

Suck what? Suck ass? They certainly might if their master told them to do so.

[Nyeredzi]

The Elves are mistreated by humans because both races have had a turbulent history together. 

 

It starts with the Arlathan Elves ruling all of Thedas back when they were the only race here.

Then humans came and the elves realized that they were losing their immortality by being near the Shemlen, so isolated themselves.

The humans wouldn't know this so keep trying to make contact, resulting in tensions because the elves want the humans to go away and the humans see that as rude. 

The Tevinter is formed and they decide they want to rule Thedas because the Old Gods, etc. 

The war happens, the elves lose and are enslaved. 

Andraste appears a millenium later and frees the elves in her war against Tevinter. 

The followers of Andraste and the freed elves head south and become neighbors.

Elves still have understandable trust issues so force humans away, which raises tensions. 

Tensions are really strained when the elves sat back and watched the humans get devastated by the Blight for almost a century. 

After, the humans are understandably mad at the elves and these tensions are added to the ones that existed before until they reach a breaking point.

Said breaking point was the elves invading Orlais and cutting through the nation so that the humans can't bother them anymore.

Humans push the elven army back and remove their ability to declare war and offer an ultimatum: live in our lands or be vagrants. 

Those who choose the latter become Dalish, those who choose the former become City Elves. 

The humans are understandably angry at what the elven armies did so take their anger out on innocent elves. This causes the Dalish to see humans as savages.

The Dalish in turn are hostile to humans, which in turn makes humans hostile to City Elves, and the cycle of hatred was born and continues to this day. 

Humans are the worst..

 

sensitive hypocrites

[Master Shiori]

Except that there are no records or any kind of proof that what the elves say about Arlathan or the events leading up to their enslavement by Tevinter Imperium are true.n It's even more confusing if you consider that Tevinter or Dwarven records make no mention of it. Even if the Tevinter decided to pruge all mention of Arlathan and old elven civilization from history, the Dwarves would still have had some kind of record of it, even if it was just a mention. The Elves certainly knew about the Dwarves and it's not far fetched to believe that the two races had some kind of contact with each other. 

 

The Elven nation in the Dales is certainly a fact, since Orlesian records confirm it. The cause of the war between them and Orlais is up for debate since each side blames the other without presenting any evidence to back their claims.