I want the Qunari to eff the humans up badly.
Dwarves are treated normally, but elves are treated like animals. Why?
Débuté par
Nyeredzi
, juil. 02 2014 11:06
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#152
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:16
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.....maybe it's just cuz it's late but I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to say. But I've rarely had a PC that hasn't tried to help the elves, because for the vast majority of the time, they are unjustly given the **** end of the stick. Having said that, it's pretty obvious that all races In thedas except the qunari(as a society) would be treating any other race identically. On top of that, I haven't seen anyone (except as a joke) defend their treatment. But given the history between the nations/races of thedas, it's pretty easy to list "why" they are treated such
Sorry if I didn't articulate things correctly.
The main point I'm trying to make is you can't be surprised when this veers into social justice talk. The reason why the elves got where they did aren't easy to debate to begin with. We don't have all the facts, but it doesn't matter much anyways, I think. When you focus on their present condition, then it's only natural to ask oneself is there any good reason for people to deserve this? Religion isn't a very convincing justification for many. Although I think that's why it happened.
#153
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:21
efd731
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Meh, my PC's care but only because irl I care. But honestly, I don't see why anyone else in thedas should care. As long as they aren't slaves, discrimination and dislike racism and revilement(yes I stretched that into two alliterations thank you very much) aren't a big deal. Yes it sucks to be an elf, but so what, it sucks to be 99% of anyone else on thedas. And so what if they are hated, they hate humans equally. And to this who say "some of them aren't like that" so what, some of the humans aren't like that either. Doesn't matter, Thedas is a bigger "bastard simulator" than DayZ or Rust. (And if you don't know what those are, look at their reviews on steam)
#154
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:25
Schreckstoff
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I want the Qunari to **** the humans up badly.
I want the humans to destroy the very concept of the Qun.
No one gives a **** when humankind slaughter and or opress each other so why give a **** when they do it with elves?
- Han Shot First aime ceci
#155
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:26
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Meh, my PC's care but only because irl I care. But honestly, I don't see why anyone else in thedas should care. As long as they aren't slaves, discrimination and dislike racism and revilement(yes I stretched that into two alliterations thank you very much) aren't a big deal. Yes it sucks to be an elf, but so what, it sucks to be 99% of anyone else on thedas. And so what if they are hated, they hate humans equally. And to this who say "some of them aren't like that" so what, some of the humans aren't like that either. Doesn't matter, Thedas is a bigger "bastard simulator" than DayZ or Rust. (And if you don't know what those are, look at their reviews on steam)
It's a bastard simulator, sure.. But it also keeps putting the idea out there that we could (or should) right the wrongs of the past.
The series itself kicks off with dealing with consequences of the past. Darkspawn. We're not asked to be Ok with crappy conditions there. And then extends that to other issues. We can fight a lot of things. And there are factions that wish to as well. But it's all our choice, of course.
#156
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:35
Nyeredzi
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Meh, my PC's care but only because irl I care. But honestly, I don't see why anyone else in thedas should care. As long as they aren't slaves, discrimination and dislike racism and revilement(yes I stretched that into two alliterations thank you very much) aren't a big deal. Yes it sucks to be an elf, but so what, it sucks to be 99% of anyone else on thedas. And so what if they are hated, they hate humans equally. And to this who say "some of them aren't like that" so what, some of the humans aren't like that either. Doesn't matter, Thedas is a bigger "bastard simulator" than DayZ or Rust. (And if you don't know what those are, look at their reviews on steam)
Humans kill/rape/kidnap innocent elves and get away with it. That's a big deal. Elves are not even allowed to pick a weapon to defend themselves either. If you didn't live in your room, and lived in those conditions of which they are forced to live in, you wouldn't be saying it's not a big deal.
If your sister/mother is constantly beaten, abused, and sexually harassed at work by racist humans, I think she would have a real reason to hate humans.
#157
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:41
efd731
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When did I say elves weren't justified? When did I say humans weren't racist shitbags in thedas?
My only point is, I'm just "meh" over the whole scenario. And also, I have yet to see a single elf(in a position of power) do anything different than a human would've done. Which btw is either be indifferent or a total shitbag. Have we ever seen an elf who just wants equality or freedom(nope) without some stupid-ass or "revengey" way of going about said goal(yup)
I mean, it's not like the elves have had their MLK or Ghandi yet.
My only point is, I'm just "meh" over the whole scenario. And also, I have yet to see a single elf(in a position of power) do anything different than a human would've done. Which btw is either be indifferent or a total shitbag. Have we ever seen an elf who just wants equality or freedom(nope) without some stupid-ass or "revengey" way of going about said goal(yup)
I mean, it's not like the elves have had their MLK or Ghandi yet.
#158
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:49
Nyeredzi
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I want the humans to destroy the very concept of the Qun.
No one gives a **** when humankind slaughter and or opress each other so why give a **** when they do it with elves?
In dragon age, the Qun is needed.
Why I don't give care "when humans slaughter and or oppress each other" is because humans are f***ed up, and the elves are different. They showed no aggression, and if it was us we would have rushed the other humans the moment they started advancing territory and number.
I guess the differences in opinions are with someone like me, I was raised in a different place, with different culture, and lived in a different life.
#159
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 06:56
Nyeredzi
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Look at Skyrim snow elves. The situation was the same, barbarian humans arrive from the north ocean, they settle, and live along the native elves for a while.
The Snow Elves of Skyrim did what most of you wanted the Alarthans to do.
They sacked the humans before they could sack them, but something went wrong for them, horribly wrong. The humans returned to kill them all, down to the last child, and woman. The wisp mothers in Skyrim are ghosts of Snow Elven women.
The humans got their BS reason for war and revenge on the Snow Elves, heck now its all elves, even the friendly wood elves. 
The cycle is effed up. It must be broken.
#160
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 07:06
Mirrman70
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In dragon age, the Qun is needed.
Why I don't give care "when humans slaughter and or oppress each other" is because humans are f***ed up, and the elves are different. They showed no aggression, and if it was us we would have rushed the other humans the moment they started advancing territory and number.
I guess the differences in opinions are with someone like me, I was raised in a different place, with different culture, and lived in a different life.
the elves didn't think humans were a threat and that they were stupid barbarians. The elves are equally responsible for their own destruction because if they were so awesome and advanced you would think they would see the danger in some dudes straight out of the stone age being given access to magic and forbidden knowledge by a bunch of demons and old gods. But the Elves thought their position as the superior race would be unchallenged and thus became complacent. If they had seen the potential capabilities of humans then they wouldn't have let them have had a chance from the moment they first appeared. I think that the elves partially deserved being conquered a whole tortoise beating the hare kind of thing. also the elves oppressed their own people the same way humans oppress city elves in modern thedas so it isn't like the elves had some kind of magical, happy and fun utopia of niceness. if anything it was a dystopia that has been forgotten and the Dalish ideas of a beautiful and utopian ancient elven empire was created as a way to lie to themselves about how different elves are to humans. Elves are just as capable of cruelty as humans are.
#161
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 09:27
UnbathedapeV2
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elf stupid. elf only need hide ear with hair, then get white privilege.
- Nyeredzi aime ceci
#162
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 11:29
BronzTrooper
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I want the humans to destroy the very concept of the Qun.
No one gives a **** when humankind slaughter and or opress each other so why give a **** when they do it with elves?
One: Humans are the dominant race in terms of population.
Two: Elves have been beat on by humans for thousands of years with little, if any, justification.
Three: When the elves have land to themselves (Arlathan and the Dales) they just want to be left alone. In the Dales' case, they wanted to be left alone to rebuild their culture. In the Arlathan days, they wanted to be left alone to preserve their immortality.
Four: Humans as a species (this includes humans irl) are arrogant, aggressive, greedy, and always look for problems that don't exist. They will even look for problems with each other.
- Nyeredzi aime ceci
#163
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Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 11:35
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That always cracks me up (or makes me cry. Not sure which). The main "crime" of elves is just wanting to be left alone.
Humans kind of remind me of that obnoxious guy you meet a party who just butts in your conversations and wants attention. You tell him to go away nicely, but he thinks he's being funny and keeps coming back. Then you finally lose it, thrown down your beer, and choke him against a wall till he's blue. Then the music stops and everyone blames you for ruining the party.
... OK, maybe that's too detailed an analogy. Forget what I said.
- Kidd et Nyeredzi aiment ceci
#164
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 11:42
Lucijenifer
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Doesn't it all come down to competition over resources and land? In the end, the underground of Thedas is only inhabitable by dwarves while elves and humans have always had to struggle with each other for domination over the surface world.
It's happened countless times in reality, with one race or culture pushing another to the sidelines as it dominates the land, often resulting in segregation, slavery or even genocide of the replaced race. In this case, rather than speaking a different language or having different skin colour, the race in question has pointy ears.
#165
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Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 11:51
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Doesn't it all come down to competition over resources and land? In the end, the underground of Thedas is only inhabitable by dwarves while elves and humans have always had to struggle with each other for domination over the surface world.
It's happened countless times in reality, with one race or culture pushing another to the sidelines as it dominates the land, often resulting in segregation, slavery or even genocide of the replaced race. In this case, rather than speaking a different language or having different skin colour, the race in question has pointy ears.
I'd probably be more open to that, if that's all it was.
It's honest at least.
Ancient Tevinter was honest like this. The Chantry era is less honest. Instead of calling it Conquest, they sanctify their actions and excuse it. They use their God to systematically oppress people. They forget Andraste herself was a slave. That her movement was a slave rebellion and that her allies were Shartan and elven slaves.
Fast forward and now they can't even admit to themselves Shartan was real. They've even banned pictures of Shartan or erased his ears in the one painting that exists. And would rather preach an entirely different story.
But it's realistic, I guess. People use religion to justify racism in the real world too. Whether it's colonialism or killing native Americans or enslaving Africans.. God told them it's OK to do it.
- SwobyJ, myahele et Nyeredzi aiment ceci
#166
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 12:09
TrueMyst
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I think you're getting worked up over this a bit too much OP.
However, why are you generalising all humans with this? My characters were all human and had strong respect for elves. If they respected them, that is. You should be focusing on individuals rather than entire populations. A good tip for real life too.
#167
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Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 12:12
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I think you're getting worked up over this a bit too much OP.
However, why are you generalising all humans with this? My characters were all human and had strong respect for elves. If they respected them, that is. You should be focusing on individuals rather than entire populations. A good tip for real life too.
If it was just about our characters, I'm sure the majority of people would be skipping around with rainbows shooting out their asses. The world change overnight. For the better, 9 times out of 10.
Our characters are meaningless though. Factions and entire populations are the thing to talk about. Dragon Age is precisely about these deeper social issues and past history in the lore.
#168
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 12:46
Gileadan
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Look at Skyrim snow elves. The situation was the same, barbarian humans arrive from the north ocean, they settle, and live along the native elves for a while.
The Snow Elves of Skyrim did what most of you wanted the Alarthans to do.
They sacked the humans before they could sack them, but something went wrong for them, horribly wrong. The humans returned to kill them all, down to the last child, and woman. The wisp mothers in Skyrim are ghosts of Snow Elven women.
Huh?
In a display of genocidal racism, the Snow Elves / Falmer (who originated from Summerset Isle and were not native to Skyrim either) attempted to butcher the humans, whom they considered a lesser race. This massacre became known as the Night of Tears. The suriving humans returned to Atmora, came back with a bigger army, and paid them back in kind. The surviving snow elves made a deal with the dwemer, who offered to shelter them underground if they agreed to their entire race being blinded by a toxin. The snow elves that agreed devolved into the creepy-crawlies known as Falmer today.
The only fault of the humans in that story was "being neighbor to elves". There's at least two other races in this mess who were the bigger bastards.
#169
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Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 12:53
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Elves are the bigger bastards in Tamriel, yeah.
Nords have the distinction of just worshipping a bastard. They're OK people otherwise.
edit: There are some similarities with Dragon Age though. Resentment amongst elves in both settings boils down to being screwed over by a Trickster.
#170
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 12:58
NRieh
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Because human using a dwarf as a sex-slave and human harassing a dwarf does not fit any tropes, you know.
#171
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 01:17
Schreckstoff
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One: Humans are the dominant race in terms of population.
Two: Elves have been beat on by humans for thousands of years with little, if any, justification.
Three: When the elves have land to themselves (Arlathan and the Dales) they just want to be left alone. In the Dales' case, they wanted to be left alone to rebuild their culture. In the Arlathan days, they wanted to be left alone to preserve their immortality.
Four: Humans as a species (this includes humans irl) are arrogant, aggressive, greedy, and always look for problems that don't exist. They will even look for problems with each other.
Wanting to be left alone doesn't work and will always create malice, especially if there are nation spanning problems at large. It's an either you're with us or you're against us situation.
4 applies to every humanoid species in DA. Dwarves, Elves. Qunari all are greedy, all want more than they have, all see the other races below them, none of this is leased by humans.
#172
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 04:25
leaguer of one
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Meh, my PC's care but only because irl I care. But honestly, I don't see why anyone else in thedas should care. As long as they aren't slaves, discrimination and dislike racism and revilement(yes I stretched that into two alliterations thank you very much) aren't a big deal. Yes it sucks to be an elf, but so what, it sucks to be 99% of anyone else on thedas. And so what if they are hated, they hate humans equally. And to this who say "some of them aren't like that" so what, some of the humans aren't like that either. Doesn't matter, Thedas is a bigger "bastard simulator" than DayZ or Rust. (And if you don't know what those are, look at their reviews on steam)
Anders/Justice was right if Thedus has that type of thinking.
#173
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 05:20
Nyeredzi
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Wanting to be left alone doesn't work and will always create malice, especially if there are nation spanning problems at large. It's an either you're with us or you're against us situation.
4 applies to every humanoid species in DA. Dwarves, Elves. Qunari all are greedy, all want more than they have, all see the other races below them, none of this is leased by humans.
Well when you explain to them that
Elf: "Hey new guy, being around you kills me, but I don't want to fight you, so can I just go into my little space and be left alone? You can do whatever you want though, just, uh, just leave us... alone...Ok. We good?
Human: 
Elf: "OK." Elf leaves
Human: 
(Bastards, how dare they?! They deserve to be destroyed.)
Elf: "Whew. Glad we cleared that awkward situation out, now we can all live in pea-" Boom
Elf: " 
****"
As for the Qunari, they aren't greedy at all, the qun forbids it and they don't see the other races as below them, just those who refuse the qun, which is equality.
- BronzTrooper aime ceci
#174
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 05:30
The Elder King
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You assumed things go that way (not that I want to justify the Imperium). If anything, (The Masked Empire spoiler)Well when you explain to them that
Elf: "Hey new guy, being around you kills me, but I don't want to fight you, so can I just go into my little space and be left alone? You can do whatever you want though, just, uh, just leave us... alone...Ok. We good?
Human:
Elf: "OK." Elf leaves
Human:
Elf: "Whew. Glad we cleared that awkward situation out, now we can all live in pea-" Boom
Elf: "
Spoiler
#175
Posté 04 juillet 2014 - 05:33
Maria Caliban
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True, though I suppose the humans could've just enslaved all the dwarves and forced them to mine lyrium if they had wanted to. But again, there would have been no point conquering an entire kingdom they wouldn't have wanted to live in. So trade would be the more practical option.
The Tevinter Imperium's edge was its magic. Dwarves are resistant to magic. Not to mention that human and elven troops sent into the Deep Roads to fight dwarves are going to have serious disadvantages. What will they eat? How will they fight effectively in tunnels? Mounted units and archers will be far less useful.
How do you handle hygiene for an army when there's no rivers or space? You're going to get lots of waste building up.
