231 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

The Tevinter Imperium's edge was its magic. Dwarves are resistant to magic. Not to mention that human and elven troops sent into the Deep Roads to fight dwarves are going to have serious disadvantages. What will they eat? How will they fight effectively in tunnels? Mounted units and archers will be far less useful.

How do you handle hygiene for an army when there's no rivers or space? You're going to get lots of waste building up.

 

And the dwarves are entirely self sufficient which means that they're more than ready for a war of attrition, something that they've honed their skills at during the centuries of fighting the darkspawn.

[Schreckstoff]

Well when you explain to them that

 

Elf: "Hey new guy, being around you kills me, but I don't want to fight you, so can I just go into my little space and be left alone? You can do whatever you want though, just, uh, just leave us... alone...Ok. We good?

 

Human: 

 

Elf: "OK." Elf leaves

 

Human:   (Bastards, how dare they?! They deserve to be destroyed.)

 

Elf: "Whew. Glad we cleared that awkward situation out, now we can all live in pea-" Boom 

 

Elf: " ****"

 

As for the Qunari, they aren't greedy at all, the qun forbids it and they don't see the other races as below them, just those who refuse the qun, which is equality.

I doubt they were that open and down to earth about it but yes that's pretty much how it works.

 

The Qun demands forceful conversion and expansion, which makes it and every Qunari greedy. The Qunari are those who believe in the Qun everyone who isn't of the Qun is seen as below them.

[Nyeredzi]

I doubt they were that open and down to earth about it but yes that's pretty much how it works.

 

The Qun demands forceful conversion and expansion, which makes it and every Qunari greedy. The Qunari are those who believe in the Qun everyone who isn't of the Qun is seen as below them.

They bring the expansion of the Qun, selflessness, and true equality. You think they conquer to like the tervinter did? You call them greedy, well I bet they are greedy for wanting to destroy greed.

 

They treat anyone in the Qun with the same respect. Duty. If you are a rich privileged human, obviously you ain't gonna like them. But if you are an elf and you see your entire race being subjugated because of things they cannot control and the situation likely never going to change, the Qun is an option. The Qun is complete equality of anyone in it.

[Karlone123]

It's a long and complicated history with details that have been wrong and seem to be misremembered by both races, the Dwarves have a long trading history with the humans of Thedas. They have/had a compact with Tevinter (which the dwaves violated at one point) and an embassy, they also trade lyrium with the Chantry. And of course there is the Dwarven merchants' guild which does various business with humans. Elves generally do not want to get along with humans and vice versa.

[Roamingmachine]

They bring the expansion of the Qun, selflessness, and true equality. You think they conquer to like the tervinter did? You call them greedy, well I bet they are greedy for wanting to destroy greed.
 
They treat anyone in the Qun with the same respect. Duty. If you are a rich privileged human, obviously you ain't gonna like them. But if you are an elf and you see your entire race being subjugated because of things they cannot control and the situation likely never going to change, the Qun is an option. The Qun is complete equality of anyone in it.

The practical side of me sees the benefits of the qun. The rest of me wants to eradicate it and everyone who follows it with fire >.< Its a personal thing, I absolutely detest anything that takes away the freedom of choice at any point in a persons life. Slavers are to be purged with fire, even if they are only enslaving themselves >.< Personal issues post, carry on!

[Karlone123]

They bring the expansion of the Qun, selflessness, and true equality. You think they conquer to like the tervinter did? You call them greedy, well I bet they are greedy for wanting to destroy greed.

 

They treat anyone in the Qun with the same respect. Duty. If you are a rich privileged human, obviously you ain't gonna like them. But if you are an elf and you see your entire race being subjugated because of things they cannot control and the situation likely never going to change, the Qun is an option. The Qun is complete equality of anyone in it.

The Qun is a very interesting idealogy, The Arishok's view on Kirlwall of it's corruption and poverty-stricken streets gives more insight into the Qun. For me, parts of the Qun appeal to me as one has a goal given in life as well as a profession of a sort, but some other aspects do not. Given the choice, I may have let the Qunari take over Kirkwall, Maker knows humans cannot do anything good with it.

[Schreckstoff]

They bring the expansion of the Qun, selflessness, and true equality. You think they conquer to like the tervinter did? You call them greedy, well I bet they are greedy for wanting to destroy greed.

 

They treat anyone in the Qun with the same respect. Duty. If you are a rich privileged human, obviously you ain't gonna like them. But if you are an elf and you see your entire race being subjugated because of things they cannot control and the situation likely never going to change, the Qun is an option. The Qun is complete equality of anyone in it.

How can you destroy greed when you yourself are greedy, the Qun shouldn't work for self-aware species as it almost denies self-awareness and free will. 

 

Greed, ambition and envy among other supposedly bad qualities are what makes those who are self aware strive for more which in the end benefits all. The Qun is an easy escape to power and authority not equality. It is greed itself that leads them to the Qun, greed to rise above ones station. 

 

I very much liked the Arishok and it pained me every time to have to kill him. I found myself to agree often with his ideals but I also saw many self centered acts of pride of stubbornness.

[Nyeredzi]

How can you destroy greed when you yourself are greedy, the Qun shouldn't work for self-aware species as it almost denies self-awareness and free will. 

 

Greed, ambition and envy among other supposedly bad qualities are what makes those who are self aware strive for more which in the end benefits all. The Qun is an easy escape to power and authority not equality. It is greed itself that leads them to the Qun, greed to rise above ones station. 

 

I very much liked the Arishok and it pained me every time to have to kill him. I found myself to agree often with his ideals but I also saw many self centered acts of pride of stubbornness.

 

They ain't greedy, that's the whole point of the Qun. They want to eradicate personal greed, along with national greed.

 

The Qun is not like you. Not a nation of Pride, but a society of sheer duty, and true equality.

 

They accept their enemies into their society easily if they convert.

 

They don't enslave them/their descendants for generations, that would be discrimination, a thing the Qun forbids. If they don't convert they are simply killed, or their minds are destroyed and they become mindless husks, instead of conscious slaves.

[Schreckstoff]

They ain't greedy, that's the whole point of the Qun. They want to eradicate personal greed, along with national greed. The Qun is not like you. Not a nation of Pride, but a society of sheer duty, and true equality. They accept their enemies into their society easily if they convert. They don't enslave them/their descendants for generations, that would be discrimination, a thing the Qun forbids. If they don't convert they are simply killed, or their minds are destroyed and they become mindless husks, instead of conscious slaves.

You call it selfless I call it greedy, even if the Qun deems itself above or even against greed doesn't automatically make it so. The Qunari deceive themselves by thinking they are above flaws of self-aware beings. 

 

For the record I call it greedy because they don't believe the Qun is strong enough to succeed through its ideals but have to enforce it. 

[Nyeredzi]

You call it selfless I call it greedy, even if the Qun deems itself above or even against greed doesn't automatically make it so. The Qunari deceive themselves by thinking they are above flaws of self-aware beings. 

 

For the record I call it greedy because they don't believe the Qun is strong enough to succeed through its ideals but have to enforce it. 

The fact that their sole society is where it is today, with its advanced tech  and advanced medicine proves they are better than us.

 

The people of Par Vollen are probably the healthiest, and stable, while down south everything is effed up. I disagree with the way they treat mages though. I think it is very effed up. That's my deal breaker with them.

 

But they take care of mentally disabled, and physically disabled people, which is a good thing, while Thedasians would leave them to their fate.

[Schreckstoff]

The fact that their sole society is where it is today, with its advanced tech  and advanced medicine proves they are better than us.

us?

[Nyeredzi]

us?

thedasians....you ever lived on par vollen?

[Schreckstoff]

thedasians....you ever lived on par vollen?

And I was sure I am european.

[In Exile]

I keep seeing people saying the elves deserved to loose their country just because they weren't "good neighbors" to humans. I'm sorry, but suck it up, buttercup. If a new neighbor moves in and you go over, make nice, ask to come in for tea and talk about your religion so you can convert them, and they say no and shut the door? I'm sorry, but it's their right. It's their home. They don't have to let you in or hear you out if they don't want. If that makes them unfriendly, then stop going over asking to get let in then act offended. Respect their privacy and leave them the hell alone. Don't keep badgering them until it escalates into an open fight, then use the fight as an excuse to forcefully invade, plunder, and rob their home for yourself, leave them homeless despots, then force them to work as servants for you in your household just because they didn't receive you the way you want to be received.

 

Geopolitics isn't reducible to analogies about roomates, the same way that national debt can't be analogized to personal debt. Abstract conversations about rights are meaningless in that sphere - it's why the entire area of international law is basically a joke; because there's absolutely no mechanism for the enforcement of rights, and because significant and huge disparities in power exist. When people talk about being "bad neighbours", well, it's about being stupid and not recognizing just how much you are at the mercy of other people, and how there's no organization in place that will actually protect your rights. It's a shitty reality, but it's reality. The elves certainly ended up being the victims, and in that's horrid, but as a study in politics the Dales took great pains to make themselves a target. 

 

The basic reality is this: Arlathan was a desirable piece of land and a serious geopolitical opponent to a rising empire in Tevinter. The Dales were a fertile, valuable piece of land that served as a natural buffer with another fertile, valuable piece of land (Ferelden) and the elves were culturally, socially, and physically different from their neighbours.

 

As for the bolded part, it was the Dales that forcefully invaded Orlais. Whether or not you think Orlais was the aggressor - and I certainly think that they incited the war with the Dales - it remains an indisputable fact that the Dales invaded and sacked substantial portions of Orlais. They were the victims only because their invasion failed. 

[Schreckstoff]

I keep seeing people saying the elves deserved to loose their country just because they weren't "good neighbors" to humans. I'm sorry, but suck it up, buttercup. If a new neighbor moves in and you go over, make nice, ask to come in for tea and talk about your religion so you can convert them, and they say no and shut the door? I'm sorry, but it's their right. It's their home. They don't have to let you in or hear you out if they don't want. If that makes them unfriendly, then stop going over asking to get let in then act offended. Respect their privacy and leave them the hell alone. Don't keep badgering them until it escalates into an open fight, then use the fight as an excuse to forcefully invade, plunder, and rob their home for yourself, leave them homeless despots, then force them to work as servants for you in your household just because they didn't receive you the way you want to be received.

 

I think when one person badgers another for unwanted attention, the badgerer should respect the badgered's right to be left alone, not the other way around.

 

You can't compare a country to a simple neighbor. A neighbor is a single entity a country is hundreds of thousands individuals forming a society.

[Nyeredzi]

1. Why are you posting huge pics?

 

2. How is the Qun about "equality" if the Qun forbids women from being soldiers, and forbids men from priestly/religious duties? And how does, "slaughter those who disagree" fit into your equality claim?

 

3. It is NOT a society of sheer duty. If it were a society of sheer duty, Sten would not have been afraid of going back to Par Vollen without his sword. Ascribing such unnatural value to a tool goes far beyond simply duty.

1. I dunno, its probably the site.

 

2. Talis.

No lies. Women are just as capable as men, but men are better suited for aggressive, disgusting, dumb-ass things. I'm not trying to be offensive. If women become priests, they have less chances of touching little boys, and those that they touch...well, I bet they will be happy little boys. 

 

"Slaughter those who disagree" is their practical solution to protect the Qun, their Perfect Equality. Heck don't humans slaughter those who don't agree with them along with those who agree with them (racism/nationalism etc). It's because humans (and elves, dwarves, even qunari) hate what is different, and thus the Qun tries to cut out the garbage, and potential things that lead to that sort of garbage.

 

3 You are probably right on this one. They have their own foolishness there. They probably do it to remind soldiers their duty, the reason they are. If you forget your duty you forget your life. Again, I agree that its not a good way of handling it. They try to be perfect.

[Nyeredzi]

2. Tallis is a terrible example. She breaks the Qun. Also, did you really just say that molestation is okay if the adult is a woman? Did you REALLY just say that?

 

It's only more of the same to kill them. As Schreckstoff said, if the Qun is right it shouldn't need to slaughter all others to prove it. How is it that it's wrong for humans to do it, but not wrong for the Qun?

Well, one man's dream is another man's nightmare... I was joking about that stuff.

 

The Qun does it so that it never occurs again. If the qun conquers thedas, everyone will be forced to accept each other, their roles. There won't be much, if any, national wars, and the chaos and poverty in thedas will be gone.

[Daerog]

That whole neighbor/roommate analogy doesn't completely work.

 

The case was more like:

 

Elv has lots of room in building, allows 8 humans to live there (Barindur, Neromenian, Qarinus, Tevinter, Alamarri, Ciriane, Inghirsh, and Planasene). Bar, Nero, Qar, and Tev are part of a new, exclusive social club and think they are cooler. Bar sadly gets cancer and dies. Tev, Qar, and Nero are so close and never separated, people start calling them Tev-qar-nero, eventually just Tev. Nero gets in fight with Ing, Ing doesn't talk much afterwards and just hangs out with Ciri and Plana.

 

All the while this is happening, Elv just goes about usual business and studies while ignoring the drama happening around, but sometimes has small talks with the others during breakfast. Tev starts pushing the other neighbors around, rumors of being part of some gang circulate. Tev starts extorting money from Ciri and Plana and usually getting into fights with Alam. Elv stays out of it, not even trying to use any authority or influence. Tev gets enough influence in the neighborhood through shady deals and intimidation, that Tev decides to just take ownership of the building, Elv objects, Tev starts beating the hell out of Elv, Ciri and Plana are too scared to do anything and Alam doesn't feel obligation to help and is still recovering from previous squabbles. Tev throws Elv out into the street.

 

Alam will eventually get strong enough due to a new gym membership for joining a new, inclusive, social club, invites Elv to join up and helps the others get out of being extorted, beats up Tev, Tev now just stays in his room. Alam goes back to his room, and Ciri takes over to daily business of the building. Elv gets a new room, but slightly bitter over no longer able to be the one running things, refuses to join the new club, Ciri is club president and kind of annoying about it. As Plana and Alam get back from shopping one day, they notice a door is broken and some holes in the walls, Elv has some bruises, but Ciri is on the floor bleeding with a broken nose and screams that Elv went crazy and attacked her. Alam and Plana know Ciri more, and while hesitant, call the cops, Elv gets charged with assault. Now elv just walks around the neighborhood, sometimes running across Ciri, Alam, Tev, and Plana, but it just became a very tense relationship and bitterness from all sides continues.

[Nyeredzi]

That whole neighbor/roommate analogy doesn't completely work.

 

The case was more like:

 

Elv has lots of room in building, allows 8 humans to live there (Barindur, Neromenian, Qarinus, Tevinter, Alamarri, Ciriane, Inghirsh, and Planasene). Bar, Nero, Qar, and Tev are part of a new, exclusive social club and think they are cooler. Bar sadly gets cancer and dies. Tev, Qar, and Nero are so close and never separated, people start calling them Tev-qar-nero, eventually just Tev. Nero gets in fight with Ing, Ing doesn't talk much afterwards and just hangs out with Ciri and Plana.

 

All the while this is happening, Elv just goes about usual business and studies while ignoring the drama happening around, but sometimes has small talks with the others during breakfast. Tev starts pushing the other neighbors around, rumors of being part of some gang circulate. Tev starts extorting money from Ciri and Plana and usually getting into fights with Alam. Elv stays out of it, not even trying to use any authority or influence. Tev gets enough influence in the neighborhood through shady deals and intimidation, that Tev decides to just take ownership of the building, Elv objects, Tev starts beating the hell out of Elv, Ciri and Plana are too scared to do anything and Alam doesn't feel obligation to help and is still recovering from previous squabbles. Tev throws Elv out into the street.

 

Alam will eventually get strong enough due to a new gym membership for joining a new, inclusive, social club, invites Elv to join up and helps the others get out of being extorted, beats up Tev, Tev now just stays in his room. Alam goes back to his room, and Ciri takes over to daily business of the building. Elv gets a new room, but slightly bitter over no longer able to be the one running things, refuses to join the new club, Ciri is club president and kind of annoying about it. As Plana and Alam get back from shopping one day, they notice a door is broken and some holes in the walls, Elv has some bruises, but Ciri is on the floor bleeding with a broken nose and screams that Elv went crazy and attacked her. Alam and Plana know Ciri more, and while hesitant, call the cops, Elv gets charged with assault. Now elv just walks around the neighborhood, sometimes running across Ciri, Alam, Tev, and Plana, but it just became a very tense relationship and bitterness from all sides continues.

Best damn explanation I've read.

 

I see now.

[Nyeredzi]

You know what? Eff the Qun, eff the humans, eff the elves, eff the dwarves. Thedas is f*cked.