231 réponses à ce sujet

[Schreckstoff]

Well, one man's dream is another man's nightmare... I was joking about that stuff.

 

The Qun does it so that it never occurs again. If the qun conquers thedas, everyone will be forced to accept each other, their roles. There won't be much, if any, national wars, and the chaos and poverty in thedas will be gone.

That isn't true there are many who renounced the Qun or followed it outside it's authorities. It's also doubtful the Qun will never be subject to different interpretations resulting in two or more groups that'll eventually wage war against each other, or fights over authority under the guise of following the Qun. Believe never hindered intrigue.

[Daerog]

You know what? Eff the Qun, eff the humans, eff the elves, eff the dwarves. Thedas is f*cked.

 

Glory to the Ghast! The true masters of Thedas, who just sit and watch the other groups fight each other. They also invented popcorn.

[BronzTrooper]

Wanting to be left alone doesn't work and will always create malice, especially if there are nation spanning problems at large. It's an either you're with us or you're against us situation.

 

4 applies to every humanoid species in DA. Dwarves, Elves. Qunari all are greedy, all want more than they have, all see the other races below them, none of this is leased by humans.

 

There is no true 'you're with us or against us' situation.  In the minds of those involved in whatever conflict, maybe, but from an objective view?  No.  There are shades of grey everywhere.  There is no true black and white situation.  And really, not getting involved in a conflict that has nothing to do with you is often better than choosing sides, especially when you don't know the whole story.  If you don't want to take sides and one side goes after you, they're either paranoid that you're prepping to side with the opposing side, or you're going to jump in when both sides are weakened, thus dragging you into the conflict anyway.  Besides, paranoia is another part of human nature.  It keeps us alive, yes, but it also can make us take unnecessary actions.

 

Yes, every race can be subject to those traits, but that doesn't mean that it is consistent throughout most of their people.  The qunari (the race themselves, not the followers of the Qun) are either Tal-Vashoth (those who reject the Qun), Qunari (those who follow the Qun), or Vashoth (those who grew up without the Qun).  Since most qunari grew up learning the Qun, the majority of their race is not greedy.  What we've seen of them does not represent their people as a whole.  As for the Tal-Vashoth, it varies.  And the Vashoth?  Again, it varies.

 

The dwarves are down to just 2 cities out of their original 12.  They merely want to reclaim what they lost to the darkspawn.  Their race is backed into a corner.  Financially, they're fine.  In terms of population?  They're on the verge of extinction when compared to the most more numerous humans.  If they wanted to conquer the surface, I could understand you're reason.  But all they want is to reclaim what was lost.

 

The elves are either crammed into cities, surrounded by humans who treat them like trash, or are travelling vagrants, not welcome anywhere.  The city elves simply want to be treated as being equal to humans.  The Dalish want to reclaim all the culture that was lost.  There are no elven nobles.  They are considered to be the bottom rung of human society.  I'd go as far as to say that they are considered to be even lower than that.

 

Humans, however, are the most wide-spread and most numerous out of all the races in Thedas.  They have the power everywhere except Par Vollen and they still want more.  The definition of greed is wanting more than is needed.  Do the qunari, dwarves, or elves want as much as the humans do, and/or have it?  No.  The humans have more land, more power, more money, and more people than every other race in Thedas combined, yet they still want more.

 

As for the arrogance, I'll give you that.  Then again, most people like to believe that they are better at certain things than others.  Does that carry over to other races?  Possibly.

 

For aggression, humans have every other race beat.  Do you see the dwarves declaring war on surfacers?  No.

 

The Qunari are mostly a peaceful people from the way Tallis describes them in MotA.

 

The Dalish are somewhat aggressive towards humans, but understandably so, considering what's happened in the past.  They are mostly wary of humans, anyway.

 

City elves?  It really depends.  On the whole, they aren't aggressive.  There are some who tend to be aggressive, sure, but on the whole?  No.

[Schreckstoff]

There is no true 'you're with us or against us' situation.  In the minds of those involved in whatever conflict, maybe, but from an objective view?  No.  There are shades of grey everywhere.  There is no true black and white situation.  And really, not getting involved in a conflict that has nothing to do with you is often better than choosing sides, especially when you don't know the whole story.  If you don't want to take sides and one side goes after you, they're either paranoid that you're prepping to side with the opposing side, or you're going to jump in when both sides are weakened, thus dragging you into the conflict anyway.  Besides, paranoia is another part of human nature.  It keeps us alive, yes, but it also can make us take unnecessary actions.

 

Yes, every race can be subject to those traits, but that doesn't mean that it is consistent throughout most of their people.  The qunari (the race themselves, not the followers of the Qun) are either Tal-Vashoth (those who reject the Qun), Qunari (those who follow the Qun), or Vashoth (those who grew up without the Qun).  Since most qunari grew up learning the Qun, the majority of their race is not greedy.  What we've seen of them does not represent their people as a whole.  As for the Tal-Vashoth, it varies.  And the Vashoth?  Again, it varies.

 

The dwarves are down to just 2 cities out of their original 12.  They merely want to reclaim what they lost to the darkspawn.  Their race is backed into a corner.  Financially, they're fine.  In terms of population?  They're on the verge of extinction when compared to the most more numerous humans.  If they wanted to conquer the surface, I could understand you're reason.  But all they want is to reclaim what was lost.

 

The elves are either crammed into cities, surrounded by humans who treat them like trash, or are travelling vagrants, not welcome anywhere.  The city elves simply want to be treated as being equal to humans.  The Dalish want to reclaim all the culture that was lost.  There are no elven nobles.  They are considered to be the bottom rung of human society.  I'd go as far as to say that they are considered to be even lower than that.

 

Humans, however, are the most wide-spread and most numerous out of all the races in Thedas.  They have the power everywhere except Par Vollen and they still want more.  The definition of greed is wanting more than is needed.  Do the qunari, dwarves, or elves want as much as the humans do, and/or have it?  No.  The humans have more land, more power, more money, and more people than every other race in Thedas combined, yet they still want more.

 

As for the arrogance, I'll give you that.  Then again, most people like to believe that they are better at certain things than others.  Does that carry over to other races?  Possibly.

 

For aggression, humans have every other race beat.  Do you see the dwarves declaring war on surfacers?  No.

 

The Qunari are mostly a peaceful people from the way Tallis describes them in MotA.

 

The Dalish are somewhat aggressive towards humans, but understandably so, considering what's happened in the past.  They are mostly wary of humans, anyway.

 

City elves?  It really depends.  On the whole, they aren't aggressive.  There are some who tend to be aggressive, sure, but on the whole?  No.

I don't want to go over all of this again but essentially the Qun can itself be considered greedy through demanding forceful conversion and expansion. Also believe never stopped anyone from acting upon their flaws.

 

The Dwarves are especially greedy, they want back their former glory and are willing to sacrifice their very soul for it. They don't seem to reflect on their past mistakes and given the chance will try to reclaim it which will leave them unable to hold any of it once again.

[Nyeredzi]

There is no true 'you're with us or against us' situation.  In the minds of those involved in whatever conflict, maybe, but from an objective view?  No.  There are shades of grey everywhere.  There is no true black and white situation.  And really, not getting involved in a conflict that has nothing to do with you is often better than choosing sides, especially when you don't know the whole story.  If you don't want to take sides and one side goes after you, they're either paranoid that you're prepping to side with the opposing side, or you're going to jump in when both sides are weakened, thus dragging you into the conflict anyway.  Besides, paranoia is another part of human nature.  It keeps us alive, yes, but it also can make us take unnecessary actions.

 

Yes, every race can be subject to those traits, but that doesn't mean that it is consistent throughout most of their people.  The qunari (the race themselves, not the followers of the Qun) are either Tal-Vashoth (those who reject the Qun), Qunari (those who follow the Qun), or Vashoth (those who grew up without the Qun).  Since most qunari grew up learning the Qun, the majority of their race is not greedy.  What we've seen of them does not represent their people as a whole.  As for the Tal-Vashoth, it varies.  And the Vashoth?  Again, it varies.

 

The dwarves are down to just 2 cities out of their original 12.  They merely want to reclaim what they lost to the darkspawn.  Their race is backed into a corner.  Financially, they're fine.  In terms of population?  They're on the verge of extinction when compared to the most more numerous humans.  If they wanted to conquer the surface, I could understand you're reason.  But all they want is to reclaim what was lost.

 

The elves are either crammed into cities, surrounded by humans who treat them like trash, or are travelling vagrants, not welcome anywhere.  The city elves simply want to be treated as being equal to humans.  The Dalish want to reclaim all the culture that was lost.  There are no elven nobles.  They are considered to be the bottom rung of human society.  I'd go as far as to say that they are considered to be even lower than that.

 

Humans, however, are the most wide-spread and most numerous out of all the races in Thedas.  They have the power everywhere except Par Vollen and they still want more.  The definition of greed is wanting more than is needed.  Do the qunari, dwarves, or elves want as much as the humans do, and/or have it?  No.  The humans have more land, more power, more money, and more people than every other race in Thedas combined, yet they still want more.

 

As for the arrogance, I'll give you that.  Then again, most people like to believe that they are better at certain things than others.  Does that carry over to other races?  Possibly.

 

For aggression, humans have every other race beat.  Do you see the dwarves declaring war on surfacers?  No.

 

The Qunari are mostly a peaceful people from the way Tallis describes them in MotA.

 

The Dalish are somewhat aggressive towards humans, but understandably so, considering what's happened in the past.  They are mostly wary of humans, anyway.

 

City elves?  It really depends.  On the whole, they aren't aggressive.  There are some who tend to be aggressive, sure, but on the whole?  No.

Be my mind

[TheLittleBird]

*snip*

 

The problem is, though, that dividing races into groups like that creates a "with us or against us"-situation.

[BronzTrooper]

The problem is, though, that dividing races into groups like that creates a "with us or against us"-situation.

 

They can be objectively separated into groups, though.

[TheLittleBird]

They can be objectively separated into groups, though.

 

And then?

Every race still is humanoid, for a lack of a better word. They all have the same psychology, as far as we know. That of humans. Deep down, every single one of those people is greedy, arrogant and aggressive. Our psychology applies to them.

 

But you said:

"Yes, every race can be subject to those traits, but that doesn't mean that it is consistent throughout most of their people." That's true of humans as well. Why separate them?

 

Sorry if this seems like a post lacking in any good arguments, but trying to get into the discussion here.

[BronzTrooper]

I don't want to go over all of this again but essentially the Qun can itself be considered greedy through demanding forceful conversion and expansion. Also believe never stopped anyone from acting upon their flaws.

 

The Dwarves are especially greedy, they want back their former glory and are willing to sacrifice their very soul for it. They don't seem to reflect on their past mistakes and given the chance will try to reclaim it which will leave them unable to hold any of it once again.

 

You know what?  I don't feel like getting into a religious debate about the Qun.

 

Like I said, the dwarves are backed into a corner.  The only reason they lost their other 10 cities was due to the unrelenting force of the darkspawn hordes.  They want back their former glory, something they already had.  I wouldn't consider that to be greed.

[Nyeredzi]

And then?

Every race still is humanoid, for a lack of a better word. They all have the same psychology, as far as we know. That of humans. Deep down, every single one of those people is greedy, arrogant and aggressive. Our psychology applies to them.

 

But you said:

"Yes, every race can be subject to those traits, but that doesn't mean that it is consistent throughout most of their people." That's true of humans as well. Why separate them?

 

Sorry if this seems like a post lacking in any good arguments, but trying to get into the discussion here.

The Qun teaches strict discipline, and duty above those feelings. It teaches unity among the Qunari regardless of race.

[Daerog]

Every group is mostly peaceful if we are talking about individuals. As most are just trying to survive and live their lives.

 

The Qunari are mostly peaceful... besides eventually declaring war and annexing every other society they meet. The same can be said of humanity as well, except they don't need to be one single nation, they don't all plan on taking over the world. Not all qunari agree with the Qunari, not all humans agree with some of the human nations. The dwarves don't declare war on the surface because of tradition, religion, and culture reasons moreso than a disinterest because they do want to trade with the surface and show an interest in its goods. Also, they are one nation, but they weren't always one nation (conquering thaigs), and even as one nation the noble houses still have their own Game that is sometimes violent. Also, they have the arena, they are as violent as the surface species. Also, they are unable to attack the surface as they are at constant war with the Darkspawn, and they are totally cool with killing off elves if it keeps them in good graces with trade partners. The Dalish kill humans who just happen to wander too close, the city elves harass humans if they have the advantage. Elves one could say are the most peaceful, but that is because they don't have as much opportunity as others. Give them all equal footing, they will all be aggressive equally.

 

Humans just seem the most aggressive because there are more of them, they have the ability/opportunity to be aggressive more often, and they are more divided than any other species.

 

Also, just wanted to note that people of Thedas don't always group themselves by species/race, but by culture or nation, as Zevran considered himself Antivan first. An Orlesian my have prejudice towards elves but consider Fereldans worse. Avvars and Chasind aren't very popular either.

[BronzTrooper]

And then?

Every race still is humanoid, for a lack of a better word. They all have the same psychology, as far as we know. That of humans. Deep down, every single one of those people is greedy, arrogant and aggressive. Our psychology applies to them.

 

But you said:

"Yes, every race can be subject to those traits, but that doesn't mean that it is consistent throughout most of their people." That's true of humans as well. Why separate them?

 

Sorry if this seems like a post lacking in any good arguments, but trying to get into the discussion here.

 

Humanoid means that they are similar to humans in body style.  2 arms, 2 legs, 2 hands, etc.  It doesn't include psychology.  Yes, everyone can have those feelings, but not everyone acts on them.

 

Humans show those traits more often than not.  Most people don't want to admit it, but it's true.  Look at humans in ME, DA, and real life.  In ME, humanity's first contact with aliens resulted in a war.  Afterwards, they thought they had more of a right to be part of the Council than any other race.  In DA, humans (namely Tevinter) conquered Arlathan.  A few hundred years after the elves got the Dales, humans conquered them again, this time calling them heathens.   IRL?  Just look at all the wars throughout history.

[Daerog]

The Qun = Equilibrium (the movie)

 

They can try to suppress individuality as much as they want, but it doesn't always work, even those who are born into it. We'll see more about this with Iron Bull.

[leaguer of one]

 

 

2. How is the Qun about "equality" if the Qun forbids women from being soldiers, and forbids men from priestly/religious duties? And how does, "slaughter those who disagree" fit into your equality claim?

 

3. It is NOT a society of sheer duty. If it were a society of sheer duty, Sten would not have been afraid of going back to Par Vollen without his sword. Ascribing such unnatural value to a tool goes far beyond simply duty.

2. Men can be priest and the issue with woman in the army is based on efficancy not that woman are lesser. And qunari don't slaughter. Fenris tells you what they do to people who refuse the qun.

 

3. No, that means it's a society of duty.

[Daerog]

Humanoid means that they are similar to humans in body style.  2 arms, 2 legs, 2 hands, etc.  It doesn't include psychology.  Yes, everyone can have those feelings, but not everyone acts on them.

 

Humans show those traits more often than not.  Most people don't want to admit it, but it's true.  Look at humans in ME, DA, and real life.  In ME, humanity's first contact with aliens resulted in a war.  Afterwards, they thought they had more of a right to be part of the Council than any other race.  In DA, humans (namely Tevinter) conquered Arlathan.  A few hundred years after the elves got the Dales, humans conquered them again, this time calling them heathens.   IRL?  Just look at all the wars throughout history.

 

Ya, it's a common trope, humans being the most aggressive or expansionist. Real life examples are useless as there is no other intelligent species to compare with (that's on earth, is material, and known to all people).

 

However, we see very "human" traits in all the species, and they don't show any trait that would be thought of as not human.

[Nyeredzi]

All I got to say is, the Qunari males have it rough. They must fapp like crazy, or be angry as fack because of their breeding rules.

 

What if you don't even get chosen for reproduction, ever.

 

Man, those poor bastards have the self control of the gods.

 

[Gtdef]

I think the dwarves are way more aggressive than humans. Humans treat elves like crap because of their history. Dwarves treat their own people that aren't born into castes worse than animals. Their whole history is a black spot. Forcing casteless into golems? You don't see that kind of cruelty and hate in any other species. For humans it's mostly reserved for the tyrants and high ranking officials. For dwarves it's commonplace.

 

Their whole culture is based on sacrifice. Golems, legion of the dead, a father that wants his daughter to sacrifice her newborn in order to take her back into the family. In awakening the same trend continues. Whole thaigs were left to fall with the darkspawn without even a call to arms.

 

If dwarves weren't caught up with their darkspawn problems, they would do untold horrors in the surface world. They are the most efficient and ruthless race by far. At least humans care about control. They don't care about individual peasants, but they want to keep them around and entertain the notion of justice. It's mostly hypocrisy but it's something. Also they have the concept of charity. They have the Chantry that cares. Sure they have an agenda, but still it's something. Dwarves are totally uncompromising. If you are castleless you either join the carta or you die alone in the slums and the others don't even recognize you as the same race. The only way to be held in esteem is to die fighting darkspawn in the legion of the dead.

 

Their religious belief support efficiency and ruthlessness too. There is no judgement, no soul searching. You are either important as a crafter, warrior or politician, or the ancestors will be displeased. A devout dwarf is compelled to disregard any value in sentient life if it will allow him to achieve more.

 

I don't really understand why people think humans are worse. Unless it's some kind of criticizing ourselves with the game as a medium.

[Schreckstoff]

All I got to say is, the Qunari males have it rough. They must fapp like crazy, or be angry as fack because of their breeding rules.

What if you don't even get chosen for reproduction, ever.

Man, those poor bastards have the self control of the gods.

Depends on their attitude towards homosexuality but honestly a religion that denies one an identity let alone free will (besides choosing to die instead of following the Qun) shouldn't have it hard to deny them masturbation.

[Nyeredzi]

Depends on their attitude towards homosexuality but honestly a religion that denies one an identity let alone free will (besides choosing to die instead of following the Qun) shouldn't have it hard to deny them masturbation.

Random Qunari soldier: ....."Pashera, thought he'd never leave. Now I'm all alone.... "

 

.........

 

Random Qunari soldier: "Come to think of it ......It's been a while since I've seen the Tamassran.."

 

 

.........must not...can not...for..the Qun-

 

Random Qunari soldier: "......"Sod it!" *Removes armor, and gets busy...*

 

*The door opens as the Arishok (Sten) returns*

 

Arishok: "Pashera!!

 

Random Qunari soldier: "EEE!!"

 

Arishok: "No!!"

 

*Draws sword.*

 

Arishok: "Defend your self!!"

[Steelcan]

@OP, the elves when they had their own nation attacked Orlais and sacked Val Royeaux, they later lost the war and were returned to a quasi enslaved state.

Historically elves had been slaves under are inter, but magical ability was more important, elves can be citizens in the Imperium. The historical rivalry extends back to Arlathan which was essentially an elven Tiventer.


Dwarves conversely have never warred extensively with humans, instead they maintained strong trade relations with both Tevinter and the Chantry

[Daerog]

Arishok - leads the armies, always male.

Arigena - leads the craftsmen, always female.

Ariqun - leads the priesthood, either sex.

[Batknight]

The Tevinter Imperium's edge was its magic. Dwarves are resistant to magic. Not to mention that human and elven troops sent into the Deep Roads to fight dwarves are going to have serious disadvantages. What will they eat? How will they fight effectively in tunnels? Mounted units and archers will be far less useful.

How do you handle hygiene for an army when there's no rivers or space? You're going to get lots of waste building up.

Well, I never said it would've been easy. But these were the same people who were powerful enough to destroy a entire civilization and sink cities. I don't care how  resistant dwarves are to magic, there's no way they could've stood against that kind of power.

[metalfenix]

What the hell did elves ever do to humans? Are humans just nasty boshtets, cause if it is racism, I say it is childish and disgusting. If I lived in the dragon age universe, and I was a normal, average elf who has nothing I would join the Qun. Eff eternal poverty, everyone is equal in the Qun. Better chances of survival, and a life of respect and dignity. Off to Par Vollen.

 

Anyone got a better solution for the elves?

 

If you are a mage (no matter the race) you will be taken down. Maybe they can make you serve with your mouth sewed, but I suspect they only do that to qunari mages.