954 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

I see good things in all three of them.

 

Sucks for me.

I know they have some good qualities, doesn't mean they still can't be terrible people. I think they are all good characters.

[The Elder King]

The most likely in my mind right now is having the Inquisitor pressure Celene into a peace advantageous for the city elves, and potentially an independent Dales.

I don't think the former is something she'd want (or that she'd trust Celene to keep it). And in all honesty, I don't she'd want to make a deal with either contenders.

[The Elder King]

Good traits and bad traits, but..
 
I see all of their main concerns and goals as good. Celene's dream is academic in a way. She wants an enlightened future for Orlais. Gaspard wants a safe one, and sees Celene as not as prepared, Briala wants justice for elves.

Well, I don't see their goals as bad either. Their approach or the action they're willing to commit aren't good though.
Which is fine. War is ugly.

[Xilizhra]

I don't think the former is something she'd want (or that she'd trust Celene to keep it). And in all honesty, I don't she'd want to make a deal with either contenders.

It may not be ideal, but it seems the most likely. But what do you think she would aim to accomplish in that case?

[The Elder King]

It may not be ideal, but it seems the most likely. But what do you think she would aim to accomplish in that case?

She wants elven freedom. As to how she'd proceed to obtain in the case the Inquisition support her, I have no clue. They haven't talked or implied of a third path in the OCW so far (while they talked about a possible armistice between Gaspard and Celene).

[Xilizhra]

She wants elven freedom. As to how she'd proceed to obtain in the case the Inquisition support her, I have no clue. They haven't talked or implied of a third path in the OCW so far (while they talked about a possible armistice between Gaspard and Celene).

I figured the previous deal with Celene might lead to elven freedom.

[The Elder King]

I figured the previous deal with Celene might lead to elven freedom.

Assuming Celene is willing to deal with Briala now.

[Xilizhra]

Assuming Celene is willing to deal with Briala now.

I feel the only way to redeem TME's plot is to get them to reconcile, which is why I've managed to restrain my utter hatred for it thus far to a reasonable extent.

[MisterJB]

What is "elven freedom"?

Elves are free in anywhere that is not Tevinter. They are second class citizens, more vulnerable to all sorts of abuse by those in power than humans because people don't care what happens to them but I don't believe there is any law restricting their rights.

So, what is "elven freedom"? How do you achieve it? Try to break the Dales away from the Orlesian Empire and hope they can hold it against everyone else in Thedas?

[The Elder King]

She still loves her.
 
Love conquers all, right?
 
right?

She has Morrigan as an advisor now. Who knows what advice she'll give her .

[AresKeith]

I feel the only way to redeem TME's plot is to get them to reconcile, which is why I've managed to restrain my utter hatred for it thus far to a reasonable extent.

 

Yet you still refuse to read the book

[Xilizhra]

Yet you still refuse to read the book

It may surprise you from my behavior on the forums, but I don't actually enjoy being gripped by paroxysms of impotent rage.

[The Elder King]

I feel the only way to redeem TME's plot is to get them to reconcile, which is why I've managed to restrain my utter hatred for it thus far to a reasonable extent.

  
I know your reasons and I understand them, though I'm personally indifferent if they'll reconcile or not.
In the case they will, though, i don't think It'd be Good (well, depending on your views) think for An hyphotethical indipendant Dales, since it might reduce it to an Orlesian protectorate.

What is "elven freedom"?
Elves are free in anywhere that is not Tevinter. They are second class citizens, more vulnerable to all sorts of abuse by those in power than humans because people don't care what happens to them but I don't believe there is any law restricting their rights.
So, what is "elven freedom"? How do you achieve it? Try to break the Dales away from the Orlesian Empire and hope they can hold it against everyone else in Thedas?

Yeah, I meant elven indipendence, not freedom. And your post makes a good point in how difficult it'll be for them to mantain their indipendence.
We'll see how the plots around the OCW will be developed in DAI.

[Lucijenifer]

What is "elven freedom"?

Elves are free in anywhere that is not Tevinter. They are second class citizens, more vulnerable to all sorts of abuse by those in power than humans because people don't care what happens to them but I don't believe there is any law restricting their rights.

So, what is "elven freedom"? How do you achieve it? Try to break the Dales away from the Orlesian Empire and hope they can hold it against everyone else in Thedas?

 

I'd assume it's the right to a sovereign nation of their own where elves are not considered second class citizens or outsiders, a place where they are free to be elves without threat of persecution. Perhaps freedom is the wrong word in this situation but in every human nation, elves do live under the dominion of humanity and they aren't really 'free.' They're not slaves but they certainly don't have control of their lives in the way that human citizens do.

[Xilizhra]

  
I know your reasons and I understand them, though I'm personally indifferent if they'll reconcile or not.
In the case they will, though, i don't think It'd be Good (well, depending on your views) think for An hyphotethical indipendant Dales, since it might reduce it to an Orlesian protectorate.

It may be the best option available, though. And Orlais might not be powerful enough to interfere in its affairs too much.

[The Elder King]

It may be the best option available, though. And Orlais might not be powerful enough to interfere in its affairs too much.

It won't be able now. Celene and Briala won't live forever.

[Dean_the_Young]

It may surprise you from my behavior on the forums, but I don't actually enjoy being gripped by paroxysms of impotent rage.

 

On the other hand, if you read the book you might (or might not) be gripped by paroxysms of impotent rage at what is actually there, rather than repeatedly putting yourself in the grip of paroxysms of impotent rage at what and how you imagine it to be.

 

At the very least, you'd avoid saying silly things like

 

 

The most likely in my mind right now is having the Inquisitor pressure Celene into a peace advantageous for the city elves, and potentially an independent Dales.

 

which only advertise you ignorance of the characters involved. I know it's been pointed out to you, multiple times, that neither Briala or the city elf rebellion have been portrayed as part or even sympathetic towards the idea of a secessionist movement

[Lucijenifer]

It may be the best option available, though. And Orlais might not be powerful enough to interfere in its affairs too much.

 

But if Orlais is too weak to interfere with it or protect it, what is to stop a nation like Tevinter from taking advantage of a new, isolated elven nation with no one around to hinder them?

[Xilizhra]

On the other hand, if you read the book you might (or might not) be gripped by paroxysms of impotent rage at what is actually there, rather than repeatedly putting yourself in the grip of paroxysms of impotent rage at what and how you imagine it to be.

 

At the very least, you'd avoid saying silly things like

 

 

which only advertise you ignorance of the characters involved. I know it's been pointed out to you, multiple times, that neither Briala or the city elf rebellion have been portrayed as part or even sympathetic towards the idea of a secessionist movement

Well, not in the book. However, it doesn't seem so unlikely that the lines will be drawn more starkly in the actual game, for the purpose of easier drama--either way, that's why I said "potentially" because it could also just follow the book.

 

But if Orlais is too weak to interfere with it or protect it, what is to stop a nation like Tevinter from taking advantage of a new, isolated elven nation with no one around to hinder them?

The qunari, as it has been for centuries.

[Lucijenifer]

The qunari, as it has been for centuries.

 

The efforts of the Qunari haven't stopped agents of Tevinter from trying to acquire slaves through under-handed methods across Thedas. With a new, vulnerable and independent dale that needs time to assert itself around, the Tevinter Imperium is left with a far more suitable target for their efforts. You're right, the constant war with the Qunari keeps Tevinter from mounting an all-out invasion on an independent elven nation but it'd their agents a new target, ripe for plucking.

 

Elves do need to affiliate themselves with someone if they want to be protected from predatory forces like the Imperium.

[Xilizhra]

The efforts of the Qunari haven't stopped agents of Tevinter from trying to acquire slaves through under-handed methods across Thedas. With a new, vulnerable and independent dale that needs time to assert itself around, the Tevinter Imperium is left with a far more suitable target for their efforts. You're right, the constant war with the Qunari keeps Tevinter from mounting an all-out invasion on an independent elven nation but it'd their agents a new target, ripe for plucking.

 

Elves do need to affiliate themselves with someone if they want to be protected from predatory forces like the Imperiuim.

Objectively speaking, it'd probably be best for the elves to take an societal advantage in Orlesian peace, but something like a degree of regional autonomy for the Dales would be ideal as well.