Guest_StreetMagic_*
Briala and Celene had plans of integration and education for elves. Not seperate countries. That's more of a Dalish dream. And some of them are assh*les who don't even think city elves are their "people" anyways.
I'd like a little of both personally.
Objectively speaking, it'd probably be best for the elves to take an societal advantage in Orlesian peace, but something like a degree of regional autonomy for the Dales would be ideal as well.
I doubt there will be a situation where they'll obtain both. The best our Inquisitor can hope to do is ensure that elves are treated in a more humane fashion in the future. The threat of Tevinter's slavers will always be looming so throwing them out into the wild to fend for themselves in the Dales seems like a really bad idea.
Well, not in the book. However, it doesn't seem so unlikely that the lines will be drawn more starkly in the actual game, for the purpose of easier drama--either way, that's why I said "potentially" because it could also just follow the book.
You also said 'most likely' for an argument about Celene that falls on its face when you read Briala's reason for why she broke with Celene in the first place.
You also said 'most likely' for an argument about Celene that falls on its face when you read Briala's reason for why she broke with Celene in the first place.
I still figured it was more likely than an arrangement with Gaspard, or Briala somehow becoming Empress herself.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I still figured it was more likely than an arrangement with Gaspard, or Briala somehow becoming Empress herself.
No. If you want to be spoiled, I'll do it, but I'd recommend the book.
No. If you want to be spoiled, I'll do it, but I'd recommend the book.
I know what their issues are, but even with all of them, I can't imagine Gaspard would allow the image and perceived security of his nation to be sullied by anything, including greater elven integration.
I still figured it was more likely than an arrangement with Gaspard, or Briala somehow becoming Empress herself.
If you read the book you would understand that an arrangement with Gaspard is far more likely to be upheld, and why.
If you read the book you would understand that an arrangement with Gaspard is far more likely to be upheld, and why.
To be upheld? Quite possibly. My issue is with that arrangement ever being made in the first place--why, in short, would Gaspard make any compromises on this matter?
I know what their issues are, but even with all of them, I can't imagine Gaspard would allow the image and perceived security of his nation to be sullied by anything, including greater elven integration.
Possibly because you haven't read from the book to learn what Gaspard is, as opposed to what you imagine him to be.
Gaspard's bargains are a matter of honor. If he gives his word, he will uphold the letter and spirit even if others disapprove and even if it comes at a severe cost to himself and the nation. The entire civil war plotline would have been cut short had he even just obeyed the letter and not the spirit.
Gaspard doesn't care about the elves, but he is not anti-elf or human purist either.
To be upheld? Quite possibly. My issue is with that arrangement ever being made in the first place--why, in short, would Gaspard make any compromises on this matter?
Because there's a civil war going on that he wants to win.
Duh.
Because there's a civil war going on that he wants to win.
Would a civil war be worth winning if it'd mean changing one of the fundamental facets of your nation?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Would a civil war be worth winning if it'd mean changing one of the fundamental facets of your nation?
His nation will change a lot more if he doesn't win. Compared to both Celene and Briala, he's a conservative.
Possibly because you haven't read from the book to learn what Gaspard is, as opposed to what you imagine him to be.
Gaspard's bargains are a matter of honor. If he gives his word, he will uphold the letter and spirit even if others disapprove and even if it comes at a severe cost to himself and the nation. The entire civil war plotline would have been cut short had he even just obeyed the letter and not the spirit.
Gaspard doesn't care about the elves, but he is not anti-elf or human purist either.
I didn't expect him to be. The problem is that he's an Orlesian ultranationalist who hates anything that might make his nation look weak. I don't expect that he'd hate compromising with the elves more than he'd hate compromising with some human minority that was somehow un-Orlesian in its outlook or image, but I don't think he'd compromise with either.
Would a civil war be worth winning if it'd mean changing one of the fundamental facets of your nation?
Certainly. Most civil wars occur precisely because someone wants to change some fundamental facet of the nation.
Now, as far the Orlais perspective goes, there we would have to determine what Gaspard believes the fundamental facets of the nation are, and which ones he wants to preserve, which he opposses, and what he is ambivalent and doesn't care about.
Then, and only then, would you try to fit 'elven reforms' into one of them.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I didn't expect him to be. The problem is that he's an Orlesian ultranationalist who hates anything that might make his nation look weak. I don't expect that he'd hate compromising with the elves more than he'd hate compromising with some human minority that was somehow un-Orlesian in its outlook or image, but I don't think he'd compromise with either.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't call him an ultranationalist.
Just a nationalist. He probably holds the majority view as well. Calling it "ultra" makes him stand out, when he doesn't.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't call him an ultranationalist.
Just a nationalist. He probably holds the majority view as well. Calling it "ultra" makes him stand out, when he doesn't.
I think "ultra" works for someone who's started a war against his empress because she was insufficiently martial and conquest-happy.
I didn't expect him to be. The problem is that he's an Orlesian ultranationalist who hates anything that might make his nation look weak. I don't expect that he'd hate compromising with the elves more than he'd hate compromising with some human minority that was somehow un-Orlesian in its outlook or image, but I don't think he'd compromise with either.
If you read the book you would realize that description is not accurate. It actually applies more to Celene. Gaspard uses the threat of images and reputation as an attack against others who are vulnerable to it, but does not direct himself according to it.
Certainly. Most civil wars occur precisely because someone wants to change some fundamental facet of the nation.
But it's likely a facet of the nation he doesn't want change, an alteration he doesn't want to see made. From what I know of his character, he doesn't particularly strike me as sympathetic to elves.
I think "ultra" works for someone who's started a war against his empress because she was insufficiently martial and conquest-happy.
That's an ultra-silly reasoning considering it doesn't even reflect his reasoning, and yet no one would suggest you've started a war for that modifier.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I think "ultra" works for someone who's started a war against his empress because she wasn't manly and martial enough.
It isn't the main reason why. He's a man of borders. Much like Loghain. He values security. Thinks of threats everywhere, and wants to be prepared. Celene doesn't devalue those things. It's more like she'd rather not think about them, she'd rather focus on another vision of cultural progression. But she doesn't have the luxury for that. This is where Gaspard is at least right. The sh*tstorm is coming.
It isn't the main reason why. He's a man of borders. Much like Loghain. He values security. Thinks of threats everywhere, and wants to be prepared. Celene doesn't devalue those things. It's more like she'd rather not think about them, she'd rather focus on another vision of cultural progression. But she doesn't have the luxury for that. This is where Gaspard is at least right. The sh*tstorm is coming.
And much like Loghain, he may very well have boned his nation trying to save it.
Maybe we can get all three of them to reconcile. It isn't as though nothing like that has ever happened in Bioware's canon.
And much like Loghain, he may very well have boned his nation trying to save it.
Maybe we can get all three of them to reconcile. It isn't as though nothing like that has ever happened in Bioware's canon.
I think reconciliation is going to be likely and I admit, causing a civil war to erupt when you know the 'sh*tstorm* is coming seems like a very bad idea. The best choice for Orlais is a unified Orlais.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
And much like Loghain, he may very well have boned his nation trying to save it.
Maybe we can get all three of them to reconcile. It isn't as though nothing like that has ever happened in Bioware's canon.
True. I think it's mostly his fault too. Celene never asked for any of this. But it probably will make her stronger, if she survives it. There'd be no need for Gaspard in that case.
But it's likely a facet of the nation he doesn't want change, an alteration he doesn't want to see made.
According to who?
From what I know of his character, he doesn't particularly strike me as sympathetic to elves.
He's not sympathetic to elves. He's also not racist towards them.
I'll invite someone to refresh my memory from the actual book if I'm wrong, but the only time in The Masked Empire that I can recall Gaspard making any negative political move in regards to race was the play against Celene, which had as many religious insinuations as the racial one and was an attack on Celene.
To which Celene's response was to sack a restive elven city.
Past that... I can think of nothing Gaspard does in advocating for or against the treatment of elves in general. I can't even think of him advocating on rolling back Celene's reforms.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I don't think Gaspard is any more racist to elves than he is Fereldens.
edit: Which isn't saying much.
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