954 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucijenifer]

I don't think there's any source on the number of Templar and Mage fans, it's just personal experience and perception.

 

We might be totally wrong though. I'm just happy I'm not the only one being shouted at!

[Xilizhra]

They're not.

Neutrals who'll prop up the templars when it suits them, like you and Ares and Dean, aren't so uncommon, but actual templar hardliners are rather moreso.

[AresKeith]

Neutrals who'll prop up the templars when it suits them, like you and Ares and Dean, aren't so uncommon, but actual templar hardliners are rather moreso.

 

We aren't talking about us, but Templar supports aren't in the few

[falconlord5]

I'm gonna try and get them into a union, 'cause man are they getting screwed.

 

Think about it. One faction is abducted at birth, bullied and abused, and then killed if they make the slightest mistake by the other faction, who are forcibly addicted to drugs, bullied and abused, and killed if they make the slightest mistake by the faction they're supposed to watch over.

 

Seriously. Talk about unsafe working conditions.

[The Elder King]

Neutrals who'll prop up the templars when it suits them, like you and Ares and Dean, aren't so uncommon, but actual templar hardliners are rather moreso.

I don't prop up templars when it suits me. I alway stated my honest opinion on templars, mages and the Chantry, regardless if I was supporting of criticizing them.
And i wasn't consider myself or Area or the others when I sais 'they're not'. Are there more mage supporters? Almost surely yes. Tha doesn't mean there are few pro-templars.

[LobselVith8]

I don't think there's any source on the number of Templar and Mage fans, it's just personal experience and perception.

 

We might be totally wrong though. I'm just happy I'm not the only one being shouted at!

 

Shouting is typical of the threads where mages and templars are discussed (or debated, depending on the flow of the conversation). There's never a consensus among the people who agree with the mages, and the people who align with the ideals of the templars. You've been baptized in fire.

[Grieving Natashina]

I don't think there's any source on the number of Templar and Mage fans, it's just personal experience and perception.

 

We might be totally wrong though. I'm just happy I'm not the only one being shouted at!

Welcome to the BSN.  

[Lucijenifer]

Shouting is typical of the threads where mages and templars are discussed (or debated, depending on the flow of the conversation). There's never a consensus among the people who agree with the mages, and the people who align with the ideals of the templars. You've been baptized in fire.

 

What about people who can understand the good sides to the Circle, while also understanding how dehumanising it must be for mages to be kept on such a short leash by Templars.

 

Welcome to the BSN.  

 

Thank you!

 

I think.

[Xilizhra]

What about people who can understand the good sides to the Circle, while also understanding how dehumanising it must be for mages to be kept on such a short leash by Templars.

There's no consensus with them either. But there's something of a divide between those who see the good side of the Circle as residing primarily within the current Circle, and those who could use some kind of system like it but see no need for the Chantry or the current templars to be involved. A category to which I belong.

[TK514]

Around and around we go...I'm looking forward to seeing what new information DA:I brings to this discussion.

[Lucijenifer]

There's no consensus with them either. But there's something of a divide between those who see the good side of the Circle as residing primarily within the current Circle, and those who could use some kind of system like it but see no need for the Chantry or the current templars to be involved. A category to which I belong.

 

Well, there isn't too much wrong with the current system. As grizzly as the Tranquil process is, I can understand that it's required to save lives. The Templars are required to ensure that the Mages stick to the system rather than do their own thing so they're necessary as well.

 

There's just a few things I'd change, like the whole lyrium addiction for Templars. That helps no one.

[LobselVith8]

What about people who can understand the good sides to the Circle, while also understanding how dehumanising it must be for mages to be kept on such a short leash by Templars.

 

 

Thank you!

 

I think.

 

I think most pro-mage players understand the need for mages to be properly trained on the use of their powers, but the dichotomy is whether the Chantry and the templars should have authority over the mages.

 

Having a religious organization that pretty much vilifies mages and magic, to the extent of Andrastians killing mages for things they didn't do (as Wynne discusses with the mage protagonist when she addresses how mages are killed outside the Circle), isn't something I condone. In fact, Lambert comments on this towards the conclusion of Asunder. "Without the templars, the Chantry was toothless - nothing more than a bunch of old women armed only with words. What would she do? Try to convince the people, after ages of teaching them mages were to be feared and contained, that now everything was different?"

 

Templars are told that they have "dominion over mages by divine right", which is logically going to lead to problems. While I believe that mages need proper training, I don't think the Chantry or the templars should have complete control over the mages.

[MisterJB]

You people call this a Mages vs Templars thread?

Where are the cries for genocide? The historical comparisons that don't fit?

Why, I haven't seen a single person claim that mages would be harmless if there were no Templars or propose methods of mass systematic slaugther of mages without breaching the Veil.

The BSN just isn't what it used to be.

[TheJediSaint]

You people call this a Mages vs Templars thread?

Where are the cries for genocide? The historical comparisons that don't fit?

Why, I haven't seen a single person claim that mages would be harmless if there were no Templars or propose methods of mass systematic slaugther of mages without breaching the Veil.

The BSN just isn't what it used to be.

 

Technically, this isn't BSN at all.  Welcome to the Bioware Forum

[Xilizhra]

You people call this a Mages vs Templars thread?

Where are the cries for genocide? The historical comparisons that don't fit?

Why, I haven't seen a single person claim that mages would be harmless if there were no Templars or propose methods of mass systematic slaugther of mages without breaching the Veil.

The BSN just isn't what it used to be.

There are too few of you for us to really care.

[Former_Fiend]

So we will probably be forced to choose between Mages and Templars again but in my opinion

there should be a third option because as Varric said at the end of DA:II I'm sick of mages and templars

and I agree with him completely

 

Do you think Bioware will give us that third option? What could it be ?

 

Beat them both into submission.

[Vegeta 77]

There are too few of you for us to really care.

Can´t be asked to argue with someone who smells of bs.  Keep on making your lies.

[Lucijenifer]

I think most pro-mage players understand the need for mages to be properly trained on the use of their powers, but the dichotomy is whether the Chantry and the templars should have authority over the mages.

 

Having a religious organization that pretty much vilifies mages and magic, to the extent of Andrastians killing mages for things they didn't do (as Wynne discusses with the mage protagonist when she addresses how mages are killed outside the Circle), isn't something I condone. In fact, Lambert comments on this towards the conclusion of Asunder. "Without the templars, the Chantry was toothless - nothing more than a bunch of old women armed only with words. What would she do? Try to convince the people, after ages of teaching them mages were to be feared and contained, that now everything was different?"

 

Templars are told that they have "dominion over mages by divine right", which is logically going to lead to problems. While I believe that mages need proper training, I don't think the Chantry or the templars should have complete control over the mages.

 

Perhaps this is a touch too sentimental and romantic but I can't help but see it as the only valid solution.

 

For each Mage, a Templar. The Circle should exist for the purpose of education, yes. Without the Circle, Mages would be completely wild, unpredictable and uncontrollable. At the same time, you're completely right about Mages being vilified and hated, and being reduced to animals by the more cruel Templars out there. They need to be able to leave thier cage, to wander the world and learn so that they can gather more knowledge for the benefit of the Circle and society as a whole. Of course it isn't wise for them to do this alone so... why not have a Templar bound to them, in a way? Someone to accompany them and aid them in everything that they do and to chastise and restrain them if they ever threaten to endanger society with their maigc. Equal yet not; with the Templar subservient to the Mage until the Mage is a threat to those around them, and that is when their Templar is in a position of authority and the Mage is the one that has to obey.

 

Of course there are obvious issues with this. A Templar could become emotionally attached to a Mage so perhaps they'd need to be rotated? A new pairing with every year or something along those lines. I know that there's literally no chance of this compromise being seen in DA:I but I can't think of any better solution, while keeping the Circles as they are. The Templars would have their place as guardians and enforcers while the Mages would have unprecedented liberty in Andrastian Thedas.

[The Elder King]

Beat them both into submission.

I prefer to say 'force them into armistice and help me stop the Fade Breach'. Which i think it might be your goal as well.

[Xilizhra]

Can´t be asked to argue with someone who smells of bs.  Keep on making your lies.

Sir, I want you to know that I do understand how desperately you're in need of new lies to support your position, but quite frankly, my Lie Workshop is already backed up trying to justify the Chantry's attempt to wipe out elven culture. You'll have to wait another 3-5 weeks.

[MisterJB]

I think most pro-mage players understand the need for mages to be properly trained on the use of their powers, but the dichotomy is whether the Chantry and the templars should have authority over the mages.

 

Having a religious organization that pretty much vilifies mages and magic, to the extent of Andrastians killing mages for things they didn't do (as Wynne discusses with the mage protagonist when she addresses how mages are killed outside the Circle), isn't something I condone. In fact, Lambert comments on this towards the conclusion of Asunder. "Without the templars, the Chantry was toothless - nothing more than a bunch of old women armed only with words. What would she do? Try to convince the people, after ages of teaching them mages were to be feared and contained, that now everything was different?"

By your own admission, what the Chantry teaches is that mages are "to be feared and contained" rather than killed

Now, this need not be a vilification. If all that the Chantry teaches is "magic is dangerous, mages can kill you with their mind, mages can be possessed by demons, mages once enslaved the whole continent", then all that they are doing is telling the truth.

Naturally, some people will react drastically to violently to this and kill an innocent mages but the responsability for that rests solely upon their shoulders, not the Chantry's.

What would you have them do? Keep the truth from the peope?

 

While I believe that mages need proper training, I don't think the Chantry or the templars should have complete control over the mages.

They don't. Mages have many rights and freedoms the Templars are obligated to respect.

 

 

[Former_Fiend]

I prefer to say 'force them into armistice and help me stop the Fade Breach'. Which i think it might be your goal as well.

 

Indeed. 

 

They can go back to killing each other after I'm done with 'em, though.

[The Elder King]

Sir, I want you to know that I do understand how desperately you're in need of new lies to support your position, but quite frankly, my Lie Workshop is already backed up trying to justify the Chantry's attempt to wipe out elven culture. You'll have to wait another 3-5 weeks.

Why would you try to justify it?

[Xilizhra]

By your own admission, what the Chantry teaches is that mages are "to be feared and contained" rather than killed

Now, this need not be a vilification. If all that the Chantry teaches is "magic is dangerous, mages can kill you with their mind, mages can be possessed by demons, mages once enslaved the whole continent", then all that they are doing is telling the truth.

Naturally, some people will react drastically to violently to this and kill an innocent mages but the responsability for that rests solely upon their shoulders, not the Chantry's.

What would you have them do? Keep the truth from the peope?

I would prefer them to tell the whole truth. Speak of the dangers and the benefits alike.

 

Also, given that the Chantry only directly governs mages, the mages should have fair representation within the Chantry itself.

 

Why would you try to justify it?

"That is a joke."