954 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucijenifer]

By your own admission, what the Chantry teaches is that mages are "to be feared and contained" rather than killed

Now, this need not be a vilification. If all that the Chantry teaches is "magic is dangerous, mages can kill you with their mind, mages can be possessed by demons, mages once enslaved the whole continent", then all that they are doing is telling the truth.

 

And what of all of the beautiful and wonderful things that mages can create? We've seen quite a few artifacts created by the Tevinter Imperium and Arlathan before it that show just what mages can do with the awesome power at their disposal. Yes, they're dangerous and yes they needed to be controlled, but why not share that beauty with the rest of the world and show the good that mages can do?

[Vegeta 77]

Sir, I want you to know that I do understand how desperately you're in need of new lies to support your position, but quite frankly, my Lie Workshop is already backed up trying to justify the Chantry's attempt to wipe out elven culture. You'll have to wait another 3-5 weeks.

Sorry [...] if you think there are only a few templars fans. But i guess your just saying that to feel like a special little mage fan. And a lot of mages lie not just the chantry.

Modifié par BioWareMod01, 05 juillet 2014 - 02:50 .
Edited to remove abusive term

[Grieving Natashina]

You people call this a Mages vs Templars thread?

Where are the cries for genocide? The historical comparisons that don't fit?

Why, I haven't seen a single person claim that mages would be harmless if there were no Templars or propose methods of mass systematic slaugther of mages without breaching the Veil.

The BSN just isn't what it used to be.

TKS isn't around.  Give it a couple of hours.  He'll show up eventually.  

 

 

Sorry your a idiot in denial if you think there are only a few templars fans. But i guess your just saying that to feel like a special little mage fan. And a lot of mages lie not just the chantry.

How about you stop with the name-calling, please.  There are plenty of pro-Templars that don't start name calling, and the person you addressed didn't either, so please show some maturity.

[Xilizhra]

Sorry your a idiot in denial if you think there are only a few templars fans. But i guess your just saying that to feel like a special little mage fan. And a lot of mages lie not just the chantry.

I accept your apology for my being "a idiot," but I never claimed that all mages were paragons of honesty. Flemeth, for instance, is a slippery one.

[MisterJB]

Perhaps this is a touch too sentimental and romantic but I can't help but see it as the only valid solution.

 

For each Mage, a Templar. The Circle should exist for the purpose of education, yes. Without the Circle, Mages would be completely wild, unpredictable and uncontrollable. At the same time, you're completely right about Mages being vilified and hated, and being reduced to animals by the more cruel Templars out there. They need to be able to leave thier cage, to wander the world and learn so that they can gather more knowledge for the benefit of the Circle and society as a whole. Of course it isn't wise for them to do this alone so... why not have a Templar bound to them, in a way? Someone to accompany them and aid them in everything that they do and to chastise and restrain them if they ever threaten to endanger society with their maigc. Equal yet not; with the Templar subservient to the Mage until the Mage is a threat to those around them, and that is when their Templar is in a position of authority and the Mage is the one that has to obey.

 

Of course there are obvious issues with this. A Templar could become emotionally attached to a Mage so perhaps they'd need to be rotated? A new pairing with every year or something along those lines. I know that there's literally no chance of this compromise being seen in DA:I but I can't think of any better solution, while keeping the Circles as they are. The Templars would have their place as guardians and enforcers while the Mages would have unprecedented liberty in Andrastian Thedas.

Mage poisons the Templar's beer while he is in the bathroom. Problem solved.

 

Mages have the freedom to "wander" Thedas once they have proven they are trustworthy. Think Wynne, Irving, Ines, Finn, Rhys, Adrian, Bethany, Mharen, Orsino, etc.

Finn is the best example, I believe. He just walked up to the Templar in charge, asked for permission to acompany the Warden and it was granted to him? Why? Because the Templars know he not dangerous, he is not entertaining thoughts of escaping or controlling people's mind and he is very young so it's not like it took him his whole life to earn that trust.

People like Anders, on the other hand, are placed in solitary for a year because they don't even try to earn the Templar's trust. They just assume that because normal people are free to come and go from their homes when they please, that mages should too despite the fact mages are dangerous.

 

In resume, mages have a very good home that they can only leave if they can prove there is little chance of them harming someone. Given they are extremely dangerous, this doesn't seem like such an unresonable system, at least as far as freedom of movement is concerned.
 

[Lucijenifer]

Mage poisons the Templar's beer while he is in the bathroom. Problem solved.

 

Mage is seen without a Templar and I assure you, the Andrastians are likely to rally with their torches and pitchforks. And I'd assume that if the Templars are wise enough to see that mages like Finn are worth trusting, then they're wise enough to ensure that the Mages they allow to leave with a Templar aren't going to poison their companion at the first opportunity they get.

[Vegeta 77]

 

 

 

 

How about you stop with the name-calling, please.  There are plenty of pro-Templars that don't start name calling, and the person you addressed didn't either, so please show some maturity.

 

I dont have respect for people like him who start lies about templars. Stop the lies i stop with the name calling.

[Vegeta 77]

I accept your apology for my being "a idiot," but I never claimed that all mages were paragons of honesty. Flemeth, for instance, is a slippery one.

I guess your proud of making lies good for you.

[AresKeith]

Atleast the arrogance is still there

[MisterJB]

And what of all of the beautiful and wonderful things that mages can create? We've seen quite a few artifacts created by the Tevinter Imperium and Arlathan before it that show just what mages can do with the awesome power at their disposal. Yes, they're dangerous and yes they needed to be controlled, but why not share that beauty with the rest of the world and show the good that mages can do?

Personally, I'd rather normal people develop technology to make them independent from mages which would also place them on a closer level but that is an entirely different argument altogether.

 

You talk of the good uses of magic and of sharing it with the world. However, this and the Circle system are not mutually exclusive.

The streets of Val-Royeaux are illuminated with glowlamps made in the Circle. The bars of Nevarra have cups inscribed with runes on them to keep the beverages cold. And yet, the Circle system exists (or did until recently).

Why can't mages produce these "beautiful and wonderful things" in the Circle and then sell them to the outside world?
 

[Xilizhra]

Mage poisons the Templar's beer while he is in the bathroom. Problem solved.

 

Mages have the freedom to "wander" Thedas once they have proven they are trustworthy. Think Wynne, Irving, Ines, Finn, Rhys, Adrian, Bethany, Mharen, Orsino, etc.

Finn is the best example, I believe. He just walked up to the Templar in charge, asked for permission to acompany the Warden and it was granted to him? Why? Because the Templars know he not dangerous, he is not entertaining thoughts of escaping or controlling people's mind and he is very young so it's not like it took him his whole life to earn that trust.

People like Anders, on the other hand, are placed in solitary for a year because they don't even try to earn the Templar's trust. They just assume that because normal people are free to come and go from their homes when they please, that mages should too despite the fact mages are dangerous.

 

In resume, mages have a very good home that they can only leave if they can prove there is little chance of them harming someone. Given they are extremely dangerous, this doesn't seem like such an unresonable system, at least as far as freedom of movement is concerned.
 

Yes, 'tis all good, provided you're not mindraped, ordinarily raped, summarily executed, or eaten by a demon the templars feed you to, or try to protect anyone else from similar fates, or just commit suicide. The vastly different situations we've seen Fereldan mages in (your examples, the psychologically broken Keili, Aneirin who risked his life to flee from abuse, that one blood mage who was apparently being stalked by multiple templars) lead me to believe that your welfare in an okayish Circle is based largely on luck (if the Circle is more like Kirkwall, on the other hand, you're just boned).

[The Elder King]

I dont have respect for people like him who start lies about templars. Stop the lies i stop with the name calling.

1) It's 'her'.
2) the fact that she might be lying (she might believe they're few) about how many templar supporters are there, doesn't justify at all insulting her. Drop the insults.

[Grieving Natashina]

I dont have respect for people like him who start lies about templars. Stop the lies i stop with the name calling.

Please don't call anyone any names, no matter if you disagree with their viewpoint or not.  They haven't called you any names, so please show some maturity.

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I'd rather normal people develop technology to make them independent from mages which would also place them on a closer level but that is an entirely different argument altogether.

 

You talk of the good uses of magic and of sharing it with the world. However, this and the Circle system are not mutually exclusive.

The streets of Val-Royeaux are illuminated with glowlamps made in the Circle. The bars of Nevarra have cups inscribed with runes on them to keep the beverages cold. And yet, the Circle system exists (or did until recently).

Why can't mages produce these "beautiful and wonderful things" in the Circle and then sell them to the outside world?
 

It's possible, but that eliminates things like magical healing that would be even more useful and which require personal contact with the mage in question. Mages would either need to be fairly distributed amongst the populace, or Circles would all need to double as clinics.

[MisterJB]

Mage is seen without a Templar and I assure you, the Andrastians are likely to rally with their torches and pitchforks.

 

Wear some pants and don't wave a staff and who but Templars can tell you're a mage?

 

 

And I'd assume that if the Templars are wise enough to see that mages like Finn are worth trusting, then they're wise enough to ensure that the Mages they allow to leave with a Templar aren't going to poison their companion at the first opportunity they get.

Well, then it wouldn't really be all that different from the current system, only there would be increased security when allowing more trustworthy mages outside of the Circle.

I got no enough issue with that but I don't believe it's what you originally meant considering you presented it as an alternative to the Circle.

 

[themikefest]

In all my mage playthroughs in DA2, I supported the Templars. And about half the time I played as a rogue and warrior, I supported the mages.

 

In DAI, my femquistor will be a mage who supports the Templars.

[Divine Justinia V]

I dont have respect for people like him who start lies about templars. Stop the lies i stop with the name calling.

 

You realize Templars are not real, right?

[Vegeta 77]

Please don't call anyone any names, no matter if you disagree with their viewpoint or not.  They haven't called you any names, so please show some maturity.

Im fine with people with a diffrent viewpoint. But when you make lies and take a dig at templar fans and say there are only a few i have a problem with that.

[Xilizhra]

Wear some pants and don't wave a staff and who but Templars can tell you're a mage?

Not even them, going by DA2.

[Lucijenifer]

Wear some pants and don't wave a staff and who but Templars can tell you're a mage?

 

Well, then it wouldn't really be all that different from the current system, only there would be increased security when allowing more trustworthy mages outside of the Circle.

I got no enough issue with that but I don't believe it's what you originally meant considering you presented it as an alternative to the Circle.

 

I suppose it wasn't, no. Perhaps you're right and more caution needs to be advocated around the mage but there has to be a balance between treating them like prisoners and letting them walk all over you. The current state of mages producing magical items within their Circles makes them little more than sweatshops.

 

And if technology independent of mages was developed, what value would there be in mages at all? Would you then be in favour of the systematic purging of mages, simply due to the fact that they might pose a danger? Who knows, perhaps the new technology might open up new applications of magic.

[The Elder King]

Im fine with people with a diffrent viewpoint. But when you make lies and take a dig at templar fans and say there are only a few i have a problem with that.

And this justify insults...how ?

[AresKeith]

Im fine with people with a diffrent viewpoint. But when you make lies and take a dig at templar fans and say there are only a few i have a problem with that.

 

That doesn't mean you can just insult them though

[MisterJB]

Yes, 'tis all good, provided you're not mindraped, ordinarily raped, summarily executed, or eaten by a demon the templars feed you to, or try to protect anyone else from similar fates, or just commit suicide. The vastly different situations we've seen Fereldan mages in (your examples, the psychologically broken Keili, Aneirin who risked his life to flee from abuse,that one blood mage who was apparently being stalked by multiple templars) lead me to believe that your welfare in an okayish Circle is based largely on luck (if the Circle is more like Kirkwall, on the other hand, you're just boned).

 

Because you can't be raped or executed in a city? And you can't find psychologically damaged people willing to commit suicide in a city? There can also be no poor rulers who make their subject's life a living hell? That ocurrs only in Circles?

There's no evidence Aneirin was being abused.

"that one blood mage who was apparently being stalked by multiple templars" That's a bad thing now?

[Grieving Natashina]

And this justify insults...how ?

Agreed.  Seems a bit personal for a video game forum.

[TheJediSaint]

You know?  There is an ignore function now, just saying.