954 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I'm not getting into this yet again Xil.  You've seen my posts on the subject before and I'm not going to be convinced that all templars are evil anymore than I will believe that all mages need to be killed.  

 

I'll state this simply, since you did ask: I think there needs to be a place that isn't either a mage or a templar stronghold where both sides are sitting down and having negotiations.  We have non-templar warriors and rogues standing by, and all weapons should be checked at the door.  The second someone sees a mage casting or a templar being aggressive, a guard for the meeting disables them.  

 

In short, I guess I would trust that, in the right circumstances, both mages and templars can be the adults I know they are and not the boogyman/evil children that some think about all mages or all templars.

 

Let's just agree to disagree, please.

 

@Elder: Thanks for noticing that.  

I... do not think that it's that simple. If it was, things like the Israel conflict would have been resolved a long time ago. I appreciate the effort, and I might even try it, but I wouldn't put that much faith in it working to permanently resolve things; their goals are just too diametrically opposed, and each has little to gain from the other.

[AresKeith]

As a point I think that the circle is the best option; it just needs tighter oversight on the templars to keep abuse down and more liberties given to mages who've proven themselves responsible with their powers.

 

But that ship sailed because some idiot in the wardens took away Anders' cat. 

 

I bet his cat killed and he chose to point fingers at the Wardens 

[LobselVith8]

Merril - decides she wants to rebuild a mirror, resorts to Blood Magic, gets her Keeper Killed, keeps on Blood Magicing it up. 

 

No. Keeper Marethari gets killed because she releases Audacity from it's prison, becomes an abomination, and tries to kill Merrill. Blood magic was learned to cleanse the shard of the taint due to the darkspawn corruption, and she never abused those abilities for several years. It's also not inherently evil, either, given how it's used by the Warden mages in defeating the darkspawn; technically speaking, the Joining and the phylacteries are also blood magic.

[Who Knows]

I'd like a sort of middle ground. Bring the mage circles back, but remove the chantry influence and try to prevent abuses. Allow mages to connect with family and friends while under the supervision of templars.

 

But I get the impression based on developer comments that you have to choose templars or mages without just a convenient best of both worlds, so I would guess I would choose the templars unless they're advocating something ridiculous like killing all mages.

[displayname]

As I mentioned once before, Asunder is fun-der.

 

In any case, Uldred was rejected by the Circle, Anders and Merrill were never part of the Circle, and Orsino just botched an attempt to drive the templars back without the intent to hurt anyone else.

 

 

All right, so you think the mages should try to approach the templars diplomatically? I think that was tried in Asunder already, but if they try it and only get killed or imprisoned for their trouble? Also, why should the mages make the first move when the templars are the aggressors?

Still doesn't change the fact that Mages started the Templar-Mage War. All Asunder does is compound Anders actions in the game and the "we are magi, we are freedums!" diatribe that every mage eventually spouts, right before they commit some act that is the whole reason for why the Circles exist in the first place. 

 

Every Mage, Not Even Once

The Order Dictates

[Grieving Natashina]

I bet his cat killed and he chose to point fingers at the Wardens 

Yeah, I never bought that "bastards took away my cat" excuse either.

[LobselVith8]

Still doesn't change the fact that Mages started the Templar-Mage War. All Asunder does is compound Anders actions in the game and the "we are magi, we are freedums!" diatribe that every mage eventually spouts, right before they commit some act that is the whole reason for why the Circles exist in the first place. 

 

I don't see how the mages started a war by taking a democratic vote to be free of an institution that some of them found morally repugnant.

[MisterJB]

On the topic of negotiations, Templars should participate in gatherings by the College of Enchanters where decisions that affect the daily life of the Circle are decided with a right to be heard and vote.

[Grieving Natashina]

On the topic of negotiations, Templars should participate in gatherings by the College of Enchanters where decisions that affect the daily life of the Circle are decided with a right to be heard and vote.

This is why you're one of the better pro-Templar posters on the forums.  

 

Hey displayname?  Take notes from MisterJB if you're pro-Templar.  Despite our differences in views, JB's got a decent head on his shoulders.

[AresKeith]

Yeah, I never bought that "bastards took away my cat" excuse either.

 

Especially when nobody mentioned taking it away in Awakening 

[TK514]

In any case, Uldred was rejected by the Circle, Anders and Merrill were never part of the Circle, and Orsino just botched an attempt to drive the templars back without the intent to hurt anyone else.

 

What?  When was Uldred rejected by the Circle?  He was a highly ranked and highly respected member of the Circle until he decided he could come out on top in a deal with a Pride Demon.

 

And since when was Anders never part of the Circle?  He lived there his entire life prior to becoming a Warden.  He was such a pain in the posterior he actually caused the rest of the Ferelden Circle to have less freedom.  He escaped eight times.  If that's not proof that the Templars in Ferelden were lenient I don't know what is.

 

Both sides seems to be harming civilians also

 

that seems idiotic

 

And ultimately pointless.

[Grieving Natashina]

Especially when nobody mentioned taking it away in Awakening 

If the short story is to be believed at all, then I guess "they took away my cat" sounds better than "I blacked out and killed a bunch of Wardens, so I'm avoiding them."

[AresKeith]

Tywin Lannister would have this whole situation fixed 

[LobselVith8]

Especially when nobody mentioned taking it away in Awakening 

 

Do we really need to kill Ser Pounce-A-Lot?

[displayname]

No. Keeper Marethari gets killed because she releases Audacity from it's prison, becomes an abomination, and tries to kill Merrill. Blood magic was learned to cleanse the shard of the taint due to the darkspawn corruption, and she never abused those abilities for several years. It's also not inherently evil, either, given how it's used by the Warden mages in defeating the darkspawn; technically speaking, the Joining and the phylacteries are also blood magic.

And why did Keeper Marethari release Audacity from its prison? Cause little Mage Merrill decided blood magic was better then listening to her Keeper, which lead to her Keepers death, all so little Mage Merrill could do what she wanted.

 

Every Mage, Not Even Once

The Order Dictates

 

 

I don't see how the mages started a war by taking a democratic vote to be free of an institution that some of them found morally repugnant.

Only citation I need here:- Anders blowing up a Chantry. 

 

Because as a Mage he didn't get his way. 

 

Every Mage, Not Even Once

The Order Dictates

[displayname]

I don't see how the mages started a war by taking a democratic vote to be free of an institution that some of them found morally repugnant.

Only citation I need here:- Anders blowing up a Chantry. 

 

Because as a Mage he didn't get his way. 

 

Every Mage, Not Even Once

The Order Dictates

[AresKeith]

Do we really need to kill Ser Pounce-A-Lot?

 

Makes more sense than saying they took him away, especially when there was a dog in the Grey Wardens technically

[TK514]

No. Keeper Marethari gets killed because she releases Audacity from it's prison, becomes an abomination, and tries to kill Merrill. Blood magic was learned to cleanse the shard of the taint due to the darkspawn corruption, and she never abused those abilities for several years. It's also not inherently evil, either, given how it's used by the Warden mages in defeating the darkspawn; technically speaking, the Joining and the phylacteries are also blood magic.

 

New info trumps old.  The devs have explicitly stated it's evil.  It may be considered a necessary evil by the Wardens who live under an 'end justifies the means' doctrine, or the Circles who use it as the only way to track escaped mages, but neither of those make it not evil.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

Only citation I need here:- Anders blowing up a Chantry. 

 

Because as a Mage he didn't get his way. He was sick of having Meredith squeeze down on the mages.

 

Every Mage, Not Even Once

The Order Dictates

 

FTFY.  I don't agree with what he did, but it certainly wasn't because he "didn't get his way."  It was a lot more complicated than that.  

[displayname]

Reserved for Templar purity and perfection. 

[LobselVith8]

And why did Keeper Marethari release Audacity from its prison?

 

Because Marethari wanted to protect Merrill, followed by Marethari turning into an abomination and trying to kill her. I see a flaw in her logic.

 

Cause little Mage Merrill decided blood magic was better then listening to her Keeper, which lead to her Keepers death, all so little Mage Merrill could do what she wanted.

 

Actually, Marethari claims Audacity would have escaped through the constructed Eluvian, despite the fact she opposed it for completely different reasons in Acts I and II, and she never explains how she came to this new conclusion in Act III.

[Grieving Natashina]

Reserved for Templar purity and perfection. 

Just like My Little Ponies!

 

 

 

_{Alright, I'll stop teasing the skirts.}

[AresKeith]

Because Marethari wanted to protect Merrill, followed by Marethari turning into an abomination and trying to kill her. I see a flaw in her logic.

 

She also wanted Merrill to kill her before the fight started

[General TSAR]

He escaped eight times.  If that's not proof that the Templars in Ferelden were lenient I don't know what is.

 

Eight times?! And not executed or made tranquil? What a bunch of limp wrist pansies.

[LobselVith8]

Only citation I need here:- Anders blowing up a Chantry. 

 

Because as a Mage he didn't get his way. 

 

Followed by Meredith ordering an entire population of men, women, and children killed, for the actions of one man who wasn't even a member of their Circle. If the point was that mages and templars are capable of doing reprehensible things, I don't disagree.