Guest_StreetMagic_*
I would easily blame Duncan for Merathari's thoughts as well. It's a string of events that gets her and Merrill where they ended up. If it wasn't for Duncan spouting b.s. about the Eluvian's origins, the Keeper might've never doubted her job, and not discouraged Merrill so much.
Of course, if it wasn't for Tamlen's curiosity we'd all be better off.
Or those damn humans who stole that elven artifact to begin with. 
According to their own laws an Harrowed mage, if not a blood mage, can't be tranquilized.Eight times?! And not executed or made tranquil? What a bunch of limp wrist pansies.
New info trumps old. The devs have explicitly stated it's evil. It may be considered a necessary evil by the Wardens who live under an 'end justifies the means' doctrine, or the Circles who use it as the only way to track escaped mages, but neither of those make it not evil.
One interview by one developer triumphs the narrative in two games? Considering that the information about the Inquisitor creating the Inquisition was wrong, I'm not seeing the interview as a source of infallible information.
FTFY. I don't agree with what he did, but it certainly wasn't because he "didn't get his way." It was a lot more complicated than that.
Anders motives are pretty clear by the time he asks for Hawkes help to distract the Grand Cleric. It was very simplistic in Anders motivations for what he did, and why he did it. Anders may want more rights, and may see Merediths treatment of the Kirkwall mages as a catalyst for why he reaches his decision, but that doesn't alleviate the entire dialogue about how Justice became Vengence, or all the complaining he does in DA:A.
Anders blew up a Chantry because the Grand Cleric wouldn't give him what he wanted, what Orsino wanted, what Uldred wanted, and why the Tevinter Imperium is what it is. The Grand Cleric would not be involved, and because of that a Mage blew up a Chantry and started a War.
She also wanted Merrill to kill her before the fight started
No, Marethari told Merrill this needed to end in her death, and then she became an abomination and attacked Merrill.
One interview by one developer triumphs the narrative in two games? Considering that the information about the Inquisitor creating the Inquisition was wrong, I'm not seeing the interview as a source of infallible information.
This is why you're one of the better pro-Templar posters on the forums.
Hey displayname? Take notes from MisterJB if you're pro-Templar. Despite our differences in views, JB's got a decent head on his shoulders.
Thank you. That's really flattering.
To elaborate on the idea, imagine if; rather than standing outside with an army of Templars, imagining how the mages were agreeing to commit unspeakable horrors; Lambert had been in the conclave, along with other Knight Commanders like Gregoir.
The obvious benefit is that he would be separated from his troops and the voice of moderate Templars would ensure the needs of non-mages are not forgotten amidst Adrian's hysteric shrieks about injustices and it would remind the mages that secession does mean war and that it might be better to reconsider it.
Granting them the right to vote would have avoided the war outright since the mages were never of a mind on it and, afterwards, Templars like Gregoir could vote against others like Lambert when the subject was the level of freedoms to be granted to mages.
Tywin Lannister would have this whole situation fixed
Damn right.
Head. Stakes. Wall.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I actually think Lambert isn't much of an extremist himself. Everything he does is standard Chantry behavior. He's no Meredith or Alrik. And his fears are legitimate. He's from Tevinter. He knows better than anyone to be cautious.
I think he's referring to WoT.
The opinion from the Tevinter letter doesn't mean blood magic magic is inherently evil, and we have examples of good people who use it without becoming villainous or misusing it.
Followed by Meredith ordering an entire population of men, women, and children killed, for the actions of one man who wasn't even a member of their Circle. If the point was that mages and templars are capable of doing reprehensible things, I don't disagree.
Her mind was warped by Red Lyrium. What is Anders' excuse...oh, spirit, right.
The opinion from the Tevinter letter doesn't mean blood magic magic is inherently evil, and we have examples of good people who use it without becoming villainous or misusing it.
Her mind was warped by Red Lyrium. What is Anders' excuse...oh, spirit, right.
Did Karras have an excuse for raping Alain? Did Alrik have an excuse for using tranquility to satiate his sexual desires? Did the templars have an excuse for torturing a da'len hunter in their attempts to capture Feynriel? Did Meredith's death squad have an excuse? Templars and mages are both capable of doing bad things. It doesn't take red lyrium for templars to cross the line.
Did Karras have an excuse for raping Alain? Did Alrik have an excuse for using tranquility to satiate his sexual desires? Did the templars have an excuse for torturing a da'len hunter in their attempts to capture Feynriel? Did Meredith's death squad have an excuse? Templars and mages are both capable of doing bad things. It doesn't take red lyrium for templars to cross the line.
Missed my point. I was acknowledging neither Anders nor Meredith were of a sane mind at the moment for reasons outside of their control.
But yes, Templars can cross the line without the need of supernatural corrupting forces.
"Did the templars have an excuse for torturing a da'len hunter in their attempts to capture Feynriel?"
Well, technically yes. They wanted to capture Feynriel
This is why you're one of the better pro-Templar posters on the forums.
Hey displayname? Take notes from MisterJB if you're pro-Templar. Despite our differences in views, JB's got a decent head on his shoulders.
Actually, to be honest I'm not taking this conversation serious at all. But I do appreciate the re-verification that the BSN, is still the BSN. I shall remember to endeavor even further to ignore every reasonable form of discourse and continue to blatantly post how horrific all mages are.
But thanks for the personal attack.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Just about everyone sucks in Kirkwall.
I think the White Spire's downfall is more complicated. You can't blame insanity on anyone. Nor is anyone of the cackling evil bastard variety (like I said above, I don't even think Lambert is).
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Actually, to be honest I'm not taking this conversation serious at all. But I do appreciate the re-verification that the BSN, is still the BSN. I shall remember to endeavor even further to ignore every reasonable form of discourse and continue to blatantly post how horrific all mages are.
But thanks for the personal attack.
Every Mage, Not Even OnceThe Order Dictates
I would only suggest making your goals realistic.
You'll never destroy every mage. Or magic in general.
Missed my point. I was acknowledging neither Anders nor Meredith were of a sane mind at the moment for reasons outside of their control.
Which had what to do with my point about mages and templars both having the capability to cross the line?
"Did the templars have an excuse for torturing a da'len hunter in their attempts to capture Feynriel?"
Well, technically yes. They wanted to capture Feynriel
They were just following orders, then.
But thanks for the personal attack.
There was no personal attack. I told you to take notes from MisterJB, since he knows what he's talking about. I don't make personal attacks on this forum. Not my style. I do apologize if you felt that way.
On the topic of negotiations, Templars should participate in gatherings by the College of Enchanters where decisions that affect the daily life of the Circle are decided with a right to be heard and vote.
That would apply if templars had any role in governance of the Circle, as opposed to being its police. As they should not, they should not have one here.
What? When was Uldred rejected by the Circle? He was a highly ranked and highly respected member of the Circle until he decided he could come out on top in a deal with a Pride Demon.
He was rejected by the Circle after his attack; it certainly didn't endorse him.
And since when was Anders never part of the Circle? He lived there his entire life prior to becoming a Warden. He was such a pain in the posterior he actually caused the rest of the Ferelden Circle to have less freedom. He escaped eight times. If that's not proof that the Templars in Ferelden were lenient I don't know what is.
He wasn't part of it when he blew up the Chantry.
New info trumps old. The devs have explicitly stated it's evil. It may be considered a necessary evil by the Wardens who live under an 'end justifies the means' doctrine, or the Circles who use it as the only way to track escaped mages, but neither of those make it not evil.
Meaningless without clarification.
Thank you. That's really flattering.
To elaborate on the idea, imagine if; rather than standing outside with an army of Templars, imagining how the mages were agreeing to commit unspeakable horrors; Lambert had been in the conclave, along with other Knight Commanders like Gregoir.
The obvious benefit is that he would be separated from his troops and the voice of moderate Templars would ensure the needs of non-mages are not forgotten amidst Adrian's hysteric shrieks about injustices and it would remind the mages that secession does mean war and that it might be better to reconsider it.
Granting them the right to vote would have avoided the war outright since the mages were never of a mind on it and, afterwards, Templars like Gregoir could vote against others like Lambert when the subject was the level of freedoms to be granted to mages.
Secession never meant war. The Chantry allowed the mages to leave. The Templar Order unilaterally declared war and seceded from the Chantry itself, both without cause.
That would apply if templars had any role in governance of the Circle, as opposed to being its police. As they should not, they should not have one here.
I agree with Xil here. Templars have no place in running the Circle and any attempt to change that shouldn't be on the table if negotiations are initiated.
I agree with Xil here. Templars have no place in running the Circle and any attempt to change that shouldn't be on the table if negotiations are initiated.
Decisions on how the Circle runs inevitably affect how the Templars perform their duty.
If they aren't allowed a voice these procedures, then the College of Enchanters should be powerless to decide on anything that will affect the Templars' jurisdiction.
Which is, pretty much, everything they can decide on with the exception of whose Enchanter is granted what room in the tower.
Decisions on how the Circle runs inevitably affect how the Templars perform their duty.
If they aren't allowed a voice these procedures, then the College of Enchanters should be powerless to decide on anything that will affect the Templars' jurisdiction.Which is, pretty much, everything they can decide on with the exception of whose Enchanter is granted what room in the tower.
Law enforcement, fundamentally, should not be involved in the creation of laws; it's an outright attack on separation of powers.
I think there might need to be two tiers of templars: local ones who stay within the Circle who answer to the individual one, and a higher branch that reports directly to the Chantry or the inter-Circle governing board, and the two would likely have different jurisdictions depending on whether lawbreaking mages were harming the individual Circle or the Circle organization as a whole.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
If the Templars have no say in it, you might as well break away entirely. See where that takes you. For better or worse.
Trying to maintain a Circle system specifically though is acknowledging the Chantry. And acknowledging the Chantry means Templars or some policing measure as well.
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