. Absolutely not, what if they decide to vote on whether blood magic should be allowed, or something similar. Excluding templars from the day to day running of the Circle is a bad idea.It's unnecessary to include Chantry representatives in discussions on local matters. If it affects multiple Circles, bring in both mages and clerics; templars still have no place in governance.
You do, however, have implications of qunari blood mages, if the Talisman of Saarebas is any indication.
Thats why Qunari Mages get to be zipper lipped, shackled, and beaten down. Like all mages should.
Mages Under The Qun, Every Last One of Them
The Order Dictates, Sereebas
Also seriously, how do you ignore people on this forum?
You have to admit, you don't hear about Qunari mages becoming Abominations.
x2.
But you're also saying mages need not merely be contained, but lose their sense of self.
That's what I think is very Qunari about what you said. The idea that people have an essential nature to be called out (in your case, it' "WMDs"), and then denying them any other form of personhood beyond that nature.
I would say you're just as much a heathen in Chantry eyes for thinking of them that way.
Maybe in the eyes of the bleeding heart divine, but that problem will quickly fix itself after leadership change and new theological doctrine.
Thats why Qunari Mages get to be zipper lipped, shackled, and beaten down. Like all mages should.
Mages Under The Qun, Every Last One of Them
The Order Dictates, Sereebas
I like the way you think.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
You have to admit, you don't hear about Qunari mages becoming Abominations.
It's effective, sure.
I just think it's counter to what the Chantry is trying to accomplish. Which is just education. The Harrowing, if anything, is a test of how strong your individuality and willpower is. They don't want to destroy it.
So, basically, you propose an alternative that creates the same problems you dislike when they happen to another.
You cited an example that exemplifies the same problems with the Chantry controlled Circles, where one group has authority over another.
Just answer this: what guarantees do you have that mages would be interested in fairly policing and prosecuting their peers if these commits crimes against non-mages?
You seem to be conflating mages governing one another in an independent Circle of Magi with the duties of local law enforcement outside the Circle.
Just answer that. Do not talk about how you dislike "Chantry-controlled Circles" and how bad they are. Just answer the question.
You might want to try clarify the question so that it's clear whether you're addressing how mages will govern each other in an independent Circle, or how law enforcement might handle mage criminals who cross the line outside the Circle.
You have to admit, you don't hear about Qunari mages becoming Abominations.
According to the Arishok, he didn't lose anyone to the Tal Vashoth either.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
x2.
Maybe in the eyes of the bleeding heart divine, but that problem will quickly fix itself after leadership change and new theological doctrine.
I like the way you think.
That's all I wanted to know. So you admit to wanting a new religion, basically.
I think the Chantry should handle it's own affairs, with it's own gods and doctrine. Not be reformed by people who gave up on it.
I haven't. I just reserve the right to answer to ignore posts, even if they are directed at me.
Seems a bit odd to do that and demand that other people answer your questions at the same time, but whatever.
. Absolutely not, what if they decide to vote on whether blood magic should be allowed, or something similar. Excluding templars from the day to day running of the Circle is a bad idea.
The Templars need to be held accountable for abuses, but that's all that needs to change
That seems like a Circle-wide "national" issue, not a local one. So the Chantry would have a voice in it as well (however, there does need, I believe, to be a representative number of mages in the Chantry's government to decide this).
That's all I wanted to know. So you admit to wanting a new religion, basically.
Do you not understand how religions evolve with the times and circumstances?
It's effective, sure.
I just think it's counter to what the Chantry is trying to accomplish. Which is just education. The Harrowing, if anything, is a test of how strong your individuality and willpower is. They don't want to destroy it.
I almost got a little whiplash from nodding so hard. I disagree it's just education, but I can agree with the rest.
If the Chantry though the Qunari had a good idea, then they would have employed similar methods ages ago.
If the Chantry though the Qunari had a good idea, then they would have employed similar methods ages ago.
They probably don't know the full extent of Qunari mage control methods.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Do you not understand how religions evolve with the times and circumstances?
They evolve in many ways. Most of the big ones set out safeguards in the form of creeds and Council statements to safeguard from too much random influence though (this was more the case with Orthodox and Catholic churches). These credo statements rarely if ever change. But cultural expressions do (Irish or Spanish catholics might venerate different saints, have different stories and vestments, etc).
You don't just change the entire credo though and expect to be the same thing. This is more akin to Muhammad correcting what he saw as errors of the Jews and Christians and "re-introducing" his own brand of monotheism.
edit: Point is, the Chantry is kind of the same. They already have their main beliefs set in stone. Methods will change, but not major doctrine.
You have to admit, you don't hear about Qunari mages becoming Abominations.
Well one of them tried destroy entire world and almost he succeeded so when qunari control is better still proves that mages can't be rly controled.
Besides it would be hard to hear something about qunari as in fact we don't hear any news from them.
They evolve in many ways. Most of the big ones set out safeguards in the form of creeds and Council statements to safeguard from too much random influence though (this was more the case with Orthodox and Catholic churches though). These credo statements rarely if ever change. But cultural expressions do (Irish or Spanish catholics might venerate different saints, have different stories and vestments, etc).
You don't just change the entire credo though and expect to be the same thing. This is more akin Muhammad correcting what he saw as errors of the Jews and Christians and "re-introducing" his own brand of monotheism.
It's not changing the entire credo just the part about the Mages.
You cited an example that exemplifies the same problems with the Chantry controlled Circles, where one group has authority over another.
Perhaps (with emphasys) but the solution seems hardly to be removing all law enforcement over said group.
You cited an example that exemplifies the same problems with the Chantry controlled Circles, where one group has authority over another.
You seem to be conflating mages governing one another in an independent Circle of Magi with the duties of local law enforcement outside the Circle.
You might want to try clarify the question so that it's clear whether you're addressing how mages will govern each other in an independent Circle, or how law enforcement might handle mage criminals who cross the line outside the Circle.
The question is very simple, if the Templars do not police mages, who does?
They probably don't know the full extent of Qunari mage control methods.
I honestly think the Chantry knows the meaning of the word "compassion" when it suits them. While they see mages as dangerous, many still see them as people and are horrified when they learn of the Qunari treating their mages that badly. I also don't think they'll find it a good idea even now.
They probably don't know the full extent of Qunari mage control methods.
They probably do
Guest_StreetMagic_*
It's not changing the entire credo just the part about the Mages.
Not once you talk about wiping out the sense of self. It's not a Chantry belief in general.
Also, slippery slope. The "lawyer's mind" would eventually start applying that elsewhere. Before you know it, the Chantry resembles the Qun. 
edit: Actually I should say it's a last course, if anything. Tranquil can hardly be said to have much sense of self either. Although the Tranquil themselves seem to disagree. Oddly.
I have suggested the daily operations of the Circle to be discussed and voted upon by an equally numbered council of Templars and mages. This would, of course, include Templar behavior.
I think this system has too much potential turn into a huge mess in the end, so I agree with Xil still. The templars are guardians and nothing more. I don't know what will be accomplished by giving them more power over the circles in the end anyway. It seems it would only deprive circles of the autonomy agreed to in the Nevarran accord and deprive individual mages of their liberties.
I think this system has too much potential turn into a huge mess in the end, so I agree with Xil still. The templars are guardians and nothing more. I don't know what will be accomplished by giving them more power over the circles in the end anyway. It seems it would only deprive circles of the autonomy agreed to in the Nevarran accord and deprive individual mages of their liberties.
A huge mess? Like, you know, a war?
A huge mess? Like, you know, a war?
Yes, that's precisely what the previous, terrible system led to.
That seems like a Circle-wide "national" issue, not a local one. So the Chantry would have a voice in it as well (however, there does need, I believe, to be a representative number of mages in the Chantry's government to decide this).
With the impotence of the Chantry after the cataclysm, I suppose the Inquisition would fill in the power vacuum for a "national" issue about magic, if the Inquisitor brings the mages to be part of the organization. A mage commanding the organization that's gaining political and military power, and bringing mages as a militant arm of the group (in this hypothetical scenario), is certain to override some of the traditional laws about magic and mages.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Yes, that's precisely what the previous, terrible system led to.
Why did it take so long to crumble then? It can't be as simple as that.
Why did it take so long to crumble then? It can't be as simple as that.
It's possible that the recent upswing in mage births left the Circles more populous and powerful than in the past, enough to feel as though they could break the Circle's chains. It's also possible that the accumulation of abuse over the centuries simply became too great. This mess grew out of a botched Annulment to begin with; if it had happened with any of the previous ones, perhaps the rebellion would have begun then.
With the impotence of the Chantry after the cataclysm, I suppose the Inquisition would fill in the power vacuum for a "national" issue about magic, if the Inquisitor brings the mages to be part of the organization. A mage commanding the organization that's gaining political and military power, and bringing mages as a militant arm of the group (in this hypothetical scenario), is certain to override some of the traditional laws about magic and mages.
Impotency before as well. The Divine was concerned about Kirkwall before Anders went and detonated the Chantry, and the Grand Cleric not siding with the Mages or Templars. Even though Anders would have blown up the Chantry even if she did side with the Templars so its kinda a moot point. Side with me or else,
Mages Under The Qun, Every Last One of Them
The Order Dictates, Sereebas
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