954 réponses à ce sujet

[Ap0state]

False delimma as well. There are possible world war scenarios with free mages as well. In fact, the internationalization and de-factionalization of the mages is one of the big successes of the Circle system.

 

The costs to mundanes under the Circle system would be compared to the cost of mundanes when there is no Circle system at all. We have no statistical comparison, but we do know that the Thedasian experience of unrestrained mages allowed to integrate or rise above society has led to a majority of Thedas to prefer social exclusion of mages to social integration and potential ascent of a mageocracy.

 

 

You've also provided no support for this claim of comparative deaths, or how these costs would not also occur in equal or greater measure without the Circle system, or even acknowledging the other costs of free mages which are a real concern to non-mages.

There's no way for either side to quantify this meaningfully, (the same issue with your claim that mages can't win a battle, which is why I didn't respond to those claims), these are some things that can't be empirically debated due to a paucity of data.

[Xilizhra]

There is NOTHING that indicates the murder rate amongst mages is any bigger than anywhere else in Thedas, so that is a useless point to try and argue.

The summary execution rate seems rather too high, and then there's the chance that you'll be presumed guilty by association and whacked in an Annulment.

 

 

And if you are referring to the Rite of Tranquility, it is done for a reason, and is often offered as a CHOICE for the apprentice.

Yes, well, therein lies the difference between assisted suicide and gassing unwilling people to death.

 

 

Compared to the peasants of Thedas, who has to toil and labor the entire year for no gain of their own, the mages lead a life of absolute luxury only rivaled by the nobles.

First, have you a source on "no gain of their own" or on the notion that Thedas' peasantry is as badly off as some examples from Earth (and even if they are, we see plenty of townsfolk who are neither peasant nor noble)? Second, how is it at all relevant to a debate about mages anyway?

[DrBlingzle]

There is NOTHING that indicates the murder rate amongst mages is any bigger than anywhere else in Thedas, so that is a useless point to try and argue.

It would actually be really great if we got some statistics on this matter. What percentage of circle mages turn to blood magic? How many apostates turn into abominations? What percentage of mages pass their harrowing?

Without any solid facts and figures mage and templar supporters tend to make their perceptions without any facts to back them up. I know many mage supporters who claim that very few mages ever become abominations while I've heard many Templar supporters claim that it is much more common. If we're going to come up with a reasonable judgment we're going to need some hard, cold facts to back up our conclusions.

 

EDIT: Or maybe I'm just a cold bastard who needs to see statistics and numbers before anything else. Whatever it is I would really like some stats.

[Dean_the_Young]

Good morning guys.  It's the new mage/templar debate thread, so I'm back with the coffee.

 

 

Mmm. That's my fill for the day. Enjoy, bystanders.

[Grieving Natashina]

Mmm. That's my fill for the day. Enjoy, bystanders.

Always do Dean.  

[Steelcan]

I miss anything good.... Or should I just head back to Skyrim?

[Grieving Natashina]

I miss anything good.... Or should I just head back to Skyrim?

Don't ask me, I just woke up.

[Steelcan]

Don't ask me, I just woke up.

. Same here and I see some walls of text...


/ grabs coffee

[Lucijenifer]

Or maybe I'm just a cold bastard who needs to see statistics and numbers before anything else. Whatever it is I would really like some stats.

 

It's a fantasy setting based in a medieval-type world. I wouldn't expect there to be any solid census at all. Feudal Europe wasn't all that great at administration.

 

As such, I doubt they have enough accurate records in order to come up with such statistics. Not to mention I think the writer wants to focus on the characters and stories, rather than writing up statistics for a fictional setting.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It would actually be really great if we got some statistics on this matter. What percentage of circle mages turn to blood magic? How many apostates turn into abominations? What percentage of mages pass their harrowing?

Without any solid facts and figures mage and templar supporters tend to make their perceptions without any facts to back them up. I know many mage supporters who claim that very few mages ever become abominations while I've heard many Templar supporters claim that it is much more common. If we're going to come up with a reasonable judgment we're going to need some hard, cold facts to back up our conclusions.

 

EDIT: Or maybe I'm just a cold bastard who needs to see statistics and numbers before anything else. Whatever it is I would really like some stats.

Cold hard statistics would kind of ruin any and all attempts of discussion on the subject. I don't think you should hold your breath for BioWare to supply us with such statistics, since the absence of them adds to the ambiguity of the entire situation.

Right now the big question is cause and effect, and a variation of "chicken before egg or vice versa", which are entirely based on our own perception of the evidence presented to us.

[Steelcan]

It's a fantasy setting based in a medieval-type world. I wouldn't expect there to be any solid census at all. Feudal Europe wasn't all that great at administration.
 
As such, I doubt they have enough accurate records in order to come up with such statistics. Not to mention I think the writer wants to focus on the characters and stories, rather than writing up statistics for a fictional setting.

Common misconception, certain parts of Europe, especially England, Spain, Byzantium, the Italian city States, had superb administration capabilities, can't get taxes unless you have an efficient system, or raise an army, etc...

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well i know that mages cause enough trouble to do a lot damage for society all i need is count what they did past all games and say "damn world would be better without them"

[Grieving Natashina]

G'morning TKS.  Sleep well?

[EmperorSahlertz]

I just wish Bioware made the choice in this plotline for me.

 

Or.. If they're going to give us all this responsibility to make big choices in the world, then I hope to see some more info about their plans on that. Some pre-release interview about where they're taking Dragon Age. Because from where I'm standing and what I've seen from their past games, it can't be done justice.

 

And honestly, I'm getting sick of my fellow players. And all their grand ideas about how many changes they think they're going to make as the Inquisitor. Like suddenly this game entails we're all going to be able to bend everyone and everything on command. If this is the Inquisitor, then I long for Hawke and his relative ineffectiveness. Because this is too ****** absurd for me.

 

/rantoff

People always go on imaginary powertrips previous to a game launch. Just wait till a few weeks after release when they come back and whine about they couldn't live out their fantasies.

[Xilizhra]

I just wish Bioware made the choice in this plotline for me.

 

Or.. If they're going to give us all this responsibility to make big choices in the world, then I hope to see some more info about their plans on that. Some pre-release interview about where they're taking Dragon Age. Because from where I'm standing and what I've seen from their past games, it can't be done justice.

 

And honestly, I'm getting sick of my fellow players. And all their grand ideas about how many changes they think they're going to make as the Inquisitor. Like suddenly this game entails we're all going to be able to bend everyone and everything on command. If this is the Inquisitor, then I long for Hawke and his relative ineffectiveness. Because this is too ****** absurd for me. I dislike this level of power.

 

/rantoff

What makes it absurd enough for you that you hope none of it happens?

[TheKomandorShepard]

G'morning TKS.  Sleep well?

Not morning for me

[MCG]

I can imagine the 'Mage V Templar' plot being resolved in the end but not in 'Inquisition'. I think we'll see the beginning of the end of this particular topic but that's about it, maybe towards the end of this particular installment. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Not morning for me

Ah, okay.  Well, hopefully you have a good day.  I'll just be in the back, reading everyone's posts.  

[DrBlingzle]

It's a fantasy setting based in a medieval-type world. I wouldn't expect there to be any solid census at all. Feudal Europe wasn't all that great at administration.

 

As such, I doubt they have enough accurate records in order to come up with such statistics. Not to mention I think the writer wants to focus on the characters and stories, rather than writing up statistics for a fictional setting.

 

Well I'm just going to get my inquisition to make a thedas-doomsday book (congratulations to anyone who knows what that is). 

 

And honestly, I'm getting sick of my fellow players. And all their grand ideas about how many changes they think they're going to make as the Inquisitor. Like suddenly this game entails we're all going to be able to bend everyone and everything on command. If this is the Inquisitor, then I long for Hawke and his relative ineffectiveness. Because this is too ****** absurd for me. I dislike this level of power.

 

/rantoff

But in all seriousness I pretty much agree with you on this. I highly doubt we'll be able to do all the stuff some fans are expecting us to be able to do. Still if we don't have some level of influence on the mage/templar war I'll be disappointed.

[Ap0state]

I just added a line at the end of the post.. right before you replied.

 

Basically, all that power in one individual is absurd to me. At least in this setting. I didn't sign up to play a god. Or the equivalent of an Aztec ruler.

Pretty realistic though in a medieval setting, in a war-torn age. The most powerful people have enormous (but not-lasting) impact on the world around them. After they die, or disappear though, things change drastically again, which is fair enough. I don't think a pseudo-realism simulator where you are a commoner with no real power, is either appropriate to the setting or makes for a good game.

[DrBlingzle]

Well i know that mages cause enough trouble to do a lot damage for society all i need is count what they did past all games and say "damn world would be better without them"

Well what if we found out that the situations we saw in the games were really isolated cases? I mean if I found out that the risk of mages becoming abominations and the amount of apostates who became blood magic was a lot higher than I previously thought then I would probably rethink my position and probably be more pro-templar. We've got to take into account new information even if it contradicts our preconceptions.