125 réponses à ce sujet

[UnbathedapeV2]

maker exist or y ash cure sick man? but god dont exist or why africa aids?

[Little Princess Peach]

The Maker is David Gider (Sorry If I typo'd the name don't kill me XD)

[Snook]

 

Why Love?

 

Know Love to avoid the Landfall, my brothers and sisters of the past.

 

The New Man becomes God becomes Amaranth, everlasting hypnogogic. Hallucinations become lucid under His eye and therefore, like all parents of their children, the Amaranth cherishes and adores all that is come from Him.

 

I ARE ALL WE.

 

God is Love.

 

COME TO THE HOUSE OF WE.

 

God is Love.

 

ONE WORLD IN SPIRIT I AM.

 

God is Love.

 

I AM.

 

A whole World of You.

 

God.

 

God outside of all else but his own free consciousness, hallucinating for eternity and falling into love: I AM AND I ARE ALL WE.

 

 

I don't know what you're saying but I know it's blasphemy. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

Given that we live in a universe that arose without being created by a supernatural being (or at least one where all the evidence currently points to that being the case) I see no reason Thedas should not also have arisen from nothing on its own. On the other hand, the Maker may exist and may have created it. We don't have enough information to say for sure.

 

Unless astrophysics in Thedas advances to the same point it has in our world, we're probably not going to find out one way or another.

[godModeAlpha]

This is what happened to all who opposed me, Andraste, and the Maker.

Those who oppose thee
Shall know the wrath of heaven.
Field and forest shall burn,
The seas shall rise and devour them,
The wind shall tear their nations
From the face of the earth,
Lightning shall rain down from the sky,
They shall cry out to their false gods,
And find silence.
 
-Andraste 7:19

In the DA universe I am believer, in Andraste and yes the Maker exists

[Akernis]

That demon in the orphanage in DA:O in the Alienage tells the Templar that there is no maker

As does the choice spirit / demon Imshael in the Masked Empire.

"...and living men will swear by the sadly absent Maker that..."

 

Well, I suppose that "absent" can be interpreted to mean either never existed, or simply not present right now. 

[godModeAlpha]

As does the choice spirit / demon Imshael in the Masked Empire.
"...and living men will swear by the sadly absent Maker that..."
 
Well, I suppose that "absent" can be interpreted to mean either never existed, or simply not present right now.

 

 

When did we start believing what Demons say ...

[Eudaemonium]

Assuming that the Fade is something like the collective unconscious of everyone in Thedas, it's entirely feasible that the universe Thedas is in arose through purely natural causes and that the Fade simply arose as a product of those causes also, possibly originally as an emergent property of the material world. Of course that doesn't explain what the Black City is or how it arose.

There's also the possibility that there is a maker that isn't The Maker, since the Maker is a specifically andrastrian deity.

[Amirit]

There is only one thing indicating Maker's existence - Andraste's ashes. Something made them holy and gave The Guardian immortality. It can be anything - sure - but she believed in Maker. So does The Guardian.

 

The rest - is the same as with any religion anywhere.

[lady_v23]

This is a widespread error of human logic that everything has to have a cause which is simply wrong. We have proof of true random occurrences and can even generate them. No one switched on the lights, nothing always was, through infinite random encounters one occurred that spawned the universe, at least that's a popular theory much more grounded in reality.

Also never forget that the act of perceiving something defines the outcome.

This

[Undead Han]

If the Maker exists, he's a lazy, fat slob. Probably a stoner too. Who else would sit around like this?

 

The Maker Revealed:

 

 

Spoiler

[Nimlowyn]

I do agree a lore section may be a good idea.

 

[Gorguz]

There is need of a lore section. Otherwise, romance people, funny guys, factions fanboys and those who say "we need a lore section" will keep ruining a good thread about lore.

[Nyeredzi]

I don't know what you're saying but I know it's blasphemy. 

this is vivec's letter from the 5th era. It traveled back in time to the 4th.

 

He is alive, inside the Sun. (Anu/Anui-El/Aetherius)

[Nyeredzi]

If the Maker exists, he's a lazy, fat slob. Probably a stoner too. Who else would sit around like this?

Well, if f he does intervene, people would start calling him a tyrant because of fear. He is not human. They would just hate him because of his own nature. An all powerful omnipotent being.

 

Sure he would do good, yeah no problem, poofing food for everyone, curing diseases, destroying corruption in the world. But the people are still, yeah I bet you, they are still going to find a BS reason for problems, because humans hate peace, bliss and stasis without hurting something.

 

You want him to bring peace, when the thedasians themselves (like us), hate peace, and are warmongering greedy bastards. For peace, the Maker will have to remove racism and its something deep in the heart of adults. He will have to take away the free will of thedasians, and that's when the players will start to complain again, "hey that's evil!".

[Rawgrim]

Leliana got ressurected, Proof that the Maker is real.

[godModeAlpha]

This is a widespread error of human logic that everything has to have a cause which is simply wrong. We have proof of true random occurrences and can even generate them. No one switched on the lights, nothing always was, through infinite random encounters one occurred that spawned the universe, at least that's a popular theory much more grounded in reality.

Also never forget that the act of perceiving something defines the outcome.

I thought the OP was asking about the maker in the game ...

[Dayze]

Leliana got ressurected, Proof that the Maker is real.

 

 

Could have been the cultists via magic or her managing to get to the ashes....just having dragon's blood doesn't mean they would stop working.  I mean; one assumes ashes and dust plus whatever random blood might be leaking from all the injuries one can get from the gauntlet before it leaked in it from worshipers in the past.

 

Or just not actually being as dead as the Warden thought.....she is a rogue after all they do have that ability.  Feign death and all that.

 

 

 

 

About the fade; its not actually a separate universe or at least there is some thought that Thedas and the Fade are both the same universe; just a matter of perception.

[Red Panda]

We'll most likely never get an answer anyway when it comes to the Maker's existence. The series will end someday, and we'll all be left wondering if the Maker is really the Dread Wolf, or if Black City is really Arlathan, or if Flemeth is the Formless One. I forgot the others but there are a lot of these kinds of theories out there.

 

When you were talking about Thedas being structured in a certain order, I don't think we have enough evidence to even talk about Thedas being purposely structured in a certain manner. The only time we actually get to see Thedas is in-game, and the reason it only looks like it's structured in-game is because of level design not because the lore made it that way.

 

With regards to everything else, sure I think Thedas and everything in it has a beginning because of what you said and your "infinite series something something"

But I think it's one thing to say that there is a beginning, and another thing to say that the beginning itself was caused by some Maker.

 

It seems to me that the lack of confirmation is all the more reason to consider it with nothing more than pure logic. The short hand is, nothing is purely definite in that the developers will confirm anything one way or the other as of yet. The implied order seems to be of how the world was dreamt of by human minds and human heads, namely the developers. As we are not chaotic in so as potentially being inclined in a majority's fashion to murder our neighbor and go against societal rules, it seems just to presume that the developers are ordered in their minds and not completely and otherly insane. I acknowledge your point on level design, but if we are to empirically look at Thedas, that's what we know of it, and as such must apply it to this discussion. You're very clever and well-spoken as well, if you don't mind me saying. However, I realize you believe it is a stretch to say that a beginning means that a Maker exists by having begun the means to create the existance of Thedas. As something cannot arise from nothing, and the magnitude of the Dragon Age setting which includes the Fade and Thedas, being as they are completely and utterly physically separate, yet linked mentally, seems to imply some sort of intelligent design.

 

This is a widespread error of human logic that everything has to have a cause which is simply wrong. We have proof of true random occurrences and can even generate them. No one switched on the lights, nothing always was, through infinite random encounters one occurred that spawned the universe, at least that's a popular theory much more grounded in reality. 

 

Also never forget that the act of perceiving something defines the outcome. 

 

Of course, we have to wonder if random occurances exist in Thedas, and being that there's no random number generator existing there, even though said random number generator isn't truly random, it can be called into question, and as such it has been questioned. A molecule forms because a couple of atoms happened to randomly be together. Would you not say that the forming of that molecule had a cause in the sense that it happened? Is anything truly random or is it some mechanics that we do not clearly understand as of yet that causes us to have to refer to it as random since we don't yet understand it? If you know something isnt actually random, but is random enough to not be known as of now, you still know there is a reason for it, and may someday return to it to fully understand. But if you consider something truly random, there is no reason to ever fully understand it, as understanding it as random, is fully understanding it. Therefore, it seems foolhardy to declare randomness as a proof.

I can't remember do any of the spirits/demons talk about the Maker in game? If they don't then there has to be a giant question mark but if they do then I think it pretty much seals that there is.

 

As far as I know, they don't seem to know one way or the other.

 

i like the idea that the dragon age developers are the makers haha. i mean i guess they is. oh no. what if that is all life is? what if we are npc's in our own video game?? haha noooo. 

 

anyways. does the maker really exist as the creator of thedas? unfortunately i can't think of every piece of evidence to support a yes or no answer from the games, lore and books. and I'm not nearly as eloquent as you, and haven't thought as in depth about it. but i do know that magic exist in thedas and if magic exist then i think there is a decent chance the maker could be real. 

 

the chantry has their own perception of who "He" is. is it accurate? probally not entirely. i think many/some of the chantry followers use "Him" to advance their own personal beliefs in the world. just because people do that. 

 

the maker does exist in a way that, if you think of "Him" as an idea, has influenced people greatly. in any account, i don't think we will ever get a true answer if he exist or dosnt. dnt think the story would ever reveal it to us. i think our characters decided that for themselves. 

 

The idea that life is a computer simulation is actually a real philosophical topic, but alas, this is not the place for it being that we are in the Dragon Age forums, though I do relish your spirited response! I hadn't really considered magic though, since it didn't seem to be confirmation of a Maker. Lyrium exists and we know that, but perhaps it's possible that only part of the Thedosian written histroy and theology is correct, which is why I avoided it. Though, if you could elaborate on it, I'm certain you could be on to something.

 

Ppl think to much an debate to much now adays about computer games, instead of just sitting an liking/enjoying/playing it

 

Thinking about things is why the world is the way it is today. Thinking is fun. Besides, what else is a forum for?

 

maker exist or y ash cure sick man? but god dont exist or why africa aids?

As I reasoned in the giant wall of text that dominates the first post, to create good from evil.

 

I will not touch the second part with a 400 league pole as that is too much of a real-world example, and falls outside the purpose of this topic.

 

The Maker is David Gider (Sorry If I typo'd the name don't kill me XD)

David Gaider.

 

Though I'm certain credit is due to the rest of the developers too since they work so hard to create these fictional universes.

 

Given that we live in a universe that arose without being created by a supernatural being (or at least one where all the evidence currently points to that being the case) I see no reason Thedas should not also have arisen from nothing on its own. On the other hand, the Maker may exist and may have created it. We don't have enough information to say for sure.

 

Unless astrophysics in Thedas advances to the same point it has in our world, we're probably not going to find out one way or another.

We honestly do not necessarily live in a universe that was not created by a supreme being, as much as I hate to tread this line. There's no evidence one way or another to expressly confirm anything, allowing this argument to be used for our realm of being as well, though this is not the place for that, and certainly there is not enough time to debate anything like that here, nor is it allowed and as such this is as far as I will go with it. We don't have enough info in reality parallel to how we don't have enough info in this fictional universe. Of course, there's nothing stopping us from reasoning things out in a mature manner, now is there.

 

 

I do agree a lore section may be a good idea.

 

 

This isn't lore more than it is observations. While I freely admit it is a far more touchy and more in-depth matter, I'm not sure this thread necessitates the need for a lore forum. Though, it would no doubt be for the benefit of the forums.

 

Leliana got ressurected, Proof that the Maker is real.

 

We don't know if that was the Maker. Therefore, the return of Leliana after being deceased in a possible substate in the first game does not in any way necessitate the existance of a Maker. Such a conclusion can only be made through academic reasoning unless there is confirmation one way or another.

[Schreckstoff]

Of course, we have to wonder if random occurances exist in Thedas, and being that there's no random number generator existing there, even though said random number generator isn't truly random, it can be called into question, and as such it has been questioned. A molecule forms because a couple of atoms happened to randomly be together. Would you not say that the forming of that molecule had a cause in the sense that it happened? Is anything truly random or is it some mechanics that we do not clearly understand as of yet that causes us to have to refer to it as random since we don't yet understand it? If you know something isnt actually random, but is random enough to not be known as of now, you still know there is a reason for it, and may someday return to it to fully understand. But if you consider something truly random, there is no reason to ever fully understand it, as understanding it as random, is fully understanding it. Therefore, it seems foolhardy to declare randomness as a proof.

There are pseudo random number generators that are random only to a mostly for programming sufficient extent but they are deemed pseudo for a reason. There are completely random number generators using physical processes to create truly random values to the extent of,our knowledge. 

 

No there was no cause for it to happen it simply were infinite random occurrences during a time time only existed for the duration of said random occurrences.

 

We cannot proof anything with definite knowledge, most of the things we know are simply proven for now by not being disproven and being able to explain things.

[Catche Jagger]

To be honest, I'd prefer to never have any confirmation of the existance or non-existance of the Maker. It's something that's left up to the player to decide for themselves.

It brings up that theme of belief, not just for the players, but for companions and NPCs as well. When the Warden and their companions come to the Urn of Sacred Ashes, we see how belief has shaped each of them. Someone like Leliana will view the urn of the Maker's power while Morrigan will see it as probably just the work of some spirits. Their perception of the urn is shaped by their belief or lack thereof.

So far, belief in the Maker has been portrayed in a fairly balanced way so that both positions hold a good deal of merit and I'd like to see this trend continue.