125 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

The Maker is a minor god (who existed but now is either dead or gone to another realm of existence).

The true God is Gaider.

 

End of line.

[Rivaini Rogue]

i like the "Andraste was a mage and the Maker was a fade spirit" theory but we'll never know because Gaider has specifically said he'll never tell us.  And that's fine by me, none of the characters I play believe in him/her/it.

 

That seems most plausible to me. And I like that theory because it's more interesting.

[Star fury]

My inquisitor is going to burn heretics in the name of Maker whether he exists or not.

[9TailsFox]

My inquisitor is going to burn heretics in the name of Maker whether he exists or not.

Stop discussing religion, now I must go play crusader kings 2 and destroy all dirty inf.. For Perkūnas.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Stop discussing religion, now I must go play crusader kings 2 and destroy all dirty inf.. For Perkūnas.

 

You infidels have no right to talk about the East! *prepares his spy with intrigue 33*

[Eternal Phoenix]

The Maker is a minor god (who existed but now is either dead or gone to another realm of existence).

The true God is Gaider.

 

End of line.

 

Gaider starts with the letter g.

G is the first letter for the word god.

God is spelt with three letters. Three = 3 in numerals = Half Life 3 confirmed! Thank you Based Gaider!

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

My theory is that the "Old Gods" are the Forgotten Ones of Elven lore trapped within the Earth, and then The Creators are akin to The Maker, which is why the Andrastians are like "The Maker abandoned us" and the Tevinter are like "the Old Gods were trapped by the Maker" because Fen'Harel trapped them and then laid the blame at the others feet (Maker left cause the Magisters corrupted the Golden City, Old Gods were imprisoned by The Maker).  Fen'Harel is Flemeth, and all of her plans are coming to fruition.  The darkspawn, the old god baby, the upcoming in DAI demon invasion all part of Fen'Harel's plans to get rid of the gods once and for all and be in charge.  After all, why does an ELVEN prayer for the dead bring back Flemeth in Dragon Age II (whether you actually killed her or not, maybe if you didn't someone else did)?  I really think there is something there it's not just Bioware randomly saying "Oh, so like we totally gave the player the option of killing Flemeth, so lets bring her back... um.. Elven prayer for the dead? Sure, that works." No, there's a plan, and I truly think she's Fen'harel.

 

Plus, we know from Corypheus that the Tevinter Magisters did not corrupt The Golden City, it was already The Black City when they arrived.  What happened? Again, all part of Fen'harel's master plan.

 

EDIT: Also, as mentioned below the elves have "The Eternal City" which is where Fen'Harel has trapped the Creators.  It's in the Fade, same as The Golden City... Yes, I think it's the same city!

Modifié par AbsolutGrndZer0, 27 septembre 2014 - 06:56 .

[whanzephruseke]

Playing the game, one can see that monsters are placed specifically to block paths; trees impede walking off the roads as do knee high mounds of dirt with no grass on them.

 

...

 

Moving on, it’s important to take notice of the objection that the Maker does not exist because evil exists on Thedas, and if the Maker loves the children of said Maker, then it can be said that the Maker is infinite good aside from the additional statements of Thedosian theological texts of the Maker being of this most far-reaching quality of being good.

 

• Can we please agree to rule out anything with a high enough likelihood of merely being a product of game design?

• Are you assuming that the maker of a particular universe must always be good?  Or are you saying that the Maker as depicted in the Chant of Light must be good?  Are we trying to prove that at one time there existed an entity (in game) that created Thedas OR are we trying to prove that the Andrastian genesis story is true?

 

I can't remember do any of the spirits/demons talk about the Maker in game? If they don't then there has to be a giant question mark but if they do then I think it pretty much seals that there is.

 

Justice: "In the Fade, some spirits believe a creator gave us life and separated us from this world.  But do they believe that only because they see the Maker in the dreams of mortals?  So much of the Fade is created by spirits desperate to emulate your kind."
Player Character: "You mean the spirits don't know?"
Justice: "Many do not care.  Demons live in the moment, but those of us who seek something greater...we wonder."

 

The writers have said that the existence of the maker will always be ambiguous. It won't be confirmed or denied.

 

Of course they'll never state it outright, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a case can't be made for or against based on the information already given in the games (or in novels/comics/etc.)
 

 

Existence of Andraste is proved by historical documents.

 

I think what you meant to say is: "We have yet to be given any reason to doubt the veracity of the historical documents that suggest that she did exist."

 

Well "The Maker" could exist now even if it didn't originally.

 

Somebody at some point is probably dreaming about the Maker, enough people doing it could conceivably create one in the fade.....over time it might become some demon/spirit like creature that gains power from belief or "faith" or some sort of thing and "bam!".

 

The Maker becomes real after the fact.

 

Perhaps one day it becomes so powerful so as to go back in time and start the universe?

 

YES THIS

[Kieran G.]

Even if he doesn't exist, Andraste is still someone of great importance and a wonderful Human.

 

Also just thought i should mention. In the Elven Religion, the creators live in something called "The Eternal City" which is inside of the fade. and it wasn't directly said but you can infer when Fen'Harel locked the creators up in "heaven" it was the Eternal city.

 

Just thought i should say.

 

Two Heavenly cities supposedly both holding gods/god in the fade.

 

Could they be the same place? maybe.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Even if he doesn't exist, Andraste is still someone of great importance and a wonderful Human.

 

Also just thought i should mention. In the Elven Religion, the creators live in something called "The Eternal City" which is inside of the fade. and it wasn't directly said but you can infer when Fen'Harel locked the creators up in "heaven" it was the Eternal city.

 

Just thought i should say.

 

Two Heavenly cities supposedly both holding gods/god in the fade.

 

Could they be the same place? maybe.

 

Ah yeah! Thank you! I knew there was something I was missing from my theory but I couldn't remember what it was... the possible correlation between the "Eternal City" and the "Golden City".

[Kieran G.]

Ah yeah! Thank you! I knew there was something I was missing from my theory but I couldn't remember what it was... the possible correlation between the "Eternal City" and the "Golden City".

I would suggest jumping over to the Elder One thread in story. we discuss a lot of theories. and we have a lot of "creepy elf ****" theories.

 

But the Old Gods are locked away underground and the Forgotten One's were sent to the "Abyss" another possible connection. but again

 

Andraste was a great individual and even if the maker doesn't exist i as a player will still follow in her example.

[Dayze]

Well instead of using those lets use something more... empirical and relative to the history of the game. Perhaps allegory, the Elven god Elgar'nan overthrew his father the "Sun", is it coincidence that the Chantry uses a sun as its holy symbol or very clever writing?

 

Interestingly enough his father also wiped out pretty much all the life on Thedas at the time.

 

The Maker; threatens all life on Thedas via The Dark Spawn.

 

And didn't he put his father/The Sun into the earth?  Kind of makes you think of the Old Gods there.

[darkiddd]

This is a widespread error of human logic that everything has to have a cause which is simply wrong. We have proof of true random occurrences and can even generate them. No one switched on the lights, nothing always was, through infinite random encounters one occurred that spawned the universe, at least that's a popular theory much more grounded in reality. 

 

Also never forget that the act of perceiving something defines the outcome. 

 

Because the universe coming out of nothing makes a lot of sense right?

[Little Princess Peach]

the maker IS REALY REAL!

he is right here on these very fourms

he is the Gaider

[Almostfaceman]

I think the Maker is real. Andraste's ashes prove it. Now, it has been posited that the Ashes work due to belief. I think the weakness of this argument is of course that if the supernatural was at the beck and call of faith, Thedas as it exists now would not exist. The Maker, magic, and so forth would bow to the wishes of the faithful. There would be no injustice. There would be no suffering. The world would exist as we wish it to exist. This is what the faithful would want from a maker and they would empower that existence. 

 

No, it fits that there are powers independent of faith, independent of wishful thinking. These greater beings, these Old Gods (Dragons) the Fade and the Maker, are proof of higher orders of supernatural existence that are at war and mold Thedas through the chaos resulting from said war. 

[Adz_Cobra]

THE MAKER IS SANDAL!

[Amirit]

 

I think what you meant to say is: "We have yet to be given any reason to doubt the veracity of the historical documents that suggest that she did exist."

 

No, I mean with so many historical documents from very different independent sources we can be sure that such figure existed. There WAS a war, elves WERE freed and huge troops WERE leaded by a woman named Andraste. Too many witnesses from the opposite sides with the reasons to hate each other agreed on the subject. 

 

It does not contradict the beautiful idea of Maker as a product of collective dream, but existence of some "Andraste - the leader of the army" is not doubtful. 

[whanzephruseke]

No, I mean with so many historical documents from very different independent sources we can be sure that such figure existed. There WAS a war, elves WERE freed and huge troops WERE leaded by a woman named Andraste. Too many witnesses from the opposite sides with the reasons to hate each other agreed on the subject. 

 

It does not contradict the beautiful idea of Maker as a product of collective dream, but existence of some "Andraste - the leader of the army" is not doubtful. 

 

While I might disagree with your wording, I do agree with your sentiment, in that for the sake of this particular debate we should assume that the historical Andraste did exist, if only so that we can have a foundation to start from.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

While I might disagree with your wording, I do agree with your sentiment, in that for the sake of this particular debate we should assume that the historical Andraste did exist, if only so that we can have a foundation to start from.

 

Well right, just like it's been established that real world religious figures DID exist... whether they had the powers/roles the religion attributes to them, that's not known as much. (I specifically am avoiding mentioning any particular religious figures, just to keep it on topic)  So, I agree that we can prove that Andraste did exist, Archon Hassarian betrayed her, etc.  Plus, what about The Gauntlet? I mean, all that was set up by someone... the ashes have power, the immortal Guardian is there... craaazy stuff.

 

Wasn't it in DAA that Anders suggested that he thinks Andraste was a mage?

[bazzag]

The Maker does exist. Bioware created Thedas, and all the things in it. Bioware also created the fade. This makes bioware....The maker.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

The Maker does exist. Bioware created Thedas, and all the things in it. Bioware also created the fade. This makes bioware....The maker.

 

That's been said before, but as was said then, we are talking about in world, not looking for a fourth wall breaking answer.

[Dusksworn]

That's been said before, but as was said then, we are talking about in world, not looking for a fourth wall breaking answer.

Well, I've had several theories about the whole matter, ranging from him simply being the Spirit of Creativity, which would have been the first Spirit, through to him being the source of the Song in all of the magical substances, being the Golden/Black City itself, all the way to him actually being a sort of Azathoth expy. Maybe all of these at once.

 

I mean, the Black City probably has a black throne in it somewhere, and it is at the center of the everchanging formless chaos of the Fade. Whatever the Black City houses, it houses the source of some of the most horrific monsters known to Thedas and holds within it the secret of the Taint itself. Avernus was drawn towards it in his dreams...

 

Also, the whole music and singing thing reminded me of all the music Azathoth needs to stay asleep. So.

 

That's the real secret about the Maker. He's the Blind Idiot God whose awakening will result in the destruction of all of the reality that he dreamt up. That's what the Magisters really did when they visited the Golden City. They disturbed his peaceful slumber and brought him ever closer to awakening.

 

Just half joking with all of this.

[boissiere]

The Maker has a friend : the Unmaker who is also the antimatter of the Maker!

[Dragons74]

The presence of spirits/demons, the ability to see the black city in the fade, and the fade itself seem to imply a diety (not to mention the argument of life itself proves the diety as nothing can't come from nothing). The ashes of Andraste and their magical guardians/powers seem to validate the maker/Andraste belief as well.