77 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

So long as destroying the Reapers seems like the logical, pragmatic extension of the trilogy's events and so long as the Catalyst reaches into Shepard's brain for a form to take, a version of the indoctrinated-Shepard mindset will be viable.  Without meta-gaming, it's the only direction that makes sense to me. 

 

I will stand with many of you out there and will NOT purchase ME4 until Bioware pulls us out of their toilet.   I will be reading the ME4 forums (or the next ME game) to see if they have.

 

Or, Dale, you could just shoot the tube, appreciate what's there, and join the true "many" who have moved on with their lives and still dig the universe. It's not as if the endings in ME1 and ME2 made much more sense, after all, what with the magical link between hopper Saren and Sovereign and "absorb the essence of a species" and the baby Reaper.  There's a lot of unexplained hand-waved phenomenon in the MEU; you can't even get beyond the first mission without coming in contact with it.

[TurianRebel212]

TurianRebel212 --

 

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to acquire this and post it here for those of us who started playing ME3 recently.  I watched the entire 2+ hours of it.  In short, that's quite a bit of FANTASTIC research, analysis, and thought (including video editing -- which I'm into).   One thing I learned too late in life is to assess someone's TIME, ENERGY, and THOUGHT into something.   That speaks BIG to me.

 

I respect those who like the "bittersweet" ending (and tell us to "stop whining")  -- but it looks like the MAJORITY of us mega-ditto the author's take on quote, "Abomination of an ending".   Yes, some can all say this is a GAME and dismiss it....and go play the next game. 

 

Not so fast.  We're all different.  Many of us have poured not only our $$$ into this, but countless hours, interest, and soul into this series.   Bioware may flippantly be in it just for the bucks, but looks like it might backfire for them when they royally ppiiss off a majority of their customers (us).  

 

The author suggests a strong BOYCOTT for treating us like dirt -- and more than just gripe, offers a pliable SOLUTION to save the series -- introducing the INDOCTRINATION theory.   In another thread I suggested we expected some answers -- which (as expected) was countered with (more or less) "ahhh, stick it in your ear; you don't need any answers -- leave it a mystery".   To each their own.  There are games with puzzles (like Tomb Raider) and in contrast there are puzzle games (like the Myst series).  ME is a little of both in that it has mostly action, story, and some light puzzles.  Fine if there are some mysteries -- but not rewarded with a wet mop in our face for an ending.  If ME4 wants to start fresh with new characters & new story -- at LEAST fix ME3's ending and go on.

 

Which gets back to the reason I created this thread -- looking for clues.  Looks like others are seeing the same things ... so I guess I'm not going nuts.   It was also pointed out in the movie that Shep was imagining things from the start (seeing the kid playing with the fighter jet).  Slow indoctrination.    Too many clues at the end to prove Shep was indoctrinated.   Not real.  Anderson & TIM are trying to break Shep's will to resist, then further, give him 3 choices (of which one is the only way to defeat the Reapers) ... and I'll choose that ending soon.

 

The last moments in this "fairyland" reminded me of Shep's encounter with Leviathan where that was a "fairyland" of dialogue there too.

 

I will stand with many of you out there and will NOT purchase ME4 until Bioware pulls us out of their toilet.   I will be reading the ME4 forums (or the next ME game) to see if they have.

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this thread.  They are appreciated.

 

Wow, that was really cool and nice (something not seen when talking about the ending of ME3, lol), you are welcome, happy to help. That's pretty much the jest of it, again there are some other things outside of the games that I think are basically required reading-( Arca Monolith and the Paul Grayson narrative) but that's pretty much the main jest of IT. 

 

 

And the ending of ME3 is vague and "off" for a reason. I've always thought so and always will. 

 

I'll probably buy ME4 whether it's Shepard or not, I was addicted to the MP of ME3 and I suspect ME4 will have a significant multi-player suite. 

 

 

But yeah.... .BioWare needs to stop being TrollWare and give us answers. 

 

 

"Conceptional Prototype" lolololol. Epic TROLLololol By BioWare. Lulz. 

[Farangbaa]

Why would Bioware give you answers?

It's been years. You're still believing in the most preposterous coping mechanism I've ever seen. You're still talking about the endings.

You know; lots of speculation for everyone. I think we can all agree that was a massive succes.




But, honestly, people. The Catalyst is a ruthless, calculating machine. It has two options:

a) wake you up and have you use the Crucible.
don't wake you up and leave you to die.

Obviously it's going to pick a) because it loves to gamble, right?
And after you've made you decision, it puts slideshows in your head for your comfort.

What a guy.

[AlanC9]

In short, that's quite a bit of FANTASTIC research, analysis, and thought (including video editing -- which I'm into).   One thing I learned too late in life is to assess someone's TIME, ENERGY, and THOUGHT into something.   That speaks BIG to me.

Hmm... I've learned the exact opposite of that, as least as regards time and energy. I've seen too many cases where time and energy have been devoted to theories that are, in the end, nonsense. Time and energy just prove that someone really believed in what he was doing, nothing more. (And if someone's a professional they don't even prove that much, but we're all amateurs here.)

The application of this principle to the current thread I leave as an exercise for the reader.

[AlanC9]

But yeah.... .BioWare needs to stop being TrollWare and give us answers.

Are you sure you want answers? Would you actually be better off if Bio told you that the literalists were right all down the line?

Because we both know that's the only answer you'll ever get. Though it's not inconceivable that Bio might retcon IT into being true. (Ick)

[ahsari2014]

It's an odd question, really. The boy on Earth was simply just a real kid that died during the invasion. IT loyalists have used this to their advantage on showing the indoctrinated Shepard fighting his own conscience. It may have been a coincidence, or the Catalyst simply took on the form of the child, because it may have noticed that Shepard was paying attention to the boy on Earth, or it read Shep's mind while Shepard was on the Citadel. It's hard to explain like other things in the series.

. The Cataclyst can read Shepards mind. Remember the Leviathans. They did the same thing with Shepard. And the Catalyst was created by the Leviathans . Maybe this mindreading is just a matter of applying the proper technology.

[KaiserShep]

Are you sure you want answers? Would you actually be better off if Bio told you that the literalists were right all down the line?

Because we both know that's the only answer you'll ever get.

 

It's certainly the easiest one to affirm.

[AlanC9]

I figure if Bio was ever going to pretend that they intended IT, that would have happened many months ago.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Just like the government to this day tells us that a single magic bullet via ass pull killed Kennedy. And mysteriously all of the witnesses died within the next 5 years. Amazing! It's all we're ever going to get from official channels. But we know otherwise. Lots of speculation from everyone.

 

The EC can be looked at as a cover up of the indoctrination plot because it was written afterward, and it has a bunch of slides that resemble communist propaganda posters. It also has a memorial scene that takes place on the jungle world... how the hell do they know the status of Anderson and Shepard when the mass relays are down? Nearest habitable world might be several light years away. Scene would have to be several years later. No one aged. At least the older humans should have some grey hairs. Maybe some should have been eaten by local wildlife. Liara should have at least had one child probably with Javik. And the ship is repaired. How did they make repairs to the wrecked hull and the damaged engines and drive core without a factory nearby to manufacture the parts? Then after all of that we get the breath scene. Shepard can't wait years to take a breath. It's a cover up, I tell you! Lies! All lies!

[Farangbaa]

Just like the government to this day tells us that a single magic bullet via ass pull killed Kennedy. And mysteriously all of the witnesses died within the next 5 years. Amazing! It's all we're ever going to get from official channels. But we know otherwise. Lots of speculation from everyone.

 

The EC can be looked at as a cover up of the indoctrination plot because it was written afterward, and it has a bunch of slides that resemble communist propaganda posters. It also has a memorial scene that takes place on the jungle world... how the hell do they know the status of Anderson and Shepard when the mass relays are down? Nearest habitable world might be several light years away. Scene would have to be several years later. No one aged. At least the older humans should have some grey hairs. Maybe some should have been eaten by local wildlife. Liara should have at least had one child probably with Javik. And the ship is repaired. How did they make repairs to the wrecked hull and the damaged engines and drive core without a factory nearby to manufacture the parts? Then after all of that we get the breath scene. Shepard can't wait years to take a breath. It's a cover up, I tell you! Lies! All lies!

 

Lol.

 

I see the slideshow as BioWare thinking:

 

"Jesus, look at these people. Endless, relentless whining about not having 'closure', like they've lost a *bleep* *bleep* *bleeeeep* family member. Are you seeing this ****??

 

Somebody better draw some pictures and give these people the Hollywood happy ending feeling they crave"

[AlanC9]

I lost the ability to tell when sH0tgUn jUliA's being serious about a year ago. This may be a tribute to her writing ability; anyway, I like to think that.

[Farangbaa]

I lost the ability to tell when sH0tgUn jUliA's being serious about a year ago. This may be a tribute to her writing ability; anyway, I like to think that.

 

The last 10 words give away her state of mind.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, that one was a softball.

[von uber]

Yeah, that one was a softball.

 

Coming from the land of tea and apologising when you bump into someone, I've seen this reference but never got it - can you explain what it means if you would be so kind old chap? Much obliged.

[AlanC9]

It's a baseball metaphor, used when something typically would have been difficult or serious but this time it wasn't. I believe it comes from the idea that softball is a debased, weak, and somewhat childish version of baseball, like checkers as opposed to chess. (Note that this isn't actually true.)

 

In an actual baseball game, it's used to mean that the pitcher made a mistake and the ball he just threw was easy for the batter to hit. In conversations, it implies that a remark was disingenuous, or something along those lines. In the case above, I meant that jUliA made it easy to tell that her post wasn't all that serious by including the last line, though her usual strategy is to make that harder to determine.

[Bob from Accounting]

There's a lot of unexplained hand-waved phenomenon in the MEU; you can't even get beyond the first mission without coming in contact with it.

 

My goodness gracious, I must see this exact same post from you with a few words moved around several times a day. You're apparently incredibly convinced that you're revealing mind-blowing information in responding to just about everything with "ME 1 and 2 had problems too."

 

I'm curious. Do you whine this way about every story you come across? Or are you more the type of person who deludes themselves into believing their fiction of choice is free or errors?

[Sir DeLoria]

My goodness gracious, I must see this exact same post from you with a few words moved around several times a day.
 
I'm curious. Do you whine this way about every story you come across? Or are you more the type of person who deludes themselves into believing their fiction of choice is free or errors?

I'm curious. Do you always have to be condescending and rude?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dale, you could just shoot the tube, appreciate what's there, and join the true "many" who have moved on with their lives and still dig the universe. It's not as if the endings in ME1 and ME2 made much more sense, after all, what with the magical link between hopper Saren and Sovereign and "absorb the essence of a species" and the baby Reaper.  There's a lot of unexplained hand-waved phenomenon in the MEU; you can't even get beyond the first mission without coming in contact with it.

 

As I've said before: Verisimilitude. 

 

I don't think you're really distinguishing between levels of different violations or explanations in that aspect. 

 

I've thought this for a while now, and I'm not going to say further on it, but I think it's unjust criticism to put everything on the same level as you do, especially when you're keen to dismiss some events even though they are logically given justification in universe and out compared to other events. 

 

It's why I think your fiction-counter is wacky, and I think you keep it that way intentionally for whatever reason. That's the end of that.

 

Despite the usual inclination to attack and discredit David the Blob, I think he does have a point there (though I'm also more than willing to go ahead and blow his argument out of the water as well, seeing as he deformed his own argument with smug insinuations). 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

goodness gracious

 

HE SAID THE MAGIC WORD

 

[dreamgazer]

As I've said before: Verisimilitude. 

 

I don't think you're really distinguishing between levels of different violations or explanations in that aspect. 

 

I've thought this for a while now, and I'm not going to say further on it, but I think it's unjust criticism to put everything on the same level as you do, especially when you're keen to dismiss some events even though they are logically given justification in universe and out compared to other events. 

 

It's why I think your fiction-counter is wacky, and I think you keep it that way intentionally for whatever reason. That's the end of that.

 

Are you implying that I'm not genuine with my comments? Do you really want to take this into personal territory again, Massively? 

 

I don't agree with the bolded, for many reasons, but that's perfectly fine.  You're leading the discussion in a direction I'd actually prefer to avoid. 

 

My goodness gracious, I must see this exact same post from you with a few words moved around several times a day. You're apparently incredibly convinced that you're revealing mind-blowing information in responding to just about everything with "ME 1 and 2 had problems too."

 

I'm curious. Do you whine this way about every story you come across? Or are you more the type of person who deludes themselves into believing their fiction of choice is free or errors?

 

Who's whining? More importantly, who's stating that any particular fiction is free of errors?

 

I actually like all three entries in the trilogy, but it's important to realize where the "flaws" actually started instead of singling one entry out and demanding that it abide by rules that the series has never adhered to. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Are you implying that I'm not genuine with my comments? Do you really want to take this into personal territory again, Massively? 

 

I don't agree with the bolded, for many reasons, but that's perfectly fine.  You're leading the discussion in a direction I'd actually prefer to avoid. 

 

No Dream. I'm not saying or implying that you're not being genuine with your comments.

 

I'm saying I don't find your comments to be genuine. 

 

Otherwise, I'm going to be with Blob again on how you defined your response. 

 

We have a separate idea of where the flaws began and I think it's created a sour response from you. I disagree with your assertion on singling out one entry. Said entry is, by another measure of verisimilitude compared to yours, where the majority of the flaws started. Which is what I am of the opinion of. 

 

Yes, I do demand that the last game abide by rules that the series very much had adhered to up to that point.

[dreamgazer]

No Dream. I'm not saying or implying that you're not being genuine with your comments.

 

I'm saying I don't find your comments to be genuine. 

 

Otherwise, I'm going to be with Blob again on how you defined your response. 

 

We have a separate idea of where the flaws began and I think it's created a sour response from you. I disagree with your assertion on singling out one entry. Said entry is, by another measure of verisimilitude compared to yours, where the majority of the flaws started. Which is what I am of the opinion of. 

 

Yes, I do demand that the last game abide by rules that the series very much had adhered to up to that point.

 

Explain how the Prothean cipher could actually work, the Thorian's ability to clone armed asari, and the Saren-Sovereign link that led to his defeat. 

 

Explain Lazarus' ability to restart a dead brain and how the Reapers absorb the essence of a species in creation of a organic-synthetic Cthulhu.

 

I certainly don't agree with the bold, whether it's in the series' use of hand-waved magic or its inability to avoid railroading, constrained decisions, and general contrivances.   They're all "guilty" and I'm entirely genuine with my position on it, as well as my appreciation of all three despite their flaws.  You can label it as sour, or lacking verisimilitude, or whatever you'd like. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Explain how the Prothean cipher could actually work, the Thorian's ability to clone armed asari, and the Saren-Sovereign link that led to his defeat. 

 

Explain Lazarus' ability to restart a dead brain and how the Reapers absorb the essence of a species in creation of a organic-synthetic Cthulhu.

 

I certainly don't agree with the bold, whether it's in the series' use of hand-waved magic or its inability to avoid railroading, constrained decisions, and general contrivances.   They're all "guilty", and I'm entirely genuine with my position on it.  You can label it as sour, or lacking verisimilitude, or whatever you'd like. 

 

I don't think there's any explanation that I could make that you would accept, or would fall not fall into the realm of headcanon, but otherwise, yes, I do label your sour opinion as genuinely misguided myself. I'll do as you say and view at as a flaw in your opinion that I see. Otherwise, I'm fine. As I said. I don't doubt that you're being genuine in your statements or criticisms. I'm saying I don't find your statements and criticisms to be genuine. That's as far as this is likely going to go.

[dreamgazer]

I don't think there's any explanation that I could make that you would accept, or would fall not fall into the realm of headcanon, but otherwise, yes, I do label your sour opinion as genuinely misguided myself. I'll do as you say and view at as a flaw in your opinion that I see. Otherwise, I'm fine.

 

And I'll do the same with yours, especially in regards to ME2.  It's the way opinions work, after all. 

[KaiserShep]

I'm curious. Do you always have to be condescending and rude?

 

Do frogs bump their asses a-hoppin'?