Alistair says that the demon was put into the mage whereas in the harrowing the mage is put into the fade. Just a writing hole or are there different harrowing procedures in different circles. Sounds like having a demon put into a mage would give the demon a greater advantage. But how would they do that?
Dragon Age are the only games I have ever played where the mages kick serious arse.
Alistair says that the demon was put into the mage whereas in the harrowing the mage is put into the fade. Just a writing hole or are there different harrowing procedures in different circles. Sounds like having a demon put into a mage would give the demon a greater advantage. But how would they do that?
Dragon Age are the only games I have ever played where the mages kick serious arse.
It could simply be from Alistair's perspective. As far as he would know, the mage uses lyrium, collapses, and then they wait to see if mage can resist the demon.
Well I personally don't think that the 40% Harrowing survival rate is quite right simply because we don't know whether or not Humbert or Jowan would have passed their Harrowings, and it's pretty well hammered into you that the First Enchanter only signs off on Mages that he thinks will be able to resist the Demon. Also if you listen to the lessons closely the teachers really are preparing their pupils with the skills necessary to pass the Harrowing, even if the students themselves are not aware of that fact.
So Irving at least thought that Humbert could've passed if he hadn't refused to undertake his Harrowing. Jowan ... I personally think that he probably wouldn't have been able to pass even if he hadn't decided to dabble in Blood Magic.
So perhaps a fairer way of putting it is that out of the recent Harrowings we know of in the Circle 2/3 passed. Not great odds in a life & death test but it's also a small sample size and we know that every circle mage in the game undertook and passed their Harrowings.
Something that has always bothered me is the question of whether or not the cast of the Harrowing is partially "scripted" by the Mages that set it up ... dialog talks about how the demon hunting you was contained, were the other actors also bound? Or does the Harrowing ritual tend to draw spirits that represent aspects of the Mage's personality? (Valor / Rage / Pride / Sloth)
Well, they're not exactly happy. I mean, no emotions, right? They're content, a very fine word which, when you get right down to it, means "I have no real feelings towards this positively or negatively". The Tranquil are, essentially, walking/talking tables. I'd basically equate it to death, though if those two examples (Karl and Pharomond) are truly indicative, it could be a whole lot worse. Either way, it's not exactly something you'd be glad to have forced on you.
Especially since, you know, you would no longer experience gladness.
You could also never experience sadness, heartbreak, or anguish, so you couldn't feel those about it either. And barring unusual circumstances you will never suffer possession.
Something that has always bothered me is the question of whether or not the cast of the Harrowing is partially "scripted" by the Mages that set it up ... dialog talks about how the demon hunting you was contained, were the other actors also bound? Or does the Harrowing ritual tend to draw spirits that represent aspects of the Mage's personality? (Valor / Rage / Pride / Sloth)
I've been wondering that myself. This particular Harrowing had a demon that wanted to forcibly possess you, a demon that wanted to trick you into it, and a "benevolent" spirit that you had cause to be worried about. It's a pretty nice cross-section of the dangers of the Fade. I have to wonder if the Circle Mages purposefully set up a scenario in which these three tests would occur.
Well I personally don't think that the 40% Harrowing survival rate is quite right simply because we don't know whether or not Humbert or Jowan would have passed their Harrowings, and it's pretty well hammered into you that the First Enchanter only signs off on Mages that he thinks will be able to resist the Demon. Also if you listen to the lessons closely the teachers really are preparing their pupils with the skills necessary to pass the Harrowing, even if the students themselves are not aware of that fact.
So Irving at least thought that Humbert could've passed if he hadn't refused to undertake his Harrowing. Jowan ... I personally think that he probably wouldn't have been able to pass even if he hadn't decided to dabble in Blood Magic.
So perhaps a fairer way of putting it is that out of the recent Harrowings we know of in the Circle 2/3 passed. Not great odds in a life & death test but it's also a small sample size and we know that every circle mage in the game undertook and passed their Harrowings.
Something that has always bothered me is the question of whether or not the cast of the Harrowing is partially "scripted" by the Mages that set it up ... dialog talks about how the demon hunting you was contained, were the other actors also bound? Or does the Harrowing ritual tend to draw spirits that represent aspects of the Mage's personality? (Valor / Rage / Pride / Sloth)
Yet, if you do follow a certain set of actions, Jowan can be sent into the fade to save Connor and ends up kicking a desire demon's ass (provided you win), is this in anyway comparable to a Harrowing? Cause if it is he passed with flying colors, admitably he's probably grown a bit more of a spine after screwing up big time twice but to me his been able to accomplish this discredits the way he had been judged initially.
Ok ... not getting the "quote" or even the "paste" functions to work ... oh well.
Riverdaleswhiteflash ... I actually think that there are four lessons that are taught in your Harrowing.
(1) Valor:
Spirits can be just as dangerous to deal with as Demons, labels aren't as cut and dry and one would wish while in the Fade.
(2) Sloth:
Although Demons are dangerous, there are times that dealing with them are necessary or even desirable, just never be foolish enough to forget that THEY have home front advantage.
(3) Rage:
Straight up resistance via force, crude but a necessary fact of life in the Fade when everything can literally eat everything else.
(4) Mouse:
"Combat is a test of will, so will is also combat?" The true threats of the Fade are those you never see until it's too late, and although Rage would have devoured your essence I'm not sure that it would have actually been able to truly possess you even had it won.
-----
On Jowan, although I totally agree that since leaving the Circle Jowan has increased in his strength of will, I'm not entirely sure that him being able to face down a Desire Demon that isn't primarily focused on him when he was prepared to do so is the same as passing an actual Harrowing since it's my understanding that the entire point of the Harrowing is that the Mage has to be able to pass it at their weakest, roused from their bed in the middle of the night and thrust into the Fade while still rubbing the sleep from their eyes. (And although I can't prove it I wouldn't be surprised if the Mage wasn't run through some "special drills" or given some extra chores the day before as well.)
Also, am I completely misremembering things or wasn't Jowan supposed to be paid for the poisoning with vague promises of being allowed to return to the Circle? -- Assuming that my memory isn't failing me then I don't think he'd be able to have resisted whatever demon was playing Mouse's role, but of course if I am mistaken on Jowan's payment then said theory is probably unfounded.
(2) Sloth:
Although Demons are dangerous, there are times that dealing with them are necessary or even desirable, just never be foolish enough to forget that THEY have home front advantage.
The underlined bit is not a lesson the Circle would willingly teach. Dealing with spirits is tolerated with reluctance due to the things it grants that you can't do as well otherwise. Dealing with demons is not tolerated, since even Spirits not bad enough to count as demons are freaking dangerous. Maybe Sloth was bycatch?
Actually I'm not sure that I agree, dealing with Demons is a lesson that the Chantry wouldn't teach or tolerate, but I get the distinct impression that the Circle pulls a lot more from under the Templar's noses then they realize or are willing to actually punish. Besides, even if the Harrowing is partially "scripted" by the Mages setting it up, how would the Templars actually know what the script was?
Something to think about is the manner in which Sloth Demons are written about in the "Beyond the Veil: Spirits and Demons" Codex by some Enchanter, (One of the first if not the first Codex Entry a Mage will find.) and they are portrayed as not quite "cute and fuzzy" but only rarely dangerous. In contrast, the Codex Entry on Sloth Demons themselves is written from the perspective of a Templar and are portrayed in a much more dangerous light. (However, even that Codex makes mention that many Fade Scholars find it very hard to understand that Sloth Demons are NOT Slothful, they just feed off of it.)
I don't know, if we are going to toy with the idea that The Harrowing is meant to test the Mage on multiple fronts via a pseudo script I just find it hard to believe that Sloth wasn't there as part of that lesson considering how well the rest of the actors fit together as lessons/tests. Remember how sure he was that you were going to fail your test and I'm convinced that he knew what Mouse was the entire time.
They are content because they literally cannot be anything else. They have no emotions at all. They feel no joy, no sorrow, no love, no fear, no anything.
I wonder about that, because when going through the Circle Tower to get the aid of the mages after you save them, you encounter Owain and he mentions that he would not like to die? Would that not imply that there is still some feelings in a Tranquil? ( Or at the very least in Owain? )
Well to be fair, wanting to live is not the same thing as feeling emotions. Owain finds his current state to be "agreeable" and describes his previous self as being clouded with conflicting emotions.
Also makes one wonder if he would have had a similar reaction as Ander's ex-lover did in Dragon Age II if "cured" or if he would still be ok with his state,
I wonder about that, because when going through the Circle Tower to get the aid of the mages after you save them, you encounter Owain and he mentions that he would not like to die? Would that not imply that there is still some feelings in a Tranquil? ( Or at the very least in Owain? )
One of the Tranquil who works behind Lambert's back gives a small smile as she does so, and if you manage to save any of the Tranquil in the Tower who are being devoured by Shades one of their lines is "Thank you. That was an uncomfortable experience." Gaider says they feel nothing, and does not seem to mean it figuratively, but that interpretation doesn't seem to be supported by his works.
Retour en haut