133 réponses à ce sujet

[CapivaRasgor]

So, I didn't know how to put what I meant precisely in a thread title(I think) so let me elaborate: what I mean is that I'm wondering how some factions will manage to handle warfare in Inquisition, more specifically the mages and the elves who are under Briala's banner in Orlais.

Mages are far from helpless in a fight and I imagine that by coordinating their spells they can handle being outnumbered, by either blasting choke points, trapping entire units in a rain of elemental destruction or bind corpses and demons to the their control in order to even the odds. Anyway, there are many weapons in their magic arsenal but I think that it's safe to assume that the majority of mages don't have exactly have wordly experience, they spent most of their lives in the Circles, do they know how to build a supply line so they can feed and arm themselves? Assuming that their leadership knows, can they establish a viable supply line? I mean, the average Thedosian is negatively biased towards mages, would the merchants be willing to supply them? Do they even have funds to trade? Plus, I imagine casualties being very costly to them, they can't exaclty open recruiting lines in every place they manage to occupy, people with magical affinity are rare and to use magic in a combat effective way takes years of daily practice, not exactly a time they can afford, bolstering their ranks seems rather problematic.

Personally I see the mages as a moving army, a "horde" if the term applies, sacking village by village in order to supply themselves and then moving, maybe reinforcing a particularly more defensible one as a temporary command base and bobby trapping some of them to slow enemy forces. Can't see that way of fighting being particularly helpful to their cause, if nothing else, it may reinforce the negative view Thedosians have of them. Anyone has any thoughts on that?

As for the city elves - assuming that they are going into open war, which is a big assumption to make - the main issue I see is that very few of them are trained combatants. Sure, they can fight, but I don't see they faring well in a straight battle against an army of professional soldiers, which this case is likely to be the Chevaliers. They could use numbers to their advantage but the humans are more numerous than the elves(I think²), if that is the case, the elves are both outmatched and outnumbered. There is also to mention that Orlesians hate elves, would an Orlesian merchant be willing to supply their war effort? Hell would any human merchant be willing to do so? They could break an alliance with the Dalish, but that is extremely unlikely. They could move from village to village like the mages but they lack the magical abilities that would allow them to quickly overpower a village like the mages would. The way I see it I think they will likely be resorting on guerrilla hit and runs on easy targets, likely trade routes. I’m also wondering how the Eluvian network will help them, could they use the quick travel to launch surprise attacks and vanish while their targets are still in disarray? There is the question on how much they’ll use the civil war and the Breach to their advantage.

So again, what are your thoughts on that?

[EmperorSahlertz]

The City Elves aren't really engaging in open warfare, so that is an entirely different set of circumstances to consider.

 

Regarding the mages, they are probably capable of handling themselves in a fight, but they have to take care of their numbers, since they are limited. Any loss the mages suffer will have a far larger impact than any other "army", especially since even if they could repalce their losses, it would take decades to train the apprentice to become an adequate battle mage. The advantage of their small numbers however will be that they will be easier to supply and maintain.

 

But given the description of the Hinterlands, it seems that both Mages and Templars have taken to looting the civilian populations, to resupply themselves.

[Master Shiori]

I'm glad somebody here took the time to think things through and reach some logical conclusions. 

 

I simply don't see mages or elves winning. 

 

As you said yourself, mages will have a truly hard time establishing a sustainable supply lines and covering any loses they sustain in the war. That's assuming they're even well organized to begin with. After that summit at Andoral's Reach, mages could have fractured into multiple groups, some of which set off on their own. Their only advantage is that Orlais is too preocupied with the whole civil war to properly turn it's attention to the mage/templar war. 

 

The City Elves already proved quite ineffective against the Orlesian army in Masked Empire. They not only lack training but also proper weapons, armor and tactics. Also, they don't own much and are generally poor, so financing the war will also be a challenge for them.

[CapivaRasgor]

The City Elves aren't really engaging in open warfare, so that is an entirely different set of circumstances to consider.

Regarding the mages, they are probably capable of handling themselves in a fight, but they have to take care of their numbers, since they are limited. Any loss the mages suffer will have a far larger impact than any other "army", especially since even if they could repalce their losses, it would take decades to train the apprentice to become an adequate battle mage. The advantage of their small numbers however will be that they will be easier to supply and maintain.

But given the description of the Hinterlands, it seems that both Mages and Templars have taken to looting the civilian populations, to resupply themselves.

Despite what've seen so far, I'm very skeptical that the conflict will be confined to the Hinterlands. Like you said, it's a very harsh land, specially after the Blight, not to mention that both Templars and Mages need lyrium, so I can easily see the conflict expanding north towards the Frostback Mountains and Orzammar.

[Althix]

guerilla warfare is their best and only option.

 

for obvious reasons really.

[Dean_the_Young]

They doubt they will.

 

Or at least, not on a scale or level of organization that I would consider a war. Calling them armed mobs might be generous in some cases. Nothing I have seen in either the Mages or the Orlesian elven uprising has impressed me with the organization, planning, and basic competence to qualify as an army.

[Dean_the_Young]

If it was that easy to handwave, they wouldn't bother with any of this plot buildup. 

 

It'd be a pretty lame joke at least. Since I find the suspense interesting.

 

Oh, I think there will be violence and even battles. I just think it will run more along the lines of mobs meandering around, occasionally bumping into each other as much by accident as purpose. Every once in a while some energetic and motivated small leader convinces a group to aim for some bubble of an objective which starts a rompus.

 

But strategy? Logistics? Unified tactics of any scale? Doubtful. The Circle revolutionaries didn't even plan or prepare for the war to follow, and many of those leaders are likely dead after the start. The Elven rebels didn't even have that.

 

I suspect that it's going to resemble the Afghan civil war or Chinese warlordism more than, say, any revolutionary war or separitist conflict. The only factions I would put any money on having the coherence and direction to wage a campaign would be the Templars, and I have my doubts about them.

[Wulfram]

If they're smart, by making alliances. Perhaps even with each other. They could complement each other well, with the mages providing the quality and the elves the numbers. Or with dalish, ferelden, nevarra or whatever side of the civil war might offeru

[EmperorSahlertz]

Calling the Elves an army is being very generous. They are at best insurgents.

[Disolus]

Very interesting topic, hmm, I hadn't thought about this so much. I just sorta assumed the mages were mostly in hiding.
Of course, the mages also have another problem to worry about - demons. If Kirkwall is anything to go by, desperate free mages are likely to turn to blood magic, resulting in an abomination. That's another Mage lost. Especially with the fade being torn open like it is in DA:I. So, essentially, the mages are practically comitting suicide on top of it all.

Yeah, I really can't see mages winning this.

[CapivaRasgor]

They doubt they will.

Or at least, not on a scale or level of organization that I would consider a war. Calling them armed mobs might be generous in some cases. Nothing I have seen in either the Mages or the Orlesian elven uprising has impressed me with the organization, planning, and basic competence to qualify as an army.

This.

It’s almost like both groups acted like this:

Leader: Hey, we’ve been oppressed and mistreated long enough, we won’t stand for this anymore. Let’s kick “the man” in the nuts and fight for freedom and equality!!

Thinking person: And then what? We don’t have the means to keep fighting, we’ll be put down quicly and chances are our restrictions will become even wor—

Mob: FREEDOM AND EQUALITY!!! FREEDOM AND EQUALITY!!!

Thinking person: Hey, no, I’m not disagreeing about fighting but we need to make some plan —

*By chance or circumstance the mob kills ‘the man’, starting a rebellion. After the initial aggression the leader is killed, the rebellion quickly falls in disarray as morale drops.*

Mob now turned Rebels: What do we do now? They’re killing us all over! We are constantly on the run and we’re hungry!

Thinking person now turned into Reluctant leader: Now we need to regroup and stay low, think this through, find some sensible way to make this fight work and failing at that entertain a surrend—

Some of the rebels: NEVER!!

*About half the rebels break away from the group to keep their fight, acting disgusted with the mere thought of surrendering. Without organized leadership they fracture even further among themselves, also lacking the means to properly supply themselves they grow desperate for basic needs, many resort to banditry out of desperation – survival having taking place over their previous goal.*

Rebels: What now?

Reluctant leader: Now? Now we’re f*cked.. chances are that we’ll be put down like animals, unless we miraculously convince an overpowered hero to help us.

One of the rebels: Hey, look there. What’s up with that guy with the glowing green hand approaching? The one with the heavily armed trio at his back.

Reluctant leader: Hopefully they’ll either be the hero I just mentioned. Or they are here to kill us. If it happens to be the latter, just pray that they’ll give us a quick death.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I would call them that myself.

 

But that is still formidable.

Oh trust me insurgents can be a very formidable foe. It just isn't exactly an army, with all the organization, supplies and ranks that follows. Usually they are just a disparate collection of groups unified by purpose.

[Dean_the_Young]

If they're smart, by making alliances. Perhaps even with each other. They could complement each other well, with the mages providing the quality and the elves the numbers. Or with dalish, ferelden, nevarra or whatever side of the civil war might offeru

 

Who would clean the latrines in such an 'alliance'?

 

There's various problems, of course. The elves wouldn't want to subordinate themselves to another mostly human group or serve as the canon fodder so others can be safer. The mages wouldn't want to subordinate themselves to other mundanes (who are as likely to fear them as any human- if not more). But with such non-identical groups, any partnership as equals would easily feel not very equal at all in practice.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I wouldn't say that Fiona is a "skilled leader". She is partially responsible for this entire mess to begin with.

[Pierce Miller]

The Templars aren't exactly in a great state right now either, plus remember blood magic can't be countered.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Templars aren't exactly in a great state right now either, plus remember blood magic can't be countered.

Technically it can. The Blood Mage can still be silenced, and Blood Magic can be dispelled. However, the Templars main weapon, to sever the mage's connection to his mana, is useless against a Blood Mage, since he doesn't even tap into his mana to begin with.

[Hellion Rex]

@OP, I think all you need to do with the City elves is neutralize/gain control of the Eluvian network. Take out Briala, if you can.

[CapivaRasgor]

Acting like they need to be a world class army to begin with is mistake.

As long as they use the tools at their disposal, it's like a bunch of kids with super advanced technology. Good tactics or not, they're dangerous. Mages, guerillas, a network of Eluvian that allows them to hit and run and move faster than birds.

Oh but even to play guerrila style requires planning, after all hit and run has to be planned in order to ensure it's efficiency. I don't have doubts that they can pull it of, but how long they can keep that up before desperation starts clouding their minds?

[CapivaRasgor]

@OP, I think all you need to do with the City elves is neutralize/gain control of the Eluvian network. Take out Briala, if you can.

Looks easy in theory, I doubt that it would be that simple in practice though. I don’t really see Briala engaging in the front lines, even if she is, it would be pretty stupid to carry the key to the Eluvians – her faction’s main advantage – with her and that is without factoring that the Eluvian network is very unfriendly with non-elves.