756 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

 

 

@Vilegrim what you seem to be asking for is unlimited freedom, which just doesn't happen in games with a stronger narrative focus. Your role in this game is not to destroy the chantry, it is to destroy the breaches in the fade and (presumably) whatever is causing them, and to sort out the chaos. Pursuing your own agenda isn't part of that story. It makes perfect sense that, since Cassandra started setting up the Inquisition before the events at Haven (and was maybe supposed to lead it originally?), that she would have chosen chantry-loyal people. Presumably there's nothing in the game that dictates you have to like your advisors. You may not even have to listen to their advice, we shall just have to wait and see. 

 

 

This is being sold as a save the world story: I want to do exactly that, save the world, no world with the Chantry in it is worth saving We where told we could fight the chantry, I want to do exact;y what I was told I could do, they are a bigger threat than any demon.

[AllThatJazz]

This is being sold as a save the world story: I want to do exactly that, save the world, no world with the Chantry in it is worth saving We where told we could fight the chantry, I want to do exact;y what I was told I could do, they are a bigger threat than any demon.

 

Then, er, 'lead it to its bitter end', or whatever it was that Morrigan said in the trailer?  

[Vilegrim]

Then, er, 'lead it to its bitter end', or whatever it was that Morrigan said in the trailer?

 

 

no, it was 'leave' unfortunately.   Lead I could take, burn them all, the price of closing a rift is the execution of every sister and templar within 10 miles.

[The Elder King]

This is being sold as a save the world story: I want to do exactly that, save the world, no world with the Chantry in it is worth saving We where told we could fight the chantry, I want to do exact;y what I was told I could do, they are a bigger threat than any demon.

They stated we can oppose the Chantry. I don't think they ever said we can directly fight them or eliminate them.
Plus, the fact that you think that destroying the Chantry is 'saving the world' material, or that they're a worse threat then and demons, doesn't mean the developers agree (and on the last part, I definitely don't).

[Giubba]

Defined 'meaningful way'.   The Inquisitor sure has plently of experience to lead the Inquisition, right .
Regardless, i was just correcting you on the timeframe.

 

Exactly the Inquisitor is a perfect stranger with potentialy no experience whatsover on espionage,politic or military thus the necessity of counselor. Putting someone that is barely more experienced than him/her doesn't make sense.

[9TailsFox]

I'd actually say Blackwall seems like he would have been a good candidate. He was fairly high-ranking in the Wardens. 

 

Plus, I would never trust a man without a beard to lead my armies. Thus, Blackwall.

No problem magic.

[Vilegrim]

They stated we can oppose the Chantry. I don't think they ever said we can directly fight them or eliminate them.
Plus, the fact that you think that destroying the Chantry is 'saving the world' material, or that they're a worse threat then and demons, doesn't mean the developers agree (and on the last part, I definitely don't).

 

 

 

Demons offer a clear unambiguous threat, the chantry offers a life built open imprisonment and servitude dressed up as salvation...yea the chantry is worse.

[Adanu]

How can you so easily determine Cullen isn't a good adviser, when you clearly have yet to play Inquisition? To turn what is an obvious dislike for the character (an opinion), and make a statement out of it is rather silly, isn't it? As is the fact that some people already dislike some of the characters they've announced without even getting to know them in-game, properly.  Your reasoning that Cullen is a bad fit for an adviser is as ill-founded as those whose opinions are set before they've had a chance to interact with characters in Inquisition.

If your opinion of him not making a good adviser based on what you've seen from previous games, then it's clear you cannot see things past black and white (in this respect). I urge you to remember that Cullen has been through both sides of the equation: What too much freedom, and too little, can do to mages. His unique perspective makes him an exceptionally valuable asset, and a great candidate for an adviser. You say he would need some major changes to be a good adviser, but you haven't taken account the changes we have already seen him through.

 

I'll grant you this: the near-polar opposites of Cullen that we see in Origins and DA2, are not enough for him to make a good leader or adviser- at least NOT when taking each of these individually. Put together, they give him a well-rounded perspective-something any good adviser needs.

Because a person like Cullen is not good leadership material. If they're retconned and rewritten his personality since DA2 I might reconsider, but that would still feel forced.

 

I'm allowed my assessment, and I stand by it. I don't see  it changing without major changes to the character.

[AllThatJazz]

no, it was 'leave' unfortunately.   Lead I could take, burn them all, the price of closing a rift is the execution of every sister and templar within 10 miles.

 

Ah, Then you have my sympathy, I guess??

 

Though I guess you have to pick your battles. This story isn't the battle against the chantry (it can't be, that's a story of its own), but it deosn't mean you can't oppose the chantry within the confines of the narrative, and it doesn't mean there will never be such a story in DA. Wasn't there almost a DA2 expansion which had the chantry invading Kirkwall (I'm assuming that's what Exalted March meant)? Bet you could have done them a fair bit of damage in that ...

[J-Reyno]

The other 2 fanatics I am not happy with having to take you mean? Yea...no thanks.

How you feel about them has nothing to do with the fact that it was their decision, and thus, their reasoning you should be looking for.

[The Elder King]

Exactly the Inquisitor is a perfect stranger with potentialy no experience whatsover on espionage,politic or military thus the necessity of counselor. Putting someone that is barely more experienced than him/her doesn't make sense.

So you think it's perfectly fine to put an inexperienced person at the head of an organization?
You believe that Cullen won't be experienced enough to be an advisor. I don't, based on what could've happened in those years. We'll see how it'll be in the game.

Demons offer a clear unambiguous threat, the chantry offers a life built open imprisonment and servitude dressed up as salvation...yea the chantry is worse.

You don't follow much the books, do you?
And regardless, I still disagree. What the demons and the darkspawn can do is far worse then what the Chantry can ever do.

[Vilegrim]

So you think it's perfectly fine to put an inexperienced person at the head of an org. You don't follow much the books, do you?
And regardless, I still disagree. What the demons and the darkspawn can do is far worse then what the Chantry can ever do.

 

Tell that to the tens or hundreds of thousands who died during the sacred marches, or where annuled, or who alienage elves who tried to keep their culture.  The Dark spawn and demons kill fast, the chantry isn't a glutton, it keeps a steady diet of blood and death over centuries

 

 

And no, I read about a third of Asunder before deciding that people who write good games and people who write good novels aren't necessarily the same (still puts either group way ahead of me in writing talent mind.)

[The Elder King]

So you think it's perfectly fine to put an inexperienced person at the head of an org. You don't follow much the books, do you?
And regardless, I still disagree. What the demons and the darkspawn can do is far worse then what the Chantry can ever do.

Tell that to the tens or hundreds of thousands who died during the sacred marches, or where annuled, or who alienage elves who tried to keep their culture. The Dark spawn and demons kill fast, the chantry isn't a glutton, it keeps a steady diet of blood and death over centuries



And no, I read about a third of Asunder before deciding that people who write good games and people who write good novels aren't necessarily the same (still puts either group way ahead of me in writing talent mind.)

Did I say that the Chantry is a good organization or that they didn't commit terrible acts?
Beside, reading a third of Asunder isn't enough to understand what I meant. The events I'm talking about happened later.
Plus, it seems the Chantry are offering different things to mages, since the latter were attending a peace conference with them.

[Giubba]

So you think it's perfectly fine to put an inexperienced person at the head of an organization?
You believe that Cullen won't be experienced enough to be an advisor. I don't, based on what could've happened in those years. We'll see how it'll be in the game. You don't follow much the books, do you?
And regardless, I still disagree. What the demons and the darkspawn can do is far worse then what the Chantry can ever do.

No in fact it doesn't make any sense but since people cannot bear to not beaing the special snowflake we are back to the same old trope of fantasy, so nothing strange that a perfect nobody is put in charge.

[The Elder King]

No in fact it doesn't make any sense but since people cannot bear to not beaing the special snowflake we are back to the same old trope of fantasy, so nothing strange that a perfect nobody is put in charge.

So because it happens all the time we should be okay that it's happening again?

[J-Reyno]

 

Wow two more years.

 

We are speaking about a person that must have decades of experience for filling that role.

Decades?  Plural?  That is a lot.  Few will live long enough to get that much experience, and for the ones who do.. how many will want to join a kickstarter organization that isn't guaranteed to succeed?  They would have to be interested in the purpose and feel that it is a worthwhile effort.  They'd also have to just feel like doing it, and if they are, feel like it's worth leaving their current position.  The Inquisition is not the (former) Chantry, they do not yet have much influence.  That's something we have to work on throughout the game. What you think is necessary would leave a decidedly few number, each of which would be incredibly hard to get. 

 

Cullen has a desire to help and aid.  He has experience (whether you feel it's enough or not) and he's willing to put that to the test.  He may very well be the absolute best option that we have.

 

Don't let Cassandra and Leliana fool you.  We are very lucky to have them.  The rest are volunteers that want to make the world a better place, and we have to start somewhere.

[duckley]

He had options though. The Seekers would have liked to know that the Knight Commander was breaking Chantry law and was far overstepping her bounds and acting as a viscount for years. Had Cullen contacted Cassandra and the other Seekers before it got out of hand, the situation at the end of act 3 might have never happened. They're pretty much the internal affairs of the Templars, best people to call when a knight commander with a lot of backing gets out of hand. It's a shame they didn't involved sooner, but they didn't know that situation was brewing because nobody told them like Cullen should have.

How do you know he didnt? We only see what we are shown. What happens beyond that is for the writers( and our own head canons)  imagination. . Maybe he wrote to the Seekers to share his worries about Merredith and they didnt show up until it was too late.... Perhaps that is why Leliana and Cassandra pick him?

[azarhal]

 

Don't let Cassandra and Leliana fool you.  We are very lucky to have them.  The rest are volunteers that want to make the world a better place, and we have to start somewhere.

 

 

I think the bold part needs to be kept in mind. The Inquisition is not the Grey Wardens. They don't have political power that allow them to recruit everyone they want to recruit. It's a "sign up here if you want to save the world" contract...and you usually end up with way more "heart people" than competent ones that way.

[Ashelsu]

Then could they be so kind to ship an amnesia potion with a game?  I can't unsee what I've seen and unhear what I've heard, sorry. 

 

David Gaider used to deal with table-top P&P RPGs, he should be perfectly aware, that one of the worst thing a DM can do is allow player to know something that character knows not. That always adds meta-gaming and problems.

 

I'll do my best to keep as neutral as possible, but I wish they had used another character, so that I could meet and discover him along with my character.  

This is exactly the main problem I have with Cullen and all other returning characters. In Mass Effect it makes sense, because it's a trilogy about Shepard and his/her gang. In Dragon Age where protagonist is a different person every game, the horde of returning characters with old baggage is not good. It makes the world smaller, and cameos here are exactly for the player, not protagonist, widening the gap and promoting metagaming. It's just as bad as when PC knows more than the player, btw. (Hi, Vega.) If it is a story about Thedas then it should be about different people and places in Thedas, not the same faces and the same Ferelden every game.

[Vilegrim]

I think the bold part needs to be kept in mind. The Inquisition is not the Grey Wardens. They don't have political power that allow them to recruit everyone they want to recruit. It's a "sign up here if you want to save the world" contract...and you usually end up with way more "heart people" than competent ones that way.

 

 

well I hope I can turn them down.  Or get rid of them.

[Swehall]

Pokemario, on 05 Jul 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

 

Also,Justinia is dead. Cassandra and Leliana join the Inquisition because it was pretty much the Divine's "Plan B". Oh,and because they wholeheartedly believe the Inquisition can set things right.

 Justinia V is dead, when did that happen?

[Giubba]

So because it happens all the time we should be okay that it's happening again?

 
No in fact i'm not. I wouldn't included Cullen in as an advisor and i would had gave to the inquisitor a past that was able to support his elevation as head of a organization such as the inquisition (but maybe this was covered by Bioware).

I will pass over this point as i've always done in all of this years but i really hope that people will have the balls to not start moaning on how the story in inquisition was "cliche" because maker preserve them cause i will not.
 

Decades?  Plural?  That is a lot.  Few will live long enough to get that much experience, and for the ones who do.. how many will want to join a kickstarter organization that isn't guaranteed to succeed?  They would have to be interested in the purpose and feel that it is a worthwhile effort.  They'd also have to just feel like doing it, and if they are, feel like it's worth leaving their current position.  The Inquisition is not the (former) Chantry, they do not yet have much influence.  That's something we have to work on throughout the game. What you think is necessary would leave a decidedly few number, each of which would be incredibly hard to get. 
 
Cullen has a desire to help and aid.  He has experience (whether you feel it's enough or not) and he's willing to put that to the test.  He may very well be the absolute best option that we have.
 
Don't let Cassandra and Leliana fool you.  We are very lucky to have them.  The rest are volunteers that want to make the world a better place, and we have to start somewhere.

An old general retired from age of the Orlesian army? A paied mercenary with decades of experience?

A lot of archetype could fill that role.

[The Elder King]

No in fact i'm not. I wouldn't included Cullen in as an advisor and i would had gave to the inquisitor a past that was able to support his elevation as head of a organization such as the inquisition (but maybe this was covered by Bioware).I will pass over this point as i've always done in all of this years but i really hope that people will have the balls to not start moaning on how the story in inquisition was "cliche" because maker preserve them cause i will not. An old general retired from age of the Orlesian army? A paied mercenary with decades of experience?A lot of archetype could fill that role.

I won't 'moan' about it, though I wish they'd create backgrounds where the PC is already an experienced warrior/rogue/mage.

[J-Reyno]

This is exactly the main problem I have with Cullen and all other returning characters. In Mass Effect it makes sense, because it's a trilogy about Shepard and his/her gang. In Dragon Age where protagonist is a different person every game, the horde of returning characters with old baggage is not good. It makes the world smaller, and cameos here are exactly for the player, not protagonist, widening the gap and promoting metagaming. It's just as bad as when PC knows more than the player, btw. (Hi, Vega.) If it is a story about Thedas then it should be about different people and places in Thedas, not the same faces and the same Ferelden every game.

I shouldn't address this in this topic, but I will since it's being brought up.

 

Some of us enjoy being able to see how other characters evolve along with the story.  These characters are actually the best perspective we have into how the events we experienced as the protagonist have shaped others on a personal level.  I greatly look forward to hearing Leliana mention events of Origins, how she feels about them now or how it may have influenced the person she is today.  I find that to be an incredibly connected roleplaying experience.  How has my former character affected this person in front of me now?  These people are a direct line to showing how we have shaped not only the world, but those who live within it.

 

The inquisitor has twelve primary followers.  Of those... just three have been in past games.  Only two have been party members previously.  One has been a romance option.  And only one will be a party member in this game, and that's not even the one who has never been a party member.  

 

There are nine other new, fresh faces.  Is that not enough?  Is it so bad that those of us who like returning characters have two or three in the group as well?  If so, I think that's a pretty selfish opinion.  Especially since of the nine actual party members we have, eight are new characters.  Two of the returning characters aren't even party members....

 

Super sigh.  I really can't sometimes.

[AllThatJazz]

This is exactly the main problem I have with Cullen and all other returning characters. In Mass Effect it makes sense, because it's a trilogy about Shepard and his/her gang. In Dragon Age where protagonist is a different person every game, the horde of returning characters with old baggage is not good. It makes the world smaller, and cameos here are exactly for the player, not protagonist, widening the gap and promoting metagaming. It's just as bad as when PC knows more than the player, btw. (Hi, Vega.) If it is a story about Thedas then it should be about different people and places in Thedas, not the same faces and the same Ferelden every game.

 

I disagree. The stories are different, but still very much connected (the events of Origins and Awakening led to the events of DA2, the events of DA2 led to those of Inquisition etc), the games take place within a single time span (one century of upheaval) in a relatively small geographical area. While there will be new characters aplenty (it isn't all the same faces, after all), it makes sense to me that others will be recurring, particularly those of a noteworthy position and those who 'get things done' leaders, heroes etc - because people who step up to the plate once, are perhaps more likely to do so again?

 

In general, I also dislike when a char knows too much more than I do, about something I feel I should know more about (Vega didn't bother me, though), but I love knowing more than a character does and seeing how old faces have changed over time Besides, almost anything can promote metagaming if you're a metagamer - if 'but metagaming!' is a reason for not putting something in a game, that game may well end up never getting made.