756 réponses à ce sujet

[AllThatJazz]

 
No in fact i'm not. I wouldn't included Cullen in as an advisor and i would had gave to the inquisitor a past that was able to support his elevation as head of a organization such as the inquisition (but maybe this was covered by Bioware).

I will pass over this point as i've always done in all of this years but i really hope that people will have the balls to not start moaning on how the story in inquisition was "cliche" because maker preserve them cause i will not.
 

An old general retired from age of the Orlesian army? A paied mercenary with decades of experience?

A lot of archetype could fill that role.

I won't moan - though personally, I preferred the Hawke-style 'rise to power' type of story to the epic 'save the world even though you're technically a nobody' thing (I realise I'm probably in the minority )

 

But why would those archetypes be any better at the job than Cullen? I could argue that a retired Orlesian general would be far too invested in the political situation in Orlais to be of any use outside of that, that his advice could be extremely partisan within the Orlesian situation, depending on his allegiances, or that he'd be too old and worn out to be of any physical use to the Inquisition at all. A mercenary, with no loyalty to anything aside from the contents of his own pockets, has no vested interest at all in restoring order, chaos works for him because it means more employment. Also, how would such an individual have any more experience than Cullen at commanding a massive army? Basically, there can be arguments for and against any character who fills Cullen's role, just as there are arguments for and against Cullen himself.

[J-Reyno]

An old general retired from age of the Orlesian army? A paied mercenary with decades of experience?

A lot of archetype could fill that role.

I think you missed the point of my response.  You're assuming that Cassandra or Leliana would have someone like this available at the snap of their fingers?  That these people exist in the first place?  That they would be interested in joining some volunteer organization with no backing of prominence?

 

No, it sounds like you want the writers to just make these characters up because of your own preference.  No concern for how probable it would be that they could rope someone like this.  It's not about filling an archetype, or the writers filling this role with what you want.  That has nothing to do with the reasons why Cullen would have been chosen by the other characters as a military advisor.  It also has nothing to do with the story BW is telling.  It sounds as if you have zero concern for the story itself, and are only concerned about a character you don't like.  It's fine for you to have the opinion that you don't want Cullen in the game, but that is totally besides the debate about his experience, which I reiterate is more than enough in a situation where there probably aren't any better options.

 

And your complaint is a lot like people who say that George Martin should have allowed Robb to live and made him King in ASOIAF.  You're just trying to tell someone how to write their own story.  =/

[Chewin]

Decades? Plural? That is a lot. Few will live long enough to get that much experience, and for the ones who do.. how many will want to join a kickstarter organization that isn't guaranteed to succeed? They would have to be interested in the purpose and feel that it is a worthwhile effort. They'd also have to just feel like doing it, and if they are, feel like it's worth leaving their current position. The Inquisition is not the (former) Chantry, they do not yet have much influence. That's something we have to work on throughout the game. What you think is necessary would leave a decidedly few number, each of which would be incredibly hard to get.

Cullen has a desire to help and aid. He has experience (whether you feel it's enough or not) and he's willing to put that to the test. He may very well be the absolute best option that we have.

Don't let Cassandra and Leliana fool you. We are very lucky to have them. The rest are volunteers that want to make the world a better place, and we have to start somewhere.

You seem to forget what the Inquisition stands for, and anyone capable and in their right mind that sees they can fill in the role that the Inquisition needs would aid in their goal.

Regarding experience on the field, the point is that this kind of work requires extensive military experience with distinction along with completion of a training course that provides information about how to provide advice to allies while often considering issues like cultural differences and limited funds for training and other operations. The issue lies in if Cullen has gained this experience and in what field exactly he will utilize it in, is it simply to improve training conditions in the organization or to (as well) take part in planning and startegy phases.

No, you don't need decades of experience to become a military advisor. If someone has combat experience, e.g. leading troops into battle, have excelled in combat arms, proven to be a proficient soldier, capable of making the proper military decisions and of educating and training foreign military members, one can become a military advisor in a relatively short notice, depending on events and situations. Considering the situations we find ourselves in DAI and the amount of time that has been since DA2, it is perfectly possible Cullen is the right man for the job. As long as BW actually showcases how he rose to this position, then there shouldn't be a problem.

[In Exile]

An old general retired from age of the Orlesian army? A paied mercenary with decades of experience?

A lot of archetype could fill that role.

 

Why would an old crank add any value at all? Why would a mercenary know anything about commanding armies? How would Cassandra find these people? Open up google and search "mercenary with decades of experienced willing to work for free" or open up wikipedia and look up "famous Orlesian generals not yet soiling themselves"? 

[J-Reyno]

You seem to forget what the Inquisition stands for, and anyone capable and in their right mind that sees they can fill in the role that the Inquisition needs would aid in their goal.

Regarding experience on the field, the point is that this kind of work requires extensive military experience with distinction along with completion of a training course that provides information about how to provide advice to allies while often considering issues like cultural differences and limited funds for training and other operations. The issue lies in if Cullen has gained this experience and in what field exactly he will utilize it in, is it simply to improve training conditions in the organization or to (as well) take part in planning and startegy phases.

No, you don't need decades of experience to become a military advisor. If someone has combat experience, e.g. leading troops into battle, have excelled in combat arms, proven to be a proficient soldier, capable of making the proper military decisions and of educating and training foreign military members, one can become a military advisor in a relatively short notice, depending on events and situations. Considering the situations we find ourselves in DAI and the amount of time that has been since DA2, it is perfectly possible Cullen is the right man for the job. As long as BW actually showcases how he rose to this position, then there shouldn't be a problem.

I haven't forgotten, but I'm pretty sure the Inquisition is not so influential that everyone of note is going to flock to the cause.  Even if people believe in the cause, what will convince them that this particular group is going to be capable?  Is it possible that other groups have tried and failed to combat the situation?  And of those that join how many are really going to be these supposed experts?  I'd assume that many will be off somewhere else being paid quite handsomely to do what they're so good at.  Leaving your post to join the Inquisition is not going to be appealing, even moreso if there are still other troubles going on in the world that require them to stay where they are.  

 

Cullen, even as of DA2, has qualifications.  You don't have to be top dawg to gain leadership experience.  He's clearly a capable soldier and has been in command.  Some have command but it's little more than a title, but we know that's not the case with Cullen.  He's proven his ability to survive and prosper in devastating situations much worse than what many could even imagine.  And we know that he proves himself even more after the events of DA2 when he really does stand at the top.  I strongly believe that in this situation Cullen is more than a great candidate from who's available.  

 

I agree that it would be good to learn of what he has accomplished since DA2, but remember that I was responding to someone who states that he wouldn't have the qualifications even in this case.

[Boombox]

Do we really know that much about him and his history to judge if he's the right person or not? In regards to fighting red templars maybe he's the most qualified, after having fought Meridith and seen the effects first hand.

If story-wise Cassandra was impressed enough with his ability to deal with a crisis and recruit him than that's a good start. I'm happy to see how they handle it.

 

As for the complaints about 'fan-service' stuff, of course! It's always been the case. Zevran was one of my favourite characters but it was a joke how he just happened to pass by in DA2. Also, Sandal is the perfect example of this. He shows up in Kirkwall and by the end of the game they're travelling to Orlais? We will run into him in three different locations. To me, that's harder to get my head around than Cassandra being in Kirkwall and thinking Cullen has potential. I don't mind the fan service stuff as long as it's explained and makes sense, I don't really see a problem here.

[Zatche]

Why would an old crank add any value at all? Why would a mercenary know anything about commanding armies? How would Cassandra find these people? Open up google and search "mercenary with decades of experienced willing to work for free" or open up wikipedia and look up "famous Orlesian generals not yet soiling themselves"? 

 

This is a very good point. Cassandra chose Cullen as military adviser, because she knows Cullen. She was impressed with his handling the Kirkwall aftermath, and she knows that his goals are aligned with the Inquisition. She doesn't know as much about Gaspard, whose goals lie in winning his Civil War. She most likely knows nothing or very little about Michel. And we most likely not meet Blackwall until after the Inquisition is started.

 

Edited after reading Cullen's website description.

[Giubba]

I think you missed the point of my response. You're assuming that Cassandra or Leliana would have someone like this available at the snap of their fingers? That these people exist in the first place? That they would be interested in joining some volunteer organization with no backing of prominence?

No, it sounds like you want the writers to just make these characters up because of your own preference. No concern for how probable it would be that they could rope someone like this. It's not about filling an archetype, or the writers filling this role with what you want. That has nothing to do with the reasons why Cullen would have been chosen by the other characters as a military advisor. It also has nothing to do with the story BW is telling. It sounds as if you have zero concern for the story itself, and are only concerned about a character you don't like. It's fine for you to have the opinion that you don't want Cullen in the game, but that is totally besides the debate about his experience, which I reiterate is more than enough in a situation where there probably aren't any better options.

And your complaint is a lot like people who say that George Martin should have allowed Robb to live and made him King in ASOIAF. You're just trying to tell someone how to write their own story. =/

God yes especially Leliana she should be able to know every noteworthy person in thedas and generals included.
And why Cullen should have any better reason to join the Inquisition than any other character could have created to fill that role?

But anyway you lost me when you started to claim my hate for thr character as my reason for not see him in the role on counselor that's a completely different thing from not having him back at all which i never said it.

[In Exile]

This is a very good point. Cassandra chose Cullen as military adviser, because she knows Cullen. She was impressed with his handling the Kirkwall aftermath, and she knows that his goals are aligned with the Inquisition. She doesn't know as much about Gaspard, whose goals lie in winning his Civil War. She most likely knows nothing or very little about Michel. And we most likely not meet Blackwall until after the Inquisition is started.

 

Edited after reading Cullen's website description.

 

Exactly. In fact, picking someone like Gaspard as an example shows us just how absurd the idea of a prominent Orlesian being recruited from the start appears to be at first. 

 

Why would Gaspard even speak with Cassandra? It's not like "random scrub from a defunct order in open rebellion of the Chantry" will even be allowed within 100 feet of a contender for the Orlesian throne. What would she even say? "This random person no one ever heard of before has the mystical power to close fade tears with his hand?" It sounds absurd. 

 

The Inquisition has to actually close Fade tears first. And once it does, it's a paramilitary organization straight up occupying part of Orlais with its own agenda and not bound by loyalty to anyone. That's "threat", not "job opportunity". 

 

Plus, the idea of recruiting Orlesians ignores that being part of the military isn't a job in Thedas - it's a consequence of being a noble. 

[myahele]

He's really just fan service. Realistically, Cassandra (being the devines hand) and leader of the seekers (which is above templars) will make a better npc military advisor.

Of course, many things have happened since Kirkwall and he probably led armies to do whatever

[Giubba]

Why would an old crank add any value at all? Why would a mercenary know anything about commanding armies? How would Cassandra find these people? Open up google and search "mercenary with decades of experienced willing to work for free" or open up wikipedia and look up "famous Orlesian generals not yet soiling themselves"?

Because she is the right hand of the divine. Because the left hand is a spy master, and god forbid a spy master for being able to collect information about people who are needed for fulfilling her goal.

And Cullen bring on the table apart his popularity (still have to understand why) with the fanbase. Leliana is a spy master and the left hand of the divine, Varric is a top notch information broker with a shitload of connection in the mercantile guilds. Cullen is what? The second in command of especially brutal knight commander who turned crazy?

[The Elder King]

He's really just fan service. Realistically, Cassandra (being the devines hand) and leader of the seekers (which is above templars) will make a better npc military advisor.
Of course, many things have happened since Kirkwall and he probably led armies to do whatever

Cassandra likely has an higher rank then military advisor in the Inquisition.

[The Elder King]

Because she is the right hand of the divine. Because the left hand is a spy master, and god forbid a spy master for being able to collect information about people who are needed for fulfilling her goal.
And Cullen bring on the table apart his popularity (still have to understand why) with the fanbase. Leliana is a spy master and the left hand of the divine, Varric is a top notch information broker with a shitload of connection in the mercantile guilds. Cullen is what? The second in command of especially brutal knight commander who turned crazy?

He's someone who apparently restored order in Kirkwall with good leadership skill, which is the reason why he was recruited.
Other then that, why do you think cassandra would trust someone who's not from the Chantry?

[Zatche]

He's someone who apparently restored order in Kirkwall with good leadership skill, which is the reason why he was recruited.
Other then that, why do you think cassandra would trust someone who's not from the Chantry?

 

Precisely. Restoring order is the goal of the Inquisition, and he apparently has experience with it.

[Solas]

I would take Cullen over blackwell because I have no idea of Blackwall leadership skill in the the interview they state nothing about leading and make thinks is just a great warrior who would want the job in the first place because he would rather be making things right 

Also blackwall could be very close to his calling making his mental state just a tad bit questionable where as cullen will be good forever as long as he gets his lyrium he will be fine 

actually the older templars suffer from long-term lyrium use, their mental states are questionable

[myahele]

Wow! Had no idea he successfully restored to Kirkwall. That's quite a feat!

I am assuming the Kirwall circle is turned out to be a decent place?

[Adanu]

Precisely. Restoring order is the goal of the Inquisition, and he apparently has experience with it.

The Inquisitions goal is to stop the world from being ruined. Restoring order is one path to that.

[AllThatJazz]

God yes especially Leliana she should be able to know every noteworthy person in thedas and generals included.
And why Cullen should have any better reason to join the Inquisition than any other character could have created to fill that role?

But anyway you lost me when you started to claim my hate for thr character as my reason for not see him in the role on counselor that's a completely different thing from not having him back at all which i never said it.

Because he's loyal to the chantry (which was setting up the Inq, and large parts of which have been wiped out), he knows Cassandra (the person setting up the Inquisition), he's witnessed first-hand the excesses and abuses of both the mages and Templars so he has an interest in wanting the violence between them to stop, he was present when a major catastrophe occurred in kirkwall and apparently stepped up well in the aftermath, he has experience with fighting Templars under the influence of red lyrium, he's rubbed shoulders with some of the most notable individuals in thedas (The Warden and Hawke & co) so knows that one person can make a difference and wants to do his bit, because Fereldan is his homeland and it is in danger? You're asking questions that really only the writers can (and hopefully will) answer.

 

But to turn your question around, why should any other character have a better reason than Cullen? Why on earth would an Orlesian general, used to leading, abandon the volatile political situation in his homeland (and in which his assistance could be required at any moment) in order to play minor sidekick  to the unknown leader of some fledgling organisation he has no reason to feel any sort of affiliation with? Particularly if the Inquisitor is an elf (Orlesians generally come off as being pretty anti-elf). Why would a mercenary volunteer for such a role when he/she stands to make a fortune in all the chaos?

[Battlebloodmage]

All caught up now

 

When will people stop the notion that Cullen was added because he was popular or that people like him only because he's good-looking? If we talk about minor characters become full-companions, he wouldn't be the first one, there are also Isabela and Merill. Are they there for fan-service also? If they are, I haven't heard any complain. This game has the potential to end to mage-templar war, so someone who has seen the worst of mages and templars seem to be the most appropriate person to become the military advisor on such matters. 

[Zatche]

Because she is the right hand of the divine. Because the left hand is a spy master, and god forbid a spy master for being able to collect information about people who are needed for fulfilling her goal.

 

I don't believe we have time for a long drawn out vetting process. Leliana may be a great spymater, but we don't have the internet or telephones. Information rides on horseback. The veil tears are opening now, so the Inquisition needs to start now, and it needs to work with what it has. Cullen is right there.

[Mr.House]

Because she is the right hand of the divine. Because the left hand is a spy master, and god forbid a spy master for being able to collect information about people who are needed for fulfilling her goal.

And Cullen bring on the table apart his popularity (still have to understand why) with the fanbase. Leliana is a spy master and the left hand of the divine, Varric is a top notch information broker with a shitload of connection in the mercantile guilds. Cullen is what? The second in command of especially brutal knight commander who turned crazy?

Cullen saw the worse of both factions(Uldred and Merdith) he was knight captain for 6 years and was possible knight commander after for around three years and he was one of the few to restore order to Kirkwall, but hey if you and others just want to think FAN SERVICE be my guest.

[Giubba]

Because he's loyal to the chantry (which was setting up the Inq, and large parts of which have been wiped out), he knows Cassandra (the person setting up the Inquisition), he's witnessed first-hand the excesses and abuses of both the mages and Templars so he has an interest in wanting the violence between them to stop, he was present when a major catastrophe occurred in kirkwall and apparently stepped up well in the aftermath, he has experience with fighting Templars under the influence of red lyrium, he's rubbed shoulders with some of the most notable individuals in thedas (The Warden and Hawke & co) so knows that one person can make a difference and wants to do his bit, because Fereldan is his homeland and it is in danger? You're asking questions that really only the writers can (and hopefully will) answer.

But to turn your question around, why should any other character have a better reason than Cullen? Why on earth would an Orlesian general, used to leading, abandon the volatile political situation in his homeland (and in which his assistance could be required at any moment) in order to play minor sidekick to the unknown leader of some fledgling organisation he has no reason to feel any sort of affiliation with? Particularly if the Inquisitor is an elf (Orlesians generally come off as being pretty anti-elf). Why would a mercenary volunteer for such a role when he/she stands to make a fortune in all the chaos?

Because he grow disgusted with the endless machinations of the orlisian politics.

Face it bioware could have created dozen of characters that could have filled that role without any problem. I have nothing against returning characters (actually i wholeheartedly approve the concept) but i agree with the user who quoted zevran cameo as being fanservice only.

[In Exile]

Because she is the right hand of the divine. Because the left hand is a spy master, and god forbid a spy master for being able to collect information about people who are needed for fulfilling her goal.

 

You obviously don't understand how spying works. It's not a thing you do in 3 days like a google search. Given months. Leliana could probably identify someone competent that isn't killed by the growing apocalypse. It's not like Leliana's previous job as bard was "locate old military leaders willing to work for a new organization in case a demon apocalypse happens". 

 

As for what the Chantry can actually do... well, we see what it does. Cassandra recruits the most capable devout Andrastian still available to the fractured Chantry after their military branch revolts: Cullen. 

 

So the Right Hand of the Divine uses her title just fine - you just hate the choice, because you somehow think the ... rest of Thedas is beholden to the Chantry? 

[Chewin]

I haven't forgotten, but I'm pretty sure the Inquisition is not so influential that everyone of note is going to flock to the cause.  Even if people believe in the cause, what will convince them that this particular group is going to be capable?  Is it possible that other groups have tried and failed to combat the situation?  And of those that join how many are really going to be these supposed experts?  I'd assume that many will be off somewhere else being paid quite handsomely to do what they're so good at.  Leaving your post to join the Inquisition is not going to be appealing, even moreso if there are still other troubles going on in the world that require them to stay where they are.

Valid points, but this would be us grasping at straws and speculating to fit into our defined pictures. At this point anything is possible, it is up to what BW sees the need for the story to go to fit into the narrative.
 

Cullen, even as of DA2, has qualifications.  You don't have to be top dawg to gain leadership experience.  He's clearly a capable soldier and has been in command.  Some have command but it's little more than a title, but we know that's not the case with Cullen.  He's proven his ability to survive and prosper in devastating situations much worse than what many could even imagine.  And we know that he proves himself even more after the events of DA2 when he really does stand at the top.  I strongly believe that in this situation Cullen is more than a great candidate from who's available.  

Certainly he does have qualifications, he has experience as a templar and a soldier respectively and has handled both mages and templars directly and indirectly and has seen perspectives on both sides. However I am arguing that we haven't seen anything really substantial to grant him a military advisor position for him and have only touched on his possible potential for the role.
 

I agree that it would be good to learn of what he has accomplished since DA2, but remember that I was responding to someone who states that he wouldn't have the qualifications even in this case.

I am aware, and I was just generally clearing it up, not directing it to you.

[In Exile]

Because he grow disgusted with the endless machinations of the orlisian politics.

Face it bioware could have created dozen of characters that could have filled that role without any problem. I have nothing against returning characters (actually i wholeheartedly approve the concept) but i agree with the user who quoted zevran cameo as being fanservice only.

So an Orlesian noble, who could only ever acquire that status and power by being a deft political operator, decides he's tired of a system he (or she) mastered and exploited to great personal gain, at a time when Orlais is so fractured that he or she could triple power and standing by picking the right side in the conflict?