756 réponses à ce sujet

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

I'll buy Option 'C' for $1000, Alex.

 

LAWL. I laughed far too hard at this! 

 

Sorry, I have no LIKES. I won't name any names but someone else on this thread ate them all 

 

So LIKE!

[NoForgiveness]

So... what is it you want from Cullen, exactly? Legitimate question, I don't mean to sound snarky or anything, but you don't want him to lead, you don't want his advice, do you just not want him to be around at all?

 

I do want to see his character development, with the stuff I've seen... im interested, even though I hate his guts still at this point. But If he really is doubting his past in dai, i think hell lack the confidence that a leader should have. Plus i can look at blackwall and see someone that has led grey wardens for at least 10 years, that is a far better resume for a leader. Especially since Cullen shows nothing in either game that makes him a particularly good leader. And his advice hasn't even been reasonable up until this thing with the 3 mages.
 

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

Oh yeah.... about your gerbil.... real sorry... but it was just so small and I didn't see it in time... now my butt impression is all out of whack. It's wheel is fun though 

 

Yeah I can see him pulling my Inquisitor inline when needed. He seems to be a really straight forward guy that believes in doing the right thing. He can't of not learnt his lesson about not stepping in if it is needs to be done. I doubt he would ever lie or say something because it is what the Inquisitor wants to hear. He is honest and trustworthy, all attributes that are needed with a Military Adviser or we would have another Loghain on our hands. 

O.O But gerbil...make brain.. do... stuff. Run..faster...on wheel

 

Lawd, the people advocating for Loghain as the adviser over Cullen make my face do sad things. It's like they forgot he totally abandoned his King and countless others to death because he thought he knew better. He just about doomed everyone to the Blight and they still want him giving advise. Um... nah y'all. Loghain be fifty shades of dead in all my playthroughs *snap* I can't kill him fast enough. Treacherous d-bag. Like he wouldn't do the same thing to the Inquisitor. Be all "I gots more experience. I should be in charge. This foo' don't know what he/she be doin'." *stabbity stab stab Quizzy* "What what! Loghain running the show now!"

[BabyFratelli]

I do want to see his character development, with the stuff I've seen... im interested, even though I hate his guts still at this point. But If he really is doubting his past in dai, i think hell lack the confidence that a leader should have. Plus i can look at blackwall and see someone that has led grey wardens for at least 10 years, that is a far better resume for a leader. Especially since Cullen shows nothing in either game that makes him a particularly good leader. And his advice hasn't even been reasonable up until this thing with the 3 mages.
 

I might have missed something, but I don't think I've seen anywhere that Blackwall led any Grey Wardens, but besides that, all your complaints are things we can't possibly know until the game comes out or we get Cullen's writer really, really, inebriated, so I'm out. No point arguing over something that's an opinion. 

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

I do want to see his character development, with the stuff I've seen... im interested, even though I hate his guts still at this point. But If he really is doubting his past in dai, i think hell lack the confidence that a leader should have. Plus i can look at blackwall and see someone that has led grey wardens for at least 10 years, that is a far better resume for a leader. Especially since Cullen shows nothing in either game that makes him a particularly good leader. And his advice hasn't even been reasonable up until this thing with the 3 mages.
 

As far as the Blackwall bit of this. You do realize that Grey Wardens have a whole "Only Darkspawn are our problem. We can't get involved in anything else." philosophy and at about the 10 year mark he is about one foot in the grave? Just throwing that out there. Now, does that mean he shares that philosophy? Nope. Just like lumping poor Cullen in with all the craptastic Templars we have met, is premature. I think the subtle leadership bits have been overlooked because of the whole player choice aspect of the games, but I really, really want to stress how utterly unnecessary the dialogue with Cullen is with the Mages and his ordering the Templars is if it is not in some way meant to show that he is respected by the other Templars and they trust his judgement over their Knight-Commander. If that doesn't say, leader in the making, I honestly have no idea what would.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

O.O But gerbil...make brain.. do... stuff. Run..faster...on wheel

 

Lawd, the people advocating for Loghain as the adviser over Cullen make my face do sad things. It's like they forgot he totally abandoned his King and countless others to death because he thought he knew better. He just about doomed everyone to the Blight and they still want him giving advise. Um... nah y'all. Loghain be fifty shades of dead in all my playthroughs *snap* I can't kill him fast enough. Treacherous d-bag. Like he wouldn't do the same thing to the Inquisitor. Be all "I gots more experience. I should be in charge. This foo' don't know what he/she be doin'." *stabbity stab stab Quizzy* "What what! Loghain running the show now!"

 

OH MY GOD! LOL ribs hurt. I couldn't agree more! Damn it, I have to go to a family dinner. I'm actually really enjoying this thread and the diverse opinions being thrown around. I don't want to leave! Hold the fort while I'm gone 

[NoForgiveness]

I might have missed something, but I don't think I've seen anywhere that Blackwall led any Grey Wardens, but besides that, all your complaints are things we can't possibly know until the game comes out or we get Cullen's writer really, really, inebriated.

 

Its a letter somewhere... its written by blackwall in 9:30 and talks about how they cant go into Ferelden and then is signed as like warden constable, which i assume is a semi high rank. By this point he could be warden commander of Orlais though.

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

OH MY GOD! LOL ribs hurt. I couldn't agree more! Damn it, I have to go to a family dinner. I'm actually really enjoying this thread and the diverse opinions being thrown around. I don't want to leave! Hold the fort while I'm gone 

*salute* Aye aye! Will try and keep everything from getting all 'splosy while you nom. Eat something yummy for me!

[SamaraDraven]

I do want to see his character development, with the stuff I've seen... im interested, even though I hate his guts still at this point. But If he really is doubting his past in dai, i think hell lack the confidence that a leader should have. Plus i can look at blackwall and see someone that has led grey wardens for at least 10 years, that is a far better resume for a leader. Especially since Cullen shows nothing in either game that makes him a particularly good leader. And his advice hasn't even been reasonable up until this thing with the 3 mages.
 

 

His advice hasn't been reasonable as you see fit, as you believe it should be. This is why the games have the mechanic for player agency - so that we can make the decisions WE feel are right. Cullen's advice may not have conformed to your ideals, but he does still have experience in leading men into battle, fighting abominations and knows templar tactics firsthand. His experience in the capacity you don't like, the capacity of templar, doesn't invalidate that experience. In DAO, if you annul the Circle, it's the Templars' help you receive to battle the Blight. I did this in a playthrough by accident because I forgot the Litany of Adralla but I didn't go back and fix it because I was doing a raw play through. The templars were better at fighting the darkspawn emissaries in the end. Cullen would be among the knights to respond, even if the game doesn't show him. That he gets over his temporary, trauma induced mania and returns to being a man who doesn't want to kill all mages but neither does he support their total freedom and has experience fighting demons and knows templar abilities and can assist against Lambert and his clone army, makes him a logical candidate for the Divine, who doesn't want the red templars to continue their rampage but also can't reconcile giving the mages complete autonomy. It's possible that while the Inquisition is dealing with The Breach, the groundwork can be laid for a better system between the mages and templars. Cullen has been in the midst of it all thus far. His experience may not be exactly as you think it should be according to ordinary norms but the foes they're up against in DA:I aren't foes of ordinary norms.

[NoForgiveness]

His advice hasn't been reasonable as you see fit, as you believe it should be. This is why the games have the mechanic for player agency - so that we can make the decisions WE feel are right. Cullen's advice may not have conformed to your ideals, but he does still have experience in leading men into battle, fighting abominations and knows templar tactics firsthand. His experience in the capacity you don't like, the capacity of templar, doesn't invalidate that experience. In DAO, if you annul the Circle, it's the Templars' help you receive to battle the Blight. I did this in a playthrough by accident because I forgot the Litany of Adralla but I didn't go back and fix it because I was doing a raw play through. The templars were better at fighting the darkspawn emissaries in the end. Cullen would be among the knights to respond, even if the game doesn't show him. That he gets over his temporary, trauma induced mania and returns to being a man who doesn't want to kill all mages but neither does he support their total freedom and has experience fighting demons and knows templar abilities and can assist against Lambert and his clone army, makes him a logical candidate for the Divine, who doesn't want the red templars to continue their rampage but also can't reconcile giving the mages complete autonomy. It's possible that while the Inquisition is dealing with The Breach, the groundwork can be laid for a better system between the mages and templars. Cullen has been in the midst of it all thus far. His experience may not be exactly as you think it should be according to ordinary norms but the foes they're up against in DA:I aren't foes of ordinary norms.

 

/sigh.. i wasn't trying to start another argument. i was just answering a question. And no i really cant see how slaughtering bunch of mages is reasonable when i have a book that prevents blood magic. Killing them is nuts and Cullen advocates for it because he is broken at that point. Even Greagor understands that there was a way to save them(and he wanted to). And Cullen just starts to improve from that in act 3. There's no telling if he actually does in dai or not.

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

/sigh.. i wasn't trying to start another argument. i was just answering a question. And no i really cant see how slaughtering bunch of mages is reasonable when i have a book that prevents blood magic. Killing them is nuts and Cullen advocates for it because he is broken at that point. Even Greagor understands that there was a way to save them(and he wanted to). And Cullen just starts to improve from that in act 3. There's no telling if he actually does in dai or not.

No ones arguing. Right folks? We're just debating. All nice, wholesome debating among friends. Let's bring it in. *hug it out*

 

It is possible Cullen isn't aware of the Litany of Adralla. He is a newer recruit I think. But let's say he does. Now, while his opinion of Kill them all to be safe is wrong, it is somewhat understandable since the events are very fresh in his mind. He is scared and angry. I probably would have been thinking the same thing if I went through what he did. I'm not just going to take a mage's word that everything is all good now. Remember, he was always nice to the mages. He isn't aware of anything untoward. Part of his sweet boy naivete I mentioned before. However, he learns from this as evident in Act III. I am not sure and I have been trying to find out since it was brought up that SamaraDraven didn't use the Litany and had to Annul the circle, whether or not all the mages were indeed killed and/or if Cullen's dialogue is different as far as sparing the mages goes in Act III. Unfortunately I cannot find that so if anyone can, please let me know. I am interested to see if there was a difference there or if he really had learned from past mistakes and that him finally stepping up to do the right thing was beginning to kick in.

[Nyeredzi]

Cullen's theme

[SamaraDraven]

/sigh.. i wasn't trying to start another argument. i was just answering a question. And no i really cant see how slaughtering bunch of mages is reasonable when i have a book that prevents blood magic. Killing them is nuts and Cullen advocates for it because he is broken at that point. Even Greagor understands that there was a way to save them(and he wanted to). And Cullen just starts to improve from that in act 3. There's no telling if he actually does in dai or not.

 

It's not my intent to start an argument either. I was replying to your opinion that Cullen doesn't have the kind of experience you think one should have for the situation in DA:I. I disagree. Invalidating all of his experience as useful because he had an (arguably understandable) compromised point of view immediately following a very traumatic event because you found it irrational is kind of like throwing out the baby with the bath water. He wasn't rational at the end of DAO, I agree and I'm glad he wasn't left with the decision of what to do with the mages in Broken Circle. It would have haunted him the rest of his days when he was saner. But what if he had been right...? That's a different argument however. 

 

In the beginning of DA2, he has a less dramatic knee-jerk reaction, though he is still only a few months from what happened in DAO so he's still a jerk about mages, though he no longer calls for their extinction. By the end of DAII returns closer to a more middle ground opinion like what he held in the beginning of DAO but is less naive than he was in DAO about it. He evolves to this throughout the game but it can only be demonstrated in dialogue since there wasn't much time and taking away player agency to further Cullen's story wouldn't have made sense - especially considering he was a minor NPC the devs were reprising at the time. I get that you don't like him for how he has handled his situations in the past. I disagree that his emotional fallout indicates he has no experience or would make poor choices now that he's learning to stand on his own. How well would anyone hold up under what he's been through? He's human and imperfect which makes for good story-telling and he has experience in some of the kind of matters that Thedas is facing in DA:I. I don't see how there could be anyone better suited than him. A blank slate/new guy could have been created, that's true but I for one like the connection of seeing familiar faces when it makes sense. And I think Cullen makes sense. If he didn't I wouldn't want him.

 

And there is no book that prevents blood magic as far as I know. According to DA lore, there's no way to tell who is a blood mage and who isn't, who's an abomination and who isn't. the Litany is a mantra that breaks a blood mage's control of others and it must be ongoing to work.

[NoForgiveness]

No ones arguing. Right folks? We're just debating. All nice, wholesome debating among friends. Let's bring it in. *hug it out*

 

It is possible Cullen isn't aware of the Litany of Adralla. He is a newer recruit I think. But let's say he does. Now, while his opinion of Kill them all to be safe is wrong, it is somewhat understandable since the events are very fresh in his mind. He is scared and angry. I probably would have been thinking the same thing if I went through what he did. I'm not just going to take a mage's word that everything is all good now. Remember, he was always nice to the mages. He isn't aware of anything untoward. Part of his sweet boy naivete I mentioned before. However, he learns from this as evident in Act III. I am not sure and I have been trying to find out since it was brought up that SamaraDraven didn't use the Litany and had to Annul the circle, whether or not all the mages were indeed killed and/or if Cullen's dialogue is different as far as sparing the mages goes in Act III. Unfortunately I cannot find that so if anyone can, please let me know. I am interested to see if there was a difference there or if he really had learned from past mistakes and that him finally stepping up to do the right thing was beginning to kick in.

 

Id say it goes well beyond scared and angry. He is broken. He needs help, not to be thrown to a KC who will only encourage those thoughts. I am hoping that he's over that for the most part in dai(and from the sounds of it. he is), but just knowing that past would be reason enough for me to not recruit him.

 

 

 

 

/sigh.... *hug*
 

[Vilegrim]

The interview stated he leads the soldiers of the Inquisition.

 

 

Oh hell no, that cowardly murderer is getting no power, no salvation, and no forgiveness from me.

[Vilegrim]

So... what is it you want from Cullen, exactly? Legitimate question, I don't mean to sound snarky or anything, but you don't want him to lead, you don't want his advice, do you just not want him to be around at all?

 

 

I want him to hang for all the murders, rapes and rites of tranquility he was accomplice to.

[mordy_was_here]

Yeah... I'm out.

[leaguer of one]

Oh hell no, that cowardly murderer is getting no power, no salvation, and no forgiveness from me.

Side with the Templers. Then say that.

[leaguer of one]

I want him to hang for all the murders, rapes and rites of tranquility he was accomplice to.

....Wat.

 

He was part of none of that.

[Mister Sunshine]

I want him to hang for all the murders, rapes and rites of tranquility he was accomplice to.

Do you blame Irving or Orsino for every mage that was in their Circle that used magic to hurt others?

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

Id say it goes well beyond scared and angry. He is broken. He needs help, not to be thrown to a KC who will only encourage those thoughts. I am hoping that he's over that for the most part in dai(and from the sounds of it. he is), but just knowing that past would be reason enough for me to not recruit him.

 

 

 

 

/sigh.... *hug*
 

I think Gregoir sent him to Kirkwall to help him actually. The Circle in Ferelden being too much because yes, he was broken. I don't think anyone realized how bad Meredith was so there is another point for him in my opinion. He had the worst possible role models in Kirkwall. He could have become the cruelest man in the Templar order when you take his experience and add it to that hot mess in Kirkwall. But he doesn't. Sure he starts off kind of cold, but he is far from cruel. He actually keeps a small grip on the boy he was, that belief in doing the right thing. He just doesn't trust his own judgement anymore and says as much in Act III. That he swore he would never question the order again, but he ends up doing just that. Look at the difference in him just from him during Enemies Among Us. How he would "give his life" to prevent something like the Broken Circle from happening again to how in Act III and him taking a chance on trusting these mages. Act I is a year after the Broken Circle at most... six years later and he has grown. I see no reason that the growth wouldn't have continued.

 

*hugs back* see all friends.

[NoForgiveness]

....Wat.

 

He was part of none of that.

 

Says who? Thrasks group of mages, when Cullen see them he immediately orders them tortured and interrogated. He was giving his own recruit quite a beating in his own interrogation too. Theres got to be plenty of other stuff too. He didn't get to knight captain by being gentle, in fact he got there by being every bit as ruthless as Meredith. 
 

[leaguer of one]

Do you blame Irving or Orsino for every mage that was in their Circle that used magic to hurt others?

Well... Orsino did keep his mouth shut about this particulater mage....

Spoiler

[

[Vilegrim]

Do you blame Irving or Orsino for every mage that was in their Circle that used magic to hurt others?

 

I blame Orsino for not stopping the blood mages he knew about.

 

I blame Cullen for not stopping the Rites of Tranquility, for following orders during Merediths madness.  'Just Following Orders' has NEVER been a defence.

[The Elder King]

Incorrect. The Champion chose live or die, not Cullen. Why would he listen to an outsider who is not a Templar. All Hawke was doing was helping the Templars. If he has to have someone from the outside tell him to save or let the mages be killed, then how is he going to make any decision on his own in the future?

  

How would he upstage Hawke in that one scene?  All that needed to be done is have Hawke continue towards Orsino and then show Cullen either sparing the mages or killing them.

  
Other then problem of player agency, keep in mind that at the time he was still a subordinate of Meredith, and Hawke is the Champion, not a random fellow.

Oh hell no, that cowardly murderer is getting no power, no salvation, and no forgiveness from me.

You're probably out of luck.