756 réponses à ce sujet

[RGC_Ines]

this is what i am and others are talking about too

 

i find this not making sense that our advisors and companions are lelianna and Cullen with Cassandra who are not a neutral peoples and from Orlais Chantry and Orlais factions...the same Blackwall  as Grey Warden Constable would be much better candidate for military adviser

 

and for spy stuff i would prefer other person not a Leliana who was a bard and Chantry spy

I agree with You here. While I will play as a Dalish Elf and I don't plan to support Chantry ( BioWare said I will not have to),  I think there's too much pro Chantry ppl  with very important role to play this way.

Firts we have pro Chantry, mage hater Military Adviser who have a big influence on my troops, second there is spy Adviser (while I asume spying is important things for military/political decision). Next we have at last one pro Chantry companion with important role-Cassandra. Don't know about Scribe girl ( she will be important for  Inquisitions economy probably?), but if she is also pro Chantry then I can't imagine my game.

[Giubba]

I never sided with the Templars so can you please let me know where it says he killed these mages? The one video I found referring to 3 mages, I posted earlier and he advocates sparing their lives not killing them.

 

http://dragonage.wik...-Captain_Cullen I can't find it here.

 

*Edited to include DA2 Codex entry*

 

If the Warden was a mage and did not side with Cullen, and gives the tower autonomy, the templar endures festering mental scars from his experience in the tower. This leads to an eventual mental breakdown during which he kills three mage apprentices before fleeing. These rumors are revealed to be fiction in Dragon Age II.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Cullen

 

Open the origin section.

[obsessedwjpn]

I don't really understand how everyone can be so worked up about this when we barely know much at all yet how things will work out. If you are really concerned why don't you wait until the game comes out and look at reviews and other people's opinions of it?

 

Just because Cullen, Leliana, Cassandra and whoever else is associated originally with the Chantry doesn't mean it will COLOR all of their decisions absolutely. Nothing in life or the DA games is black and white. There are a lot of gray areas where one's faith or beliefs are tested. I believe Cullen, Leliana and Cassandra have all seen a lot of crap from both sides of the fence, i.e. Templar vs Mage, and are going to give their advice and help with a level head. Of course they will still have their own thoughts on things but I doubt it will hinder the Inquisition majorly. Plus, I personally believe in seeing to some kind of compromise between templars, mages, the chantry, etc. No one side is absolutely right or wrong.

 

Let's just see how the game handles it. I don't believe Bioware will create advisers and companions who will beat us over the head with DO THIS DO THIS OR ELSE?! I do think there will be moments where the advisers may want one way over another and we will have to reconcile with them if our opinion differs some but I don't think that the Inquisition will some how stop working properly or the advisers will steal the reins from you on controlling things.

 

Plus, I think it is good to see all sides to an argument. We need some Chantry-related folk in the group just as we need Iron Bull, a Tevinter magister, a friend of Red Jenny, etc. We will see many different sides from all the characters.

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

If the Warden was a mage and did not side with Cullen, and gives the tower autonomy, the templar endures festering mental scars from his experience in the tower. This leads to an eventual mental breakdown during which he kills three mage apprentices before fleeing. These rumors are revealed to be fiction in Dragon Age II.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Cullen

 

Open the origin section.

That's what I was saying. That the bit about the mages being killed was a "rumor". The other poster said in DA2 it says he did kill 3 mages and I asked where. I used the wiki to show I couldn't find it there for DA2 as being truth.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

If the Warden was a mage and did not side with Cullen, and gives the tower autonomy, the templar endures festering mental scars from his experience in the tower. This leads to an eventual mental breakdown during which he kills three mage apprentices before fleeing. These rumors are revealed to be fiction in Dragon Age II.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Cullen

 

Open the origin section.

 

I wonder if that's why Cullen never got a mention in any of my epilogue's, because I never granted the tower autonomy.

[RGC_Ines]

I don't really understand how everyone can be so worked up about this when we barely know much at all yet how things will work out. If you are really concerned why don't you wait until the game comes out and look at reviews and other people's opinions of it?

 

Just because Cullen, Leliana, Cassandra and whoever else is associated originally with the Chantry doesn't mean it will COLOR all of their decisions absolutely. Nothing in life or the DA games is black and white. There are a lot of gray areas where one's faith or beliefs are tested. I believe Cullen, Leliana and Cassandra have all seen a lot of crap from both sides of the fence, i.e. Templar vs Mage, and are going to give their advice and help with a level head. Of course they will still have their own thoughts on things but I doubt it will hinder the Inquisition majorly. Plus, I personally believe in seeing to some kind of compromise between templars, mages, the chantry, etc. No one side is absolutely right or wrong.

 

Let's just see how the game handles it. I don't believe Bioware will create advisers and companions who will beat us over the head with DO THIS DO THIS OR ELSE?! I do think there will be moments where the advisers may want one way over another and we will have to reconcile with them if our opinion differs some but I don't think that the Inquisition will some how stop working properly or the advisers will steal the reins from you on controlling things.

 

Plus, I think it is good to see all sides to an argument. We need some Chantry-related folk in the group just as we need Iron Bull, a Tevinter magister, a friend of Red Jenny, etc. We will see many different sides from all the characters.

First I agree that we should wait and see, but still both sides ( pro and anti certain things) have right to discuss don't You think?

The second thing is that right now, before game relase i know Cullen, Cassandra and Leliana only from two previous games and I can't assume that they will different in DAI ( again wait and see). So right now I have right to be affraid, that they didn't change, that too many power is in wrong hands, and that there will be difficult to play game my way becouse of that.  

[Inprea]

I just wonder how someone that believes mages are weapons that can't be treated like regular people is going to be able to function with a qunari mage inquisitor that believes in greater freedom for mages and would choose to kill a thousand templars over being locked up in the circle.

[Asdrubael Vect]

I just wonder how someone that believes mages are weapons that can't be treated like regular people is going to be able to function with a qunari mage inquisitor that believes in greater freedom for mages and would choose to kill a thousand templars over being locked up in the circle.

wait when you inquisitor start to fight against Orlais Chantry-Templars with Orlais empire and recruit mages and non-andrastians-"heretics" like Dalish and city elfs in his Inquisition

 

srly i do not understand how Cassandra and Cullen with Lelianna can be ok with all what we will do, even have Qunari, someone like Dorian, Solas and deamon in our ranks

[Momiji.mii]

I'm really happy to see Cullen in a prominent role in DAI, and I think that his personal history makes him an excellent choice. And I'm not even a Cullenite, just really intrigued by his character arc so far. 

 

I know this isn't the sole reason for some players disliking Cullen, but it's getting tiring to see guys harping about his inclusion being fanservice, etc. Cullen is interesting and had a complex multi-game character arc on par with characters like Isabela, Anders and Leliana, that's why he's being included. There's also the added value of him having personally experienced the worst of both sides of the mages/templar conflict that's currently boiling in Thedas. 

 

As people have pointed out in several threads, the timeline shows us that the templar war has been going on for 3-4 years at the time of the peace talks. During this time, Cullen has presumably been trying to keep order in the melting pot that is Kirkwall after the destruction of the Chantry and the following circle rebellion. Adding what happened in Asunder a couple of years later into the mix, and it's really not that hard to see why Cullen would be an interesting character to explore in DAI. What other templar have we met previously who could bring the same complex narrative to the mix? Cassandra's choice to bring him into the Inquisition seems more than reasonable to me. 

 

Having a character whose opinons or previous actions you abhor in the game is nothing new. I absolutely hated what Loghain did in DAO, especially towards the elves and how he sacrificed King Cailan, but I still enjoyed making him a grey warden and see him work to redeem his previous actions. It made him more interesting and complex as a character and I was pleasantly surprised to see his cameo in Awakening. Reading The Stolen Throne and The Calling later made me sympathetic to his paranoia towards Orlais, and eventually I even sort of came to understand his disappointment in Cailan, the son of Maric whom he was so devoted to. 

 

So if a player like me can reverse my opinion of Loghain, is it really so impossible for others to reverse or at least enjoy the appearance of Cullen in DAI? He might even end up as your new favourite character. You can't know that before you play the actual game. 

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

I just wonder how someone that believes mages are weapons that can't be treated like regular people is going to be able to function with a qunari mage inquisitor that believes in greater freedom for mages and would choose to kill a thousand templars over being locked up in the circle.

 

This is not how he felt by the end of DA:2 at all.

 

Spoiler

 

 

He was asked his opinion and he wanted to save the Mage's,not condemn them when there was a chance that they could be innocent of what Meredith was accusing them of. 

 

[Asdrubael Vect]

This is not how he felt by the end of DA:2 at all.

 

Spoiler

 

 

He was asked his opinion and he wanted to save the Mage's,not condemn them when there was a chance that they could be innocent of what Meredith was accusing them of. 

 

yeah Cullen is a "good person" to listen hawke who order to not execute(but to tranquil) 3 mages who beg for mercy after then he with Mederith without any rights to do, massacre hundreds of innocent mages for actions of 1 apostage grey warden who was not from Kirkwall  and Chantry Cirlce and Meredith with Templars know that it was his fault

[RGC_Ines]

I'm really happy to see Cullen in a prominent role in DAI, and I think that his personal history makes him an excellent choice. And I'm not even a Cullenite, just really intrigued by his character arc so far. 

 

I know this isn't the sole reason for some players disliking Cullen, but it's getting tiring to see guys harping about his inclusion being fanservice, etc. Cullen is interesting and had a complex multi-game character arc on par with characters like Isabela, Anders and Leliana, that's why he's being included. There's also the added value of him having personally experienced the worst of both sides of the mages/templar conflict that's currently boiling in Thedas. 

 

As people have pointed out in several threads, the timeline shows us that the templar war has been going on for 3-4 years at the time of the peace talks. During this time, Cullen has presumably been trying to keep order in the melting pot that is Kirkwall after the destruction of the Chantry and the following circle rebellion. Adding what happened in Asunder a couple of years later into the mix, and it's really not that hard to see why Cullen would be an interesting character to explore in DAI. What other templar have we met previously who could bring the same complex narrative to the mix? Cassandra's choice to bring him into the Inquisition seems more than reasonable to me. 

 

Having a character whose opinons or previous actions you abhor in the game is nothing new. I absolutely hated what Loghain did in DAO, especially towards the elves and how he sacrificed King Cailan, but I still enjoyed making him a grey warden and see him work to redeem his previous actions. It made him more interesting and complex as a character and I was pleasantly surprised to see his cameo in Awakening. Reading The Stolen Throne and The Calling later made me sympathetic to his paranoia towards Orlais, and eventually I even sort of came to understand his disappointment in Cailan, the son of Maric whom he was so devoted to. 

 

So if a player like me can reverse my opinion of Loghain, is it really so impossible for others to reverse or at least enjoy the appearance of Cullen in DAI? He might even end up as your new favourite character. You can't know that before you play the actual game. 

Im curious, why so many ppl here thinks, that all those who critize choice Cullen as MA hate his character. It's not like that at last by my side. Im sure he will be good and complex character, and maybe even I will know him better in my game, but I could to that if he would be NPC or companion only too. My problem is simple. As a anti Chantry and pro Mage player I see too much power and important roles in Pro Chantry- anti mage characters hands, what makes me worry that theirs points of view will not allow me to do certain things in game in the way I like. I understand that maybe I will able to influence theirs opinion, but it's nothing funny to have argue with half of my companions/advisers every time I want to do something in game.

[obsessedwjpn]

I just wonder how someone that believes mages are weapons that can't be treated like regular people is going to be able to function with a qunari mage inquisitor that believes in greater freedom for mages and would choose to kill a thousand templars over being locked up in the circle.

 

Wait, how can you be against someone who kills all mages because of prejudice when it sounds like you have the same prejudice against templars? Is there no room for compromise or at least trying to work things out without mass violence of everyone associated with one side?

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

yeah Cullen is a "good person" to listen hawke who order to not execute(but to tranquil) 3 mages who beg for mercy after then he with Mederith without any rights to do, massacre hundreds of innocent mages for actions of 1 apostage grey warden who was not from Kirkwall  and Chantry Cirlce and Meredith with Templars know that it was his fault

 

I never said Cullen was a good person, I don't think he is a bad person but he still has plenty of faults and has made some bad choices. But I'm pretty sure that it is Hawke that listens to Cullen in this play-through. Hawke asks Cullen's advice, Cullen gives it, Hawke agrees. Cullen just advised Hawke.    

[Asdrubael Vect]

Wait, how can you be against someone who kills all mages because of prejudice when it sounds like you have the same prejudice against templars? Is there no room for compromise or at least trying to work things out without mass violence of everyone associated with one side?

maybe because Orlais Chantry and their Templars opress, hunts, treat like slaves and kill mages and non-andrastians for their n*zi faith that they are "blessed by the Maker and this is their sacred right and duty to do that"

 

the people fight with organizations and those who are members of Orlais Chantry and Templars are part of this organization so they for being a part of this factions and for duing their Tempalars work must be destroyed for the sake of the rest Thedas who is opressed and harm by them

[obsessedwjpn]

First I agree that we should wait and see, but still both sides ( pro and anti certain things) have right to discuss don't You think?

The second thing is that right now, before game relase i know Cullen, Cassandra and Leliana only from two previous games and I can't assume that they will different in DAI ( again wait and see). So right now I have right to be affraid, that they didn't change, that too many power is in wrong hands, and that there will be difficult to play game my way becouse of that.  

 

Of course you have the right to discuss but you sound so assured in your belief that everything will turn out so horribly. I just think you are stressing too much over something that 1) you have no idea how it will play it until you play the game and 2) at this point in development you can't change what the devs have decided in the way of story and who to include, so I just think it might benefit you to be a little more open minded.

 

Try not to be too pessimistic

[obsessedwjpn]

maybe because Orlais Chantry and their Templars opress, hunts, treat like slaves and kill mages and non-andrastians for their n*zi faith that they are "blessed by the Maker and this is their sacred right and duty to do that"

 

the people fight with organizations and those who are Templars are part of this organization so they for being a part of this factions and for fuing their Tempalars work must be destroyed

 

Not all Templars are evil and not all mages are evil. This is how I see it at least. I don't necessarily believe everyone on either side is right or wrong. Templars have done some horrible/reprehensible stuff for sure but mages have responded to this in some awful ways as well. Let's not forget that it was the magisters of old Tevinter that necessitated the need for templars in the first place. So magic and mages HAVE done some pretty horrible/reprehensible stuff as well. 

 

Neither side is blameless and both need to change in some ways.

Modifié par obsessedwjpn, 06 juillet 2014 - 11:41 .

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

I never said Cullen was a good person, I don't think he is a bad person but he still has plenty of faults and has made some bad choices. But I'm pretty sure that it is Hawke that listens to Cullen in this play-through. Hawke asks Cullen's advice, Cullen gives it, Hawke agrees. Cullen just advised Hawke.    

I just ran out of likes. I need more Mana!! So I shower you with likes and chestnuts

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

Of course you have the right to discuss but you sound so assured in your belief that everything will turn out so horribly. I just think you are stressing too much over something that 1) you have no idea how it will play it until you play the game and 2) at this point in development you can't change what the devs have decided in the way of story and who to include, so I just think it might benefit you to be a little more open minded.

 

Try not to be too pessimistic

 

Not all Templars are evil and not all mages are evil. This is how I see it at least. I don't necessarily believe everyone on either side is right or wrong. Templars have done some horrible/reprehensible stuff for sure but mages have responded to this in some awful ways as well. Let's not forget that it was the magisters of old Tevinter that necessitated the need for templars in the first place. So magic and mages HAVE done some pretty horrible/reprehensible stuff as well. 

 

Neither side is blameless and both need to change in some ways.

Like like likety like! I ran out, I'm so sorry. Keep making sound points and as soon as they come back I will make it rain likes on you

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

I just ran out of likes. I need more Mana!! So I shower you with likes and chestnuts

 

Mwahahaha! Now you must suffer along with the rest of us. Wallow in the despair that is NO LIKES ! 

[Ava Grey]

Not all Templars are evil and not all mages are evil. This is how I see it at least. I don't necessarily believe everyone on either side is right or wrong. Templars have done some horrible/reprehensible stuff for sure but mages have responded to this in some awful ways as well. Let's not forget that it was the magisters of old Tevinter that necessitated the need for templars in the first place. So magic and mages HAVE done some pretty horrible/reprehensible stuff as well. 
 
Neither side is blameless and both need to change in some ways.

Need more likes *sobs*

All my handmade LIKES belong to you.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Not all Templars are evil and not all mages are evil. This is how I see it at least. I don't necessarily believe everyone on either side is right or wrong. Templars have done some horrible/reprehensible stuff for sure but mages have responded to this in some awful ways as well. Let's not forget that it was the magisters of old Tevinter that necessitated the need for templars in the first place. So magic and mages HAVE done some pretty horrible/reprehensible stuff as well. 

 

Neither side is blameless and both need to change in some ways.

the people are not born but became Orlais Templars who are evil by their purpose and nature as the fanatics n*zi executers, they do not do any good things, never do for the 1000 years and because of them Thedas nations suffered

 

they are mindless cruel fanatics for Orlais Chantry dirty works and they give Templars a holy right to do bad stufff...opress and enslave non-andrastians and mages, hunt them and send to concentration campsas Chantry Circles and force them to work and brings a lot of money for Orlais Chantry and create lithany of andrala and do others magic stuffs so Templars and Chantry would be protected and fight with mages and help Orlais empire to conquer the world and spread their influence to others...they does not care about someone but only about themselfs and their influence with power to controll Thedas nations by propoganda and swords

 

Orlais Templars are not a ordinary people like nonmages and mages but a members of organization who always do bad stuff and create a problems and Templars know what they doing and who serve in this organization are do this, so they must pay for what they done and be destroyed for the sake of all Thedas

 

the same with Qunari, deamon and dragon worchippers and any who do sh*t because they are crazy fanatic or just  criminals

[Giubba]

the people are not born but became Orlais Templars who are evil by the nature as the fanatics n*zi executers, they do not do any good things, never do for the 1000 years and because of them Thedas nations suffered

they are mindless cruel fanatics machines for Orlais Chantry dirty works and they give a holy right to do bad stufff...opress and enslave non-andrastians and mages, hunt them and send to concentration camps and force them to work and brings a lot of money for Orlais Chantry and create lithany of andrala and do others magic stuffs so Templars and Chantry would be protected and fight with mages and help Orlais empire to conquer the world and spread their influence to others...they does not care about someone but only about themselfs

Orlais Templars are not a ordinary people like nonmages and mages but a members of organization who always do bad stuff and create a problems, so they must pay for what they done and be destroyed for the sake of all Thedas

I am a promage and i think that the whole circle system is one of the best example of "what it could possibily go wrong" mentality.

But what you wrote is simply crazy.

[esper]

I'm really happy to see Cullen in a prominent role in DAI, and I think that his personal history makes him an excellent choice. And I'm not even a Cullenite, just really intrigued by his character arc so far. 

 

I know this isn't the sole reason for some players disliking Cullen, but it's getting tiring to see guys harping about his inclusion being fanservice, etc. Cullen is interesting and had a complex multi-game character arc on par with characters like Isabela, Anders and Leliana, that's why he's being included. There's also the added value of him having personally experienced the worst of both sides of the mages/templar conflict that's currently boiling in Thedas. 

 

As people have pointed out in several threads, the timeline shows us that the templar war has been going on for 3-4 years at the time of the peace talks. During this time, Cullen has presumably been trying to keep order in the melting pot that is Kirkwall after the destruction of the Chantry and the following circle rebellion. Adding what happened in Asunder a couple of years later into the mix, and it's really not that hard to see why Cullen would be an interesting character to explore in DAI. What other templar have we met previously who could bring the same complex narrative to the mix? Cassandra's choice to bring him into the Inquisition seems more than reasonable to me. 

 

Having a character whose opinons or previous actions you abhor in the game is nothing new. I absolutely hated what Loghain did in DAO, especially towards the elves and how he sacrificed King Cailan, but I still enjoyed making him a grey warden and see him work to redeem his previous actions. It made him more interesting and complex as a character and I was pleasantly surprised to see his cameo in Awakening. Reading The Stolen Throne and The Calling later made me sympathetic to his paranoia towards Orlais, and eventually I even sort of came to understand his disappointment in Cailan, the son of Maric whom he was so devoted to. 

 

So if a player like me can reverse my opinion of Loghain, is it really so impossible for others to reverse or at least enjoy the appearance of Cullen in DAI? He might even end up as your new favourite character. You can't know that before you play the actual game. 

 

Because this isn't just about synphathy and redemption of the character. I for example always felt sympathic towards Loghain. We isn't recruiting him as one of our followers, we are not here to drag him around as a companion.

 

He is the, not a, the military advicer which means that he have a great deal of influence over the military and how can I as a pro mage, anti chantry player whose characters a like to... argue with him a lot trust that he doesn't turn my own military against us? How can I even trust his advice when I know our goals beside the hole in the sky does not align very much? And if they suddenly align how can I as a player trust they keep doing that?

 

There is also the fact that I as a player not he has been traumatized and seen the 'worst of both sides' - the latter thing is not good. It just mean he is biased against both group or confused about what to feel - a confused advisor is not a good thing.

 

If I can't have neutral advisors, I prefer for the players to be able to pick ones that align wiht them politically since then you have to worry about a lot less being backstabbed. It's important that you trust your and the group your advisors have the your and your groups best interest at heart.

[In Exile]

Because this isn't just about synphathy and redemption of the character. I for example always felt sympathic towards Loghain. We isn't recruiting him as one of our followers, we are not here to drag him around as a companion.

 

He is the, not a, the military advicer which means that he have a great deal of influence over the military and how can I as a pro mage, anti chantry player whose characters a like to... argue with him a lot trust that he doesn't turn my own military against us? How can I even trust his advice when I know our goals beside the hole in the sky does not align very much? And if they suddenly align how can I as a player trust they keep doing that?

 

There is also the fact that I as a player not he has been traumatized and seen the 'worst of both sides' - the latter thing is not good. It just mean he is biased against both group or confused about what to feel - a confused advisor is not a good thing.

 

If I can't have neutral advisors, I prefer for the players to be able to pick ones that align wiht them politically since then you have to worry about a lot less being backstabbed. It's important that you trust your and the group your advisors have the your and your groups best interest at heart.

I really think you're greatly overstating the extent to which any of these political sub-issues are going to be the focus of DA:I. You're not going to have the option of turning the Inquisition into your personal army for righting the perceived social wrongs of Thedas, any more than you could use the GWs in Amaranthine in DA:A to overthrow the Chantry or the Circles.