756 réponses à ce sujet

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

I am a promage and i think that the whole circle system is one of the best example of "what it could possibily go wrong" mentality.

But what you wrote is simply crazy.

 

LAWL LIKE!

[dutch_gamer]

The arguments in this thread turned me from anti-Cullen into a pro-Cullen fan. I think the arguments of the anti-Cullen side are often too weak. It is either about the swooning over Cullen with no evidence whatsoever that he is fanservice or it is about some who are pro-mage/anti-chantry and who take this to the extreme. The inquisition is a organization that, I believe, in the beginning is founded and a part of the chantry and some can't seem to deal with the existence of the chantry. I really doubt the game will allow you to get rid off the chantry it its entirety. In another thread about mage supporters it sounds like people are trying to turn Thedas into present day Earth.

 

And as for being able to choose your advisors yourself, I think people who request this don't truly understand how much this would cost Bioware. If you could pick any of your companions as the new advisor they would need to record everything at least 9 times. It is just not remotely feasible. And at the end of the day you can likely ignore the advisors. And no, I hope there is no way to execute them. I don't see why that is even remotely a normal response. It sounds more like blind hatred to me. Hatred for pixels.

 

And why does anyone need to trust Cullen's advice? It is to you, the player, to decide if you heed his advice or not. Did you always trust someone like Morrigan? I find it rather doubtful Cullen would be able to use your military against you, he is an advisor, nothing more and you, the inquisitor, are the leader. The only one who could, in theory, turn the inquisition against you is Cassandra, the likely founder of the order.

[wolfsite]

Frankly for these three characters (Cullen, Cassandra, Lelianna) they have all shown in previous games that they can be influenced by the words or deeds of another which in a way actually makes them prime choices for being in the game as it allows for the player some flexibility in dealing with them how they like (Origins: Lelianna could be hardened/ DA2: Cullen could be shown that not all mages are evil and he even stands beside/kneels to Hawke if you show there is a better way/ and Cassandra even developed a case of hero worship during Varric's story and she softened up quite a bit by the end of the tale)

[Asdrubael Vect]

But what you wrote is simply crazy.

orly?

 

so Orlais and his Orlais Chantry does not do monopoly for magic services and many knoledges with their censorship? and they do not send to their circles any mages especially from nobles who do not have any rights as would not their childrens even if Chantry would allow to have them?

 

does not have their Orlais Templars in any country exept those who are still fight against them like Tevinter?...ferelden after DAO send Templars away like Logain wanted to do...and what Orlais Chantry with Templars do in Kirkwall kingdom we already see as we know what they do in Rivain

 

and what Orlais with his Chantry does not do exalted marches, expand their empire and do not do 20 annulments?

[esper]

I really think you're greatly overstating the extent to which any of these political sub-issues are going to be the focus of DA:I. You're not going to have the option of turning the Inquisition into your personal army for righting the perceived social wrongs of Thedas, any more than you could use the GWs in Amaranthine in DA:A to overthrow the Chantry or the Circles.

 

Oh, I don't expect that, but I would still like to have character back in hq that my character can trust. I just spoke from a mostly roleplaying view.

 

It just don't feel like your are the head of an organisation if you can't pick your own advisors. Heck I would be satisfied if I could hire/fire as the organisation grows. It just break the whole leader illusion too much and it can end up feeling like you are nothing, but Cassandra's puppet. (since she organised it). I would be satisfied if for example we could hire/fire as the organisation grows. Just being able to hire would be enough actually.

 

I am also afraid that there will be some kind of 'loyalty' check at mid or end game. Bioware has those a lot of times. In which case not being able to boot a character whose loyalty you can't bring up is frustrating and really break the illusion of leadership.

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

The arguments in this thread turned me from anti-Cullen into a pro-Cullen fan. I think the arguments of the anti-Cullen side are often too weak. It is either about the swooning over Cullen with no evidence whatsoever that he is fanservice or it is about some who are pro-mage/anti-chantry and who take this to the extreme. The inquisition is a organization that, I believe, in the beginning is founded and a part of the chantry and some can't seem to deal with the existence of the chantry. I really doubt the game will allow you to get rid off the chantry it its entirety. In another thread about mage supporters it sounds like people are trying to turn Thedas into present day Earth.

 

And as for being able to choose your advisors yourself, I think people who request this don't truly understand how much this would cost Bioware. If you could pick any of your companions as the new advisor they would need to record everything at least 9 times. It is just not remotely feasible. And at the end of the day you can likely ignore the advisors. And no, I hope there is no way to execute them. I don't see why that is even remotely a normal response. It sounds more like blind hatred to me. Hatred for pixels.

 

And why does anyone need to trust Cullen's advice? It is to you, the player, to decide if you heed his advice or not. Did you always trust someone like Morrigan? I find it rather doubtful Cullen would be able to use your military against you, he is an advisor, nothing more and you, the inquisitor, are the leader. The only one who could, in theory, turn the inquisition against you is Cassandra, the likely founder of the order.

I need more likes! This is perfectly stated. Thank you!

[J-Reyno]

Allan has already stepped in to state that this game is not about squashing the Chantry.  There are bigger threats here, like demons falling from the sky.  The interview reveals that Cullen understands the Order has not lived up to its ideal.  His concern now is moving forward to fight for something he knows he can believe in, such as the impending threat for which the Inquisition is created to fight.

 

Already Cullen shows less bias and more clarity of the situation than many players.  As a character he is less clouded by the events of the past two games than some of us are.  He's not picking sides.  He has learned that it's not that simple, which is ironically something that many here have yet to understand.  Now he's fighting for something we can all get behind.  It has been strongly suggested that Cullen is fairly neutral on the mage-templar-chantry issue at this point and is here to support the Inquisition in its purpose.  I'd argue that his willingness to set aside what he once strongly believed in, admit his wrongs, and work for betterment is an example of growth that even some players aren't capable of.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

The arguments in this thread turned me from anti-Cullen into a pro-Cullen fan. I think the arguments of the anti-Cullen side are often too weak. It is either about the swooning over Cullen with no evidence whatsoever that he is fanservice or it is about some who are pro-mage/anti-chantry and who take this to the extreme. The inquisition is a organization that, I believe, in the beginning is founded and a part of the chantry and some can't seem to deal with the existence of the chantry. I really doubt the game will allow you to get rid off the chantry it its entirety. In another thread about mage supporters it sounds like people are trying to turn Thedas into present day Earth.

 

And as for being able to choose your advisors yourself, I think people who request this don't truly understand how much this would cost Bioware. If you could pick any of your companions as the new advisor they would need to record everything at least 9 times. It is just not remotely feasible. And at the end of the day you can likely ignore the advisors. And no, I hope there is no way to execute them. I don't see why that is even remotely a normal response. It sounds more like blind hatred to me. Hatred for pixels.

 

And why does anyone need to trust Cullen's advice? It is to you, the player, to decide if you heed his advice or not. Did you always trust someone like Morrigan? I find it rather doubtful Cullen would be able to use your military against you, he is an advisor, nothing more and you, the inquisitor, are the leader. The only one who could, in theory, turn the inquisition against you is Cassandra, the likely founder of the order.

 

This is perfect! LIKE!

[obsessedwjpn]

Allan has already stepped in to state that this game is not about squashing the Chantry.  There are bigger threats here, like demons falling from the sky.  The interview reveals that Cullen understands the Order has not lived up to its ideal.  His concern now is moving forward to fight for something he knows he can believe in, such as the impending threat for which the Inquisition is created to fight.

 

Already Cullen shows less bias and more clarity of the situation than many players.  As a character he is less clouded by the events of the past two games than some of us are.  He's not picking sides.  He has learned that it's not that simple, which is ironically something that many here have yet to understand.  Now he's fighting for something we can all get behind.  It has been strongly suggested that Cullen is fairly neutral on the mage-templar-chantry issue at this point and is here to support the Inquisition in its purpose.  I'd argue that his willingness to set aside what he once strongly believed in, admit his wrongs, and work for betterment is an example of growth that even some players aren't capable of.

 

Very nicely stated. Props to you! Oh and have some cookies too *sets down a delicious tray of cookies in front of you*

[obsessedwjpn]

The arguments in this thread turned me from anti-Cullen into a pro-Cullen fan. I think the arguments of the anti-Cullen side are often too weak. It is either about the swooning over Cullen with no evidence whatsoever that he is fanservice or it is about some who are pro-mage/anti-chantry and who take this to the extreme. The inquisition is a organization that, I believe, in the beginning is founded and a part of the chantry and some can't seem to deal with the existence of the chantry. I really doubt the game will allow you to get rid off the chantry it its entirety. In another thread about mage supporters it sounds like people are trying to turn Thedas into present day Earth.

 

And as for being able to choose your advisors yourself, I think people who request this don't truly understand how much this would cost Bioware. If you could pick any of your companions as the new advisor they would need to record everything at least 9 times. It is just not remotely feasible. And at the end of the day you can likely ignore the advisors. And no, I hope there is no way to execute them. I don't see why that is even remotely a normal response. It sounds more like blind hatred to me. Hatred for pixels.

 

And why does anyone need to trust Cullen's advice? It is to you, the player, to decide if you heed his advice or not. Did you always trust someone like Morrigan? I find it rather doubtful Cullen would be able to use your military against you, he is an advisor, nothing more and you, the inquisitor, are the leader. The only one who could, in theory, turn the inquisition against you is Cassandra, the likely founder of the order.

 

Very well said, indeed. Cookies for you too good sir/m'am! *gets out another tray of steaming hot,freshly baked cookies*

[Asdrubael Vect]

boy you are mental. Get a break.

i give stuff and you call me crazy

 

after i give another what was about earlier you call me mental

 

 

if you have nothing to say and will just give me such crap so get lost kid

[In Exile]

Oh, I don't expect that, but I would still like to have character back in hq that my character can trust. I just spoke from a mostly roleplaying view.

 

It just don't feel like your are the head of an organisation if you can't pick your own advisors. Heck I would be satisfied if I could hire/fire as the organisation grows. It just break the whole leader illusion too much and it can end up feeling like you are nothing, but Cassandra's puppet. (since she organised it). I would be satisfied if for example we could hire/fire as the organisation grows. Just being able to hire would be enough actually.

 

I am also afraid that there will be some kind of 'loyalty' check at mid or end game. Bioware has those a lot of times. In which case not being able to boot a character whose loyalty you can't bring up is frustrating and really break the illusion of leadership.

 

Well, I think a big aspect of Inquisition is that you're not really the head of the Inquisition until some time into the game. That is to say, I think your unique ability is the impentus behind the formation of the organization but you've got no power and influence at the start, and it's only as you start to lead the organization to a series of unlikely and otherwise incredible victories that its founders, as well as the rest of Thedas, actually start falling in line with you.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Well, I think a big aspect of Inquisition is that you're not really the head of the Inquisition until some time into the game. That is to say, I think your unique ability is the impentus behind the formation of the organization but you've got no power and influence at the start, and it's only as you start to lead the organization to a series of unlikely and otherwise incredible victories that its founders, as well as the rest of Thedas, actually start falling in line with you.

yeah but you still will have Lelianna, Cullen and Cassandra...even after you will have loyal non-andrastians and apostage mages in your Inquisition

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

Allan has already stepped in to state that this game is not about squashing the Chantry.  There are bigger threats here, like demons falling from the sky.  The interview reveals that Cullen understands the Order has not lived up to its ideal.  His concern now is moving forward to fight for something he knows he can believe in, such as the impending threat for which the Inquisition is created to fight.

 

Already Cullen shows less bias and more clarity of the situation than many players.  As a character he is less clouded by the events of the past two games than some of us are.  He's not picking sides.  He has learned that it's not that simple, which is ironically something that many here have yet to understand.  Now he's fighting for something we can all get behind.  It has been strongly suggested that Cullen is fairly neutral on the mage-templar-chantry issue at this point and is here to support the Inquisition in its purpose.  I'd argue that his willingness to set aside what he once strongly believed in, admit his wrongs, and work for betterment is an example of growth that even some players aren't capable of.

 

No likes left so.. LIKE!

 

You have pretty much nailed it on the head with this. There is nothing more I could think of to possibly add. I seriously feel like I have been banging my head against a wall in this thread. For me, it's not even about getting people to like Cullen. It's about opening them up to the idea of him being the Military Adviser in a positive light instead of all this black and white negativity over him -- step into the grey area people, there is plenty of room and there is cake  -- and him being one of our advisers isn't going to change no matter how much they dislike that fact. 

[GloriousDame]

The arguments in this thread turned me from anti-Cullen into a pro-Cullen fan. I think the arguments of the anti-Cullen side are often too weak.

Wow. I tip my hat (kind of a lie, I don't really have a hat) to you. There are very few people that are willing to let their strong dislike/strongly held beliefs be molded by good arguments from the opposing side-it's an incredibly mature and rare thing to do! For what it's worth, you're now one of my favorite people here. Also, I'm out of likes, sorry.

[esper]

Well, I think a big aspect of Inquisition is that you're not really the head of the Inquisition until some time into the game. That is to say, I think your unique ability is the impentus behind the formation of the organization but you've got no power and influence at the start, and it's only as you start to lead the organization to a series of unlikely and otherwise incredible victories that its founders, as well as the rest of Thedas, actually start falling in line with you.

 

But that is not what they advertize it as. They at the whole time focus of the 'lead your own inqusition', 'form it the way you want' thing.  Which I have alwaus known they wouldn't be able to do a 100 procent, but I had hoped they would pick more neutral npc's as the starting members  of the group and then characters such as Leliana and Cullen joins when we grow in influence. Sort of pick your allies against the big evil style.

 

And it still don't feel like being the head, when you have no say in who have important positions. Still just the ability to boot (I believe I accidently said hire before), characters you don't like give a good feeling of leadership. It doesn't have to be the first thing we are able too, just as long as it is before the end game.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

yeah but you still will have Lelianna, Cullen and Cassandra...even after you will have loyal non-andrastians and apostage mages in your Inquisition

 

Why are you so adamant in believing that every decision that these three people make is going to be clouded by their faith? I'm pretty sure that their main concern is making sure that Thedas doesn't crumble to dust and as long as that is your Inquisitors main concern I don't see how you would have any huge problems with them. They are there to advise and support you but you are the leader of the Inquisition, you are the one that makes the choices and if things don't go how you want them to it will most likely be because of a wrong decision you made, not because Leliana, Cullen and Cassandra are plotting against you in the background. 

[Lost_In_Anarchy]

Why are you so adamant in believing that every decision that these three people make is going to be clouded by their faith? I'm pretty sure that their main concern is making sure that Thedas doesn't crumble to dust and as long as that is your Inquisitors main concern I don't see how you would have any huge problems with them. They are there to advise and support you but you are the leader of the Inquisition, you are the one that makes the choices and if things don't go how you want them to it will most likely be because of a wrong decision you made, not because Leliana, Cullen and Cassandra are plotting against you in the background. 

Guess what I'm going to say? Guess? LIKE!

 

I'm not sure why so many seem to miss the difference between adviser and leader. We do have the option to ignore our advisers. Why wouldn't we? And these characters are much more than their faith. I will remind people again to read the books and go back and play Origins-DA2. Go in with an open mind and really listen to what the characters say and not just see them as agents of the Chantry. If they still dislike a character, cool. They may learn a little empathy however and see the other side of the coin. Even better. But to try to go into DA:I with heels dug in going NO NO NO, that's just silly.

[Kingthlayer]

A little late to this party, but I stand on the anti-cullen as military advisor side.  He's been in the past two games and has shown nothing to prove him worthy of this spot, Knight-Captain to Knight-Commander IMO is irrelevant as I wouldn't want Gregoir or Meredith as my military advisor in the first place.  All is a Templar is, is a glorified babysitter, they don't know how to lead armies or train proper soldiers, all they know how to train is drugged up bullies who pick on poor mages.

 

If we can't kill Cullen in Inquisition, we better have the option to restrict his lyrium intake because I'm the Inquisitor dammit and I want to see him beg for his lyrium.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

A little late to this party, but I stand on the anti-cullen as military advisor side.  He's been in the past two games and has shown nothing to prove him worthy of this spot, Knight-Captain to Knight-Commander IMO is irrelevant as I wouldn't want Gregoir or Meredith as my military advisor in the first place.  All is a Templar is, is a glorified babysitter, they don't know how to lead armies or train proper soldiers, all they know how to train is drugged up bullies who pick on poor mages.

 

If we can't kill Cullen in Inquisition, we better have the option to restrict his lyrium intake because I'm the Inquisitor dammit and I want to see him beg for his lyrium.

 

I am assuming that you have failed to read the previous pages in this thread? 

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

Guess what I'm going to say? Guess? LIKE!

 

I'm not sure why so many seem to miss the difference between adviser and leader. We do have the option to ignore our advisers. Why wouldn't we? And these characters are much more than their faith. I will remind people again to read the books and go back and play Origins-DA2. Go in with an open mind and really listen to what the characters say and not just see them as agents of the Chantry. If they still dislike a character, cool. They may learn a little empathy however and see the other side of the coin. Even better. But to try to go into DA:I with heels dug in going NO NO NO, that's just silly.

 

We need to get a fist bump gif for each other to use when we run out of likes, because come on, you know it's coming.................. LIKE!   

 

It really is just silly, I'm actually starting to wonder if they are going to find any enjoyment in this game at all. From the sounds of it, a lot of them are more concerned with bringing down the Chanrty than actually closing the breach that is going to, you know, destroy all of Thedas. 

[Kingthlayer]

I am assuming that you have failed to read the previous pages in this thread? 

 

25 pages is a lot to read through.  I did skim the BioWare posts though.

[Asdrubael Vect]

 From the sounds of it, a lot of them are more concerned with bringing down the Chanrty than actually closing the breach that is going to, you know, destroy all of Thedas. 

Inquisitor can choose chaos on Orlais lands and this breach is destroy just Orlais Empire and can get some Ferelden lands but who cares

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

25 pages is a lot to read through.  I did skim the BioWare posts though.

 

There are a lot of good arguments on the pro-Cullen side. I say start around page 15 if you are interested. As I have said previously, for me it's not about making people into a Cullen fan, It's about opening people up to Cullen being the Military Adviser in a more positive light 

[The Elder King]

But that is not what they advertize it as. They at the whole time focus of the 'lead your own inqusition', 'form it the way you want' thing.  Which I have alwaus known they wouldn't be able to do a 100 procent, but I had hoped they would pick more neutral npc's as the starting members  of the group and then characters such as Leliana and Cullen joins when we grow in influence. Sort of pick your allies against the big evil style.
 
And it still don't feel like being the head, when you have no say in who have important positions. Still just the ability to boot (I believe I accidently said hire before), characters you don't like give a good feeling of leadership. It doesn't have to be the first thing we are able too, just as long as it is before the end game.

It's more or less the same situation as in ME2, with you joining at the leader of the operation With an already formed group. Considering the current threat the Inquisitor is forced to accept the other members (after all, you do know who you're joining).
The difference with ME2 is that there is nobody above you.
If we'd have founded the Inquisition, It'd have been more reasonable that we choose the leading members. But we don't. We join an already existing organization.