192 réponses à ce sujet

[Karlone123]

It may sound fatalistic but I have a strong feeling autodialogue will be in ME4, my only hope is that it is not used as much as it was in ME3. Everyone has heard all of this before but it makes me more worried if Bioware heavily relied on it on again. Autodialogue to me, made me feel less involved when engaging in dialogue with characters, and assumed its own opinion on Shepard and did not give me much chance to choose an option for myself. So to sum it all up, it made the dialogue less engaging and less interactive. I hope Bioware recognises this and lets players have more a varying degree of having something to say.

 

One thing I hope Bioware invests in is letting players set the tone of emotion of the character they are playing, having the option of someone who is sensitive to the horrors of battle, or one who strong-minded to resist breaking down on emotion. That would bring back the joy of crafting our own characters. Shepard was quite linear (hope I am using that right) in how he/she acting as there was not much room to choose how Shepard could act or feel on things. I hope with the next gen, we can get something like this in Mass Effect.

[KaiserShep]

I have no problem with autodialogue so long as it's more generic statements, rather than making any kind of declaration or other that you would rather not say, like:

 

"Okay" or "So I heard" as opposed to "The Citadel? The fight's here!"

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I have no problem with autodialogue so long as it's more generic statements, rather than making any kind of declaration or other that you would rather not say, like:

 

"Okay" or "So I heard" as opposed to "The Citadel? The fight's here!"

 

I'd prefer auto-dialogue to be at a minimum as much as possible. I don't care if it takes away from their 'more cinematic' approach, I want to be able to RP and control my character, not the character that BW wants me to play as. 

[Karlone123]

I have no problem with autodialogue so long as it's more generic statements, rather than making any kind of declaration or other that you would rather not say, like:

 

"Okay" or "So I heard" as opposed to "The Citadel? The fight's here!"

I forgot to mention that, I am ok with autodialogue that takes on general statements like you quoted, it's just the autodialogue making its own declarations that bothered me. I liked DA2 take on autodialogue taking into account on your character's personality and choice they have made. ME3 rarely did that,

[cap and gown]

You do realize that ME1 was filled with "auto-dialogue," you just had to press a button to hear it. Try picking every different option on what Shepard saw when he/she was zapped by the Beacon. Try any number of dialogue "choices" that have Shepard saying the exact same thing.

 

Let's face it, your real problem is with the script, not the mechanics of how it is delivered.

[KaiserShep]

I always suspected that Shepard was supposed to have a lot more lines in ME1, judging by all the dialogue options we had, and it just fell through the cracks in development. I mean, you could get three options, and every single one shared the exact same line.

 

Anyway, total control has always been rather spotty, due in large part to the fact that lines were paraphrased, and paragon or renegade interrupts were often unexpected in their outcome.

[Karlone123]

You do realize that ME1 was filled with "auto-dialogue," you just had to press a button to hear it. Try picking every different option on what Shepard saw when he/she was zapped by the Beacon. Try any number of dialogue "choices" that have Shepard saying the exact same thing.

 

Let's face it, your real problem is with the script, not the mechanics of how it is delivered.

You're probably right, It be more accurate to say I'd rather the character progress through dialogue at my own pace, rather than then it's own. I become disinterested in the conversations in ME3 because a big portion of the dialogue progresses on its own.

[cap and gown]

I always suspected that Shepard was supposed to have a lot more lines in ME1, judging by all the dialogue options we had, and it just fell through the cracks in development. I mean, you could get three options, and every single one shared the exact same line.

 

Anyway, total control has always been rather spotty, due in large part to the fact that lines were paraphrased, and paragon or renegade interrupts were often unexpected in their outcome.

 

My suspicion is that every dialogue wheel appearance was going to have 3 options, no matter what, and that they just didn't know how to really make many of them any different than the others. And I suspect that is why when you get to ME2 the number of choices is generally reduced to two, but with each choice actually being different.

 

The name of the game has always been resources. How much to put into x versus how much to put into y.

[themikefest]

Don't like it. I wasn't a fan of playing femshep's stunt double in ME3 when it came to dialogue I had no control over.

[dreamgazer]

They need to scale it back in the next game by about half, and it probably wouldn't hurt to reinstate the conversation "illusion of choice" mechanic where the three dialogue wheel selections---despite being entirely different---led to the same output (makes people feel like they're in control, even though it's the same damn thing as autodialogue). I don't mind it for perfunctory dialogue, which is what most of ME3's ends up being, but it does become frustrating during long stretches and when the game assumes reactions.

There's a balance between the things that all three games do right (and eliminating what all three games do wrong), and I'd like to see Montreal figure it out.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Bethesda sure seems able to make a game completely without auto dialogue

Why can't Bioware? 

[dreamgazer]

Bethesda sure seems able to make a game completely without auto dialogue

Why can't Bioware?

They definitely could, if they went back to silent protagonists and abandoned any ambition towards a cinematic narrative.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

They definitely could, if they went back to silent protagonists and abandoned any ambition towards a cinematic narrative.

Or they could pay the voice actor a bit more. Sure, things like hello and the like are okay. 

[dreamgazer]

We'll have to see how Inquisition and its multiple actors for the PC (four in total, I believe, two for each gender) turns out. 

[KaiserShep]

We'll have to see how Inquisition and its multiple actors for the PC (four in total, I believe, two for each gender) turns out. 

 

It all seems so ambitious. I know Inquisition has been in development much longer than its predecessor, but I can't help but be a bit skeptical. I guess I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

[Texhnolyze101]

They definitely could, if they went back to silent protagonists and abandoned any ambition towards a cinematic narrative.

 

They definitely could, if they went back to silent protagonists and abandoned any ambition towards a cinematic narrative.

 

I would love if they did that.

[Tempest_]

They need to scale it back in the next game by about half, and it probably wouldn't hurt to reinstate the conversation "illusion of choice" mechanic where the three dialogue wheel selections---despite being entirely different---led to the same output (makes people feel like they're in control, even though it's the same damn thing as autodialogue). I don't mind it for perfunctory dialogue, which is what most of ME3's ends up being, but it does become frustrating during long stretches and when the game assumes reactions.

There's a balance between the things that all three games do right (and eliminating what all three games do wrong), and I'd like to see Montreal figure it out.

 

I'd agree with this. Whilst the dialogue choices in ME2 often led to the same outcome, the response (whether paragon, neutral or renegade) at least gave the player a modicum of control over who their Shepard was.

 

Those choices didn't shape the game or even individual conversations in meaningful ways, but they allow the player to gradually develop a Shepard that feels definitively "theirs".

 

I did miss that in ME3.

[shepskisaac]

Anyway, total control has always been rather spotty, due in large part to the fact that lines were paraphrased, and paragon or renegade interrupts were often unexpected in their outcome.

Obviously it wasn't perfect in either ME1 or ME2, but ME3 took a huge step backwards. I'm not even against auto-dialogued characters by definition, if they're designed this way from the start then it's fine like in Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex or The Witcher etc. But Shepard was not like that in ME1/ME2, you can't just make a radical change the PC character third-way through. It honestly felt like the devs just wanted their own defined emotional PC and were no longer interested in writing a PC whos character/temperament is mostly up to the players to define. Line-count (due to variables) and cinematic approach may have played some role, but in most instances it would be actually more cost-efficient to have the NPC deliver some of the lines than having Shep do it in auto-dialogue (keep in mind it means 2 voice actors compared to 1 NPC). There were multiple cutscenes in ME3 where not a single dialogue wheel appeared yet Shep was talking constantly.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I would love if they did that.

 

It depends for me. For a game like Mass Effect, I'm so used to having a voiced protagonist.

 

There's definitely got to be a balance that can be reached by having a voiced protagonist while still having a healthy dialogue choice selection.

[Steelcan]

I just hope that it is limited to generic statements or exclamations, any dialogue used to convey an opinion or viewpoint should be chosen

[dgcatanisiri]

ME2 had it about right when it came to the amount of auto-dialogue. There were some automatic responses, but they were pretty generic, with multiple dialogue spots that were potentially just two options instead of all three, and every use of the dialogue wheel offered varying responses. That's the way that it needs to be in future games - ME1 has options that aren't really options, because they're the same dialogue from every angle, and ME3 doesn't have enough variation or choice, railroading the player in far more obvious a fashion than the previous games have.

[KaiserShep]

ME2 had it about right when it came to the amount of auto-dialogue. There were some automatic responses, but they were pretty generic, with multiple dialogue spots that were potentially just two options instead of all three, and every use of the dialogue wheel offered varying responses. That's the way that it needs to be in future games - ME1 has options that aren't really options, because they're the same dialogue from every angle, and ME3 doesn't have enough variation or choice, railroading the player in far more obvious a fashion than the previous games have.

 

I agree. The greatest flaw that I felt was apparent in ME2's dialogue system was actually in how it was affected by the renegade/paragon system. Other than that, it was the sweet spot in the series in and of itself. Personally, I'd like to see the end of dialogue that's locked out based on morality alignment.

[Steelcan]

I agree. The greatest flaw that I felt was apparent in ME2's dialogue system was actually in how it was affected by the renegade/paragon system. Other than that, it was the sweet spot in the series in and of itself. Personally, I'd like to see the end of dialogue that's locked out based on morality alignment.

Inagree with this, ME2 does seem like the happy medium

[naddaya]

Bethesda sure seems able to make a game completely without auto dialogue

Why can't Bioware? 

 

Bethesda doesn't have voiced protagonists. And to be honest, good dialogues and interesting characters aren't exactly Bethesda's strong points. Their protagonists have pretty dull lines.

 

Autodialogue isn't bad on its own, it's bad when it makes assumption about the protagonist's personality. As long as it's neutral dialogue like yelling orders and saying hello, I have no problem with it. People disliked it in ME3 because it broke the personality they established for Shepard in the previous games.

[BioWareM0d13]

*Some* autodialogue is a good thing. It makes conversations more cinematic and natural, rather than the ME1 model where conversation was more stilted and characters stood nearly as still as trees. Despite some of the complaints around these parts about ME3, I thought the character interaction was a vast improvement over the first game. That of course doesn't mean there wasn't some issues.

 

I think the key is that the autodialogue should only be used when the dialogue is something neutral, rather than the protagonist voicing agreement, disagreement, or having an emotional reaction to something without player input. Or when a scene might benefit from autodialogue, have the player select the 'tone' for an upcoming speech or verbal exchange rather than selecting the tone for each individual sentence a protagonist utters.