192 réponses à ce sujet

[thearbiter1337]

99% more autodialogue,, also ME4 will not be a roleplaying game 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well, Shepard's an idiot. 

"I thought Asari needed other species to reproduce."

Of course, another horrible line. "Human dominance, or Cerberus dominance?" As if all but one of my Shepard's thinks either of those is okay. 

 

I love Liara's schooling of Idiot Shepard.

 

[KaiserShep]

Well, Shepard's an idiot. 
"I thought Asari needed other species to reproduce."
Of course, another horrible line. "Human dominance, or Cerberus dominance?" As if all but one of my Shepard's thinks either of those is okay.

I have to give the first one a pass, because even the paraphrase indicates that it's something stupid, and I never choose it. So Shepard is only an idiot in that instance if you want him/her to be.

[Peer of the Empire]

Hated Shephard's reaction after the kid's death in ME3.  Way too girly

[shepskisaac]

I don't really have too much of a problem with the "I'm sorry" bit, but I can see where people might. But that is not a problem with "auto-dialogue" but with the script. What if they had given you another option, only that one sucked too? Even though I don't have a problem with the "I'm sorry" dialogue, I do have a huge problem with the next dialogue with the crew where you DO have an option because BOTH options suck, IMO. In one case Shepard says "I should have known." How? In the other case, Shepard says "Now Thessia's lost, and that's on me." What?!?! How is that on Shepard? Wonderful, I got to pick a response, and both of them suck.

Post-Thessia stuff on the Normandy is in general the most jarring example of autodialogue and forcing pre-defined Shep on the player. On top of that, it's  inconsistient with the rest of the game - there's no auto-dialogued tantrum after Shepard 'loses' Earth and/or Palaven. Even the dreams aren't as jarring as the Joker yelling and apologizing to Asari councilor.

[Fixers0]

Still makes sense to me, since Earth is home to 11.4 billion members of the human population (over 9/10 of their numbers) and colonies frequently send their industrial output back there.  Earth doesn't matter because it's home; it matters because it's the human capital. 

 

No, actually, It does't make sense, seeing as it disproves shepard's qualities of that of soldier and a commander. If you're unable to act in a professionnal manner in the line duty regarding matters of the utmost strategic importance then you're simply not qualified for the job and should be relieved for letting emotions interfere with duty.

[KaiserShep]

In what way did emotions interfere with duty? Shepard essentially did what was required, regardless of what he/she may have said. Relieved of duty? And replaced with whom, and how?

[Fixers0]

In what way did emotions interfere with duty? Shepard essentially did what was required, regardless of what he/she may have said. Relieved of duty? And replaced with whom, and how?

 

I'm sorry, but I can't characterize Shepard's attachment to earth in any other way as unprofessional. I also see it as a direct cause for the failure to form a galacatic coalition at the start of the Reaper. Moreover, aforementioned behaviour als disqualifies Shepard's capabilities as that of a military commander, seeing how he's letting a personal goal (saving earth) interfering with his mission (defeating the Reapers).

[KaiserShep]

I'm sorry, but I can't characterize Shepard's attachment to earth in any other way as unprofessional. I also see it as a direct cause for the failure to form a galacatic coalition at the start of the Reaper. Moreover, aforementioned behaviour als disqualifies Shepard's capabilities as that of a military commander, seeing how he's letting a personal goal (saving earth) interfering with his mission (defeating the Reapers).

 

I'm sorry, but you didn't answer my question. In what way did Shepard's attachment to Earth interfere with the mission? What action did the Commander take that served to the objective's detriment? Per Hackett's orders, Shepard and Liara retrieved the plans and presented the Crucible blueprints, and the Council dismissed it. Shepard didn't insist that they just fly off with the humans to Earth; he/she simply insisted that they help build it, and that the fleets should rally together.

 

Direct cause for the failure to form a galactic coalition at the start of the war? I have your cause right here:

 

Ah yes, 'reapers'. The immortal race of sentient starships allegedly waiting in dark space. I thought we dismissed this claim.

 

So I guess the ineffectual gasbags that seemed to totally forget that they fully acknowledged the reapers years prior get a pass?

 

In any case, Shepard then, per Sparatus' advisement, proceeds to rescue the new Primarch, then follows Victus' advisement to get the krogan on board, and so on and so forth. Nothing regarding Earth seemed to ever get in the way of these plans, and every single mission Shepard engages is on someone else's advice or order.

 

I see no sufficient reason why Shepard is unqualified, no do I see any way anyone would have any recourse to relieve Shepard of duty anyhow. Hackett approved Shepard's reinstatement, and Anderson stayed behind on Earth. Opinions about professionalism are pretty much irrelevant. Shepard's all they got, and far as I can tell, he/she was successful anyway.

 

Funny thing is, Anderson and Hackett, by this line of thinking, should also be considered unprofessional, unqualified and should be relieved of duty as well, because both of them frame their plans around saving Earth as well, and I can't say that I blame them. The strategic importance of the entire galactic community is great, but saving the galaxy won't mean much to the human race if they're rendered functionally extinct by the end of the reaper war.

[Reorte]

The problem, IMO, with the series is not the micro-issue of picking whether to be polite or rude in any particular conversation. The problem is the script is TOO micro focused. It should have a/several larger themes where the MC picks one alignment or the other. Saying "help me please" vs "help me you jerk" is not really role-playing. Being pro- or anti-genophage, for instance, is. That's where I think the effort should be focused, not on letting the MC pick and choose the adjectives they will use.

It needs a reasonable amount of both IMO, for good roleplaying it's not only the large decisions that shape your character but also how he behaves in more mundane situations.

[Reorte]

I'm sorry, but I can't characterize Shepard's attachment to earth in any other way as unprofessional.

How many soldiers, at all ranks, don't have any emotional attachment to something back home? How often has recruiting material actually played on that "Protect your country, your family!" etc.)? As long as it doesn't get in the way of their actions and making sound judgments it's clearly normal and acceptable, and someone without any such attachment to anything would be a bit of a concern (it's not a sign of a healthy mind and might make motivation a bit questionable).

As has been mentioned plenty of times the problem is entirely down to whether Shepard would have any emotional attachment to Earth at all (instead of just treating it as in the appropriate strategic light), and even if he does it should be down to the player to establish to what degree for their character.

[InvincibleHero]

Every dialog is autodialg because we are only ever presented with a choice of BW design. I like well-written, cinematic , and emotion driven scenarios presented in ME3 vs. the bland cookie cutter let them roleplay everything of the previous games. Sorry, they should have a personailty of some kind a life in the world that you cannot control. they are an avatar not you put in the game.

 

People want a ridiculous amount of control when you are playing someone else's story make no bones about that. You do not write anything and any tapestry you make from it was planned for by the devs so you accomplish nothing of import.

 

As long as they allow an amount of choice present in ME3 I am good to go. They can make the world more alive when they have more freedom to decide things.

[CptFalconPunch]

You do realize that ME1 was filled with "auto-dialogue," you just had to press a button to hear it. Try picking every different option on what Shepard saw when he/she was zapped by the Beacon. Try any number of dialogue "choices" that have Shepard saying the exact same thing.

 

Let's face it, your real problem is with the script, not the mechanics of how it is delivered.

It's all about the illusion of choice. You have to make us believe something that isn't true aka not noticing it. 

 

 

This shouldn't get out of hand though ( ME2 , ME3 rachni,ending)

[Fixers0]

How many soldiers, at all ranks, don't have any emotional attachment to something back home? How often has recruiting material actually played on that "Protect your country, your family!" etc.)? As long as it doesn't get in the way of their actions and making sound judgments it's clearly normal and acceptable, and someone without any such attachment to anything would be a bit of a concern (it's not a sign of a healthy mind and might make motivation a bit questionable).

 

Well, you do strike an interesting point here, you need understand to understand there, or at least there used to be a strict seperation between earth and the Alliance, with Alliance being responsible for the governance and protection of humanity's extra solar territories, while the defense of earth would fall on it's nation states. See, before after the Arrival dlc got released , I criticized Bioware's decision to have Shepard being tried on earth, rather Arcturus. same goes for the defense committee, which also should have been at Arcturus rather then earth. The point i'm getting at here is that the wellbeing of Earth shouldn't be a concern for an Alliance officer, certainly not professionally but argualy also not emotionally. Therefore I find Shepard's concern for earth  to be incredibly unprofessional.

 

Lastly, with regards to your final point, someone who has little to no emtional attachment can be fully focussed on his/her duty and is therfore capable of making decision and executing orders that people might struggle with.

[naddaya]

I have nothing against Shepard being attached to Earth. I'd only like it not to be mandatory.

 

My dear renegon colonist Shepard (who I bring up in every example, can't help it ) came from Mindoir. On a personal level, she cared about the survival of humanity as much as the survival of the other races. Most of her closest friends were aliens. She had no emotional attachment to Earth (she only mentioned it in the previous two games during a conversation with Ash) and her focus was destroying the Reapers. In ME1 she put being a Specter before being an Alliance soldier and a human, because she deemed the welfare of the galaxy a higher goal. She was exasperated by the blindness and stupidity of the council, but she was fighting for everyone. This is why I cringed a little when she said the couple of lines I mentioned earlier. I understand the strategic importance of Earth, I just wish they talked about the bigger picture more often.

 

Hated Shephard's reaction after the kid's death in ME3.  Way too girly

 

Wasn't too fond of it either. Shepard has seen a lot of friends, and possibly family members die. While PTSD works in weird ways, people tend to be more scarred by personal loss. Especially weird if your Shepard leans towards the Renegade side. But girly, really?

 

 

[Barquiel]

I don't really have a problem with Shepard caring about Earth. It's more Shepards fixation on Earth that bothers me. Ok, I care about Earth. But I wasn't sure why Shepard and the whole galaxy thought that saving Earth was the key. And I have a problem with Shepard acting like everyone else should care about Earth while their own homeworlds are under attack. Why would the Asari/Turians/Salarians would just agree to pull their fleets away from their own worlds in order to save Earth? Earth has no military or strategic significance that should have placed it at the highest priority. The problem with the storyline is that all the other races were willing to commit to Earth before the Citadel was even at Earth. Now I understand that an Earth-centric scenario sells better...but it never made any sense from an in-universe perspective. Both Thessia and Palavan have had much greater strategic importance than Earth. There was also some dialogue in the leaked script where this is discussed, but these scenes unfortunately got cut.

[Excella Gionne]

I don't really have a problem with Shepard caring about Earth. It's more Shepards fixation on Earth that bothers me. Ok, I care about Earth. But I wasn't sure why Shepard and the whole galaxy thought that saving Earth was the key. And I have a problem with Shepard acting like everyone else should care about Earth while their own homeworlds are under attack. Why would the Asari/Turians/Salarians would just agree to pull their fleets away from their own worlds in order to save Earth? Earth has no military or strategic significance that should have placed it at the highest priority. The problem with the storyline is that all the other races were willing to commit to Earth before the Citadel was even at Earth. Now I understand that an Earth-centric scenario sells better...but it never made any sense from an in-universe perspective. Both Thessia and Palavan have had much greater strategic importance than Earth. There was also some dialogue in the leaked script where this is discussed, but these scenes unfortunately got cut.

I thought that was a really weird and odd. If Shepard knew that the reapers would be settling on Earth and are waiting for the entire galaxy to come face them then sure. And that is exactly what happens on Priority: Earth or whatever the Prothean VI tells you.

[Raizo]

I have no problem with autodialogue so long as it's more generic statements, rather than making any kind of declaration or other that you would rather not say, like:
 
"Okay" or "So I heard" as opposed to "The Citadel? The fight's here!"

I agree. I was trying to think of way to phrase my thoughts and opinions on the matter and I don't think I could do any better than what you said.

There is a certain inevitability to auto dialogue and I do not mind it as long as it's kept to exposition and general statements. Opinions or anything that determines personality should always be left to the player. Bioware should also do a better job of balancing auto dialogue and the dialogue wheel, conversations should not go on to long without some sort of input from the player.

[themikefest]

I don't mind Shepard caring about Earth, just not as much as seen in the game.

 

What bothers me more, is we can't say anything to the Asari for not showing up to the summit, hiding a Prothean beacon and then apolgizing to the Councillor. But of course they're special where they can do no wrong.

[Excella Gionne]

I don't mind Shepard caring about Earth, just not as much as seen in the game.

 

What bothers me more, is we can't say anything to the Asari for not showing up to the summit, hiding a Prothean beacon and then apolgizing to the Councillor. But of course they're special where they can do no wrong.

Everyone loves asaris. Well, BioWare, at least you're honest about that. And that's like the only thing that is stable throughout the entire trilogy minus the asaris we killed throughout the trilogy. Those were just pole dancers in the wrong places at the wrong time.

[Livi14]

I don't really have a problem with Shepard caring about Earth. It's more Shepards fixation on Earth that bothers me. Ok, I care about Earth. But I wasn't sure why Shepard and the whole galaxy thought that saving Earth was the key. And I have a problem with Shepard acting like everyone else should care about Earth while their own homeworlds are under attack. Why would the Asari/Turians/Salarians would just agree to pull their fleets away from their own worlds in order to save Earth? Earth has no military or strategic significance that should have placed it at the highest priority. The problem with the storyline is that all the other races were willing to commit to Earth before the Citadel was even at Earth. Now I understand that an Earth-centric scenario sells better...but it never made any sense from an in-universe perspective. Both Thessia and Palavan have had much greater strategic importance than Earth. There was also some dialogue in the leaked script where this is discussed, but these scenes unfortunately got cut.

I'm not surprised at all and really, why should I be? The entire series has that attitude. In the Mass Effect universe, humanity is special, that was the whole point of ME2's plot with the Collectors. A whole race of Mary Sues, happens sometimes inevitably in Sci-fi and fantasy when humans write it, and it's a very old and cliched plot device.

[KaiserShep]

Well, you do strike an interesting point here, you need understand to understand there, or at least there used to be a strict seperation between earth and the Alliance, with Alliance being responsible for the governance and protection of humanity's extra solar territories, while the defense of earth would fall on it's nation states.

 

Where did you get the idea that there's a strict separation between the earth and the Alliance? What is it based on from what we learn in the game? The Systems Alliance is the representative body of both the Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space (in-game fact). There's no separation; the Alliance is meant to defend both, but as far as strategic importance goes, the Earth is #1, as it comprises the bulk of the human race (doesn't matter who you are or what you think, that will always be important when it comes to ensuring the continued existence of your species). If it came down to defending the colonies or defending the Earth, the Earth would take precedence for that reason alone. It's simple numbers, and they have more. Much much more.

 

 

 

See, before after the Arrival dlc got released , I criticized Bioware's decision to have Shepard being tried on earth, rather Arcturus. same goes for the defense committee, which also should have been at Arcturus rather then earth. The point i'm getting at here is that the wellbeing of Earth shouldn't be a concern for an Alliance officer, certainly not professionally but argualy also not emotionally. Therefore I find Shepard's concern for earth  to be incredibly unprofessional.

 

Nonsense. You cannot realistically place restrictions on people's emotional attachments, nor can anyone rightly determine whether or not someone is unprofessional or unbecoming of an officer based on that. What matters is what they do, not what they think. This isn't Equilibrium or something where your emotions are purged for some reason. And this ain't Vulcan. Shepard didn't have to go through the kolinahr when we weren't looking. But you're not really making a sound basis on which it's determined that an Alliance officer should not be concerned about the Earth. What is this based on? It's a fair guess that many would have family on Earth, and you're about as likely to get them to somehow give up those feelings as you would to squeeze blood out of a rock. I imagine if someone told me to stop caring, I'd do so on the condition that the person asking first conjure up a Leprechaun out of thin air. And again, losing the Earth means potentially losing the entire human race in the process.

 

 

Lastly, with regards to your final point, someone who has little to no emtional attachment can be fully focussed on his/her duty and is therfore capable of making decision and executing orders that people might struggle with.

 

Whether or not someone can make sound decisions isn't guaranteed by their lack of emotional attachment. That's like saying most modern day soldiers are automatically compromised because they're not unfeeling automatons.

[Bob from Accounting]

What Gaider is doing in Dragon Age Inquisition is this: you have your dialogue wheel, with your choice, and you get to see what your character is going to say before you make that choice by hovering the cursor over it for the first part of the response. It doesn't mean there won't be any autodialogue. It means you'll see the entire first sentence or two rather than just two words and then get a surprise of saying something entirely different than you thought.

 

I'm pretty sure this is entirely wrong.

 

That the player can hover and receive an explanation only for choices. That for regular dialogue, you get the paraphrase and that's it.

[Fixers0]

Where did you get the idea that there's a strict separation between the earth and the Alliance? What is it based on from what we learn in the game? The Systems Alliance is the representative body of both the Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space (in-game fact). There's no separation; the Alliance is meant to defend both, but as far as strategic importance goes, the Earth is #1, as it comprises the bulk of the human race (doesn't matter who you are or what you think, that will always be important when it comes to ensuring the continued existence of your species). If it came down to defending the colonies or defending the Earth, the Earth would take precedence for that reason alone. It's simple numbers, and they have more. Much much more.

 

The Codex specifically mentions that the Alliance is a political-economical block that was created for the governance and security of humanity's extral solar territories as well as representing Humanity as whole to the galactic community, addtional information also confirms that earth is governed by independant nations stations, you cannot go around, so you're claim that there is no seperation between Earth and the Alliance is simply inccorect. Of course as the trilogy went on this point got muffled away, but it still remains in the codex.

 

Furthermore I highly doubt your claim of  Earth's strategic importance, It's described as an "Acid-washed Slum" and it said to be exhausted out of raw materials. It's got a high population, but not arguebly not a very productive one.

[Bob from Accounting]

Furthermore I highly doubt your claim of  Earth's strategic importance, It's described as an "Acid-washed Slum" and it said to be exhausted out of raw materials. It's got a high population, but not arguebly not a very productive one.

 

You should learn the difference between hallucinated delusions and evidence.