192 réponses à ce sujet

[CptFalconPunch]

I do like when Harbinger tells Shepard "You have become an annoyance."

 

I wish Shepard was able to say "Sovereign was a lot smoother than you."

 

The only annoyance was harbinger himself. This is typical developer logic.

 

What did the audience like about sovereign? All I see is his quotes going around.Ergo Harbinger's dialogue should be quote after quote after quote.

 

"This hurts you" -dies

"Your attacks are primitive"- his own attacks are laughable while mine are overpowered, dies

"The forces of nature bend to me"-dies

"This is true power"-does no damage, dies

 

His voice is cool though ^^

[AlanC9]

"This hurts you" -dies
"Your attacks are primitive"- his own attacks are laughable while mine are overpowered, dies
"The forces of nature bend to me"-dies
"This is true power"-does no damage, dies
 
His voice is cool though ^^

Textbook example of Villain Decay. Or at least it should be.

[KaiserShep]

The only annoyance was harbinger himself. This is typical developer logic.

 

What did the audience like about sovereign? All I see is his quotes going around.Ergo Harbinger's dialogue should be quote after quote after quote.

 

"This hurts you" -dies

"Your attacks are primitive"- his own attacks are laughable while mine are overpowered, dies

"The forces of nature bend to me"-dies

"This is true power"-does no damage, dies

 

His voice is cool though ^^

 

Yeah, but it just keeps coming back, like a cosmic cockroach, and then when it comes for real it starts killing everyone.

[dreamgazer]

Yes, the same line. The way Shepard says it makes it sound like an act of "heroic defiance" rather than simply pointing out a fact. Shepard hasn't even encountered the Reapers, never mind downing one at that point. It sound more like a "I shall fight you IRL and defeat you" than a "surely you have an off switch"

 

Indeed. It's cheesy and petulant, but also rather naive.

[Han Shot First]

Harbinger failed as a villain because he was far less cold and mechanical than Sovereign was. With Sovereign it seemed like Shepard was conversing with an emotionless A.I., whereas much of Harbinger's dialogue is dripping with emotion. Sovereign seemed more alien, and that made it more intimidating.

 

The other problem is that Harbinger was encountered through possessed mooks who you could usually kill mid-insult. That served to make Harbinger more of a joke than an enemy you feared.

[Farangbaa]

Harbinger failed as a villain because he was far less cold and mechanical than Sovereign was. With Sovereign it seemed like Shepard was conversing with an emotionless A.I., whereas much of Harbinger's dialogue is dripping with emotion. Sovereign seemed more alien, and that made it more intimidating.

 

The other problem is that Harbinger was encountered through possessed mooks who you could usually kill mid-insult. That served to make Harbinger more of a joke than an enemy you feared.

 

When Sovereign speaks to you, you're nothing. You're a puny organic who, by accident ('You are not Saren') gets to speak to it.

 

By the time Harbinger speaks to you, you're responsible for Sovereign's death. The Reapers know you. Harbinger's trying to get in your head, make you fearful.

[themikefest]

I like Harbinger. He was nice enough to kill my squadmates on the beam run, if my ems was low enough

 

It was funny in ME2 when you "kill" him mid insult. The funniest is when, during the suicide mission, you knock a collector off the side or use pull,  it changes to Harbinger and starts talking smack. Too bad he didn't have more of a role in ME3

[Bob from Accounting]

Harbinger failed as a villain because he was far less cold and mechanical than Sovereign was. With Sovereign it seemed like Shepard was conversing with an emotionless A.I., whereas much of Harbinger's dialogue is dripping with emotion. Sovereign seemed more alien, and that made it more intimidating.

 

The other problem is that Harbinger was encountered through possessed mooks who you could usually kill mid-insult. That served to make Harbinger more of a joke than an enemy you feared.

 

That's just nonsense.

 

The (single?) time Shepard speaks to Sovereign, he launches into an entirely pointless tirade of superiority.

[dreamgazer]

That's just nonsense.

 

The (single?) time Shepard speaks to Sovereign, he launches into an entirely pointless tirade of superiority.

 

Why was it pointless, Bob?

[Bob from Accounting]

I would think that would be completely obvious. It accomplishes nothing. It's just Sovereign showing off how tough he is because he apparently cares that the human has a suitably fearful peception of him.

[KaiserShep]

I would think that would be completely obvious. It accomplishes nothing. It's just Sovereign showing off how tough he is because he apparently cares that the human has a suitably fearful peception of him.

 

Isn't monologuing 101 one of the basics at Villainy School?

[Jorji Costava]

Hope nobody throws anything at me, but I actually kinda agree with Bob here. I don't think Sovereign was particularly cold or mechanical at all; he just had fewer opportunities to embarrass himself than Harbinger did. Maybe his bloviating would work better if you were trying to set up hubris as a defining characteristic of the Reapers, and if this hubris somehow played into their eventual downfall, but that doesn't seem to be the route the series went in the end.

[dreamgazer]

I would think that would be completely obvious. It accomplishes nothing. It's just Sovereign showing off how tough he is because he apparently cares that the human has a suitably fearful peception of him.

Interesting observation, Bob, but ultimately incorrect. You actually learn about the Reapers and the relays from Sovereign's posturing, as well as the outline for their agenda: apex of a civilization's glory, confirmation of cycles, imposing order on the chaos of organic evolution, etc. That, along with their clinical and egotistical outlook on choking off organic life, as if it's a nuisance.

Wouldn't exactly call that "pointless".

[ImaginaryMatter]

I like Harbinger. He was nice enough to kill my squadmates on the beam run, if my ems was low enough

 

It was funny in ME2 when you "kill" him mid insult. The funniest is when, during the suicide mission, you knock a collector off the side or use pull,  it changes to Harbinger and starts talking smack. Too bad he didn't have more of a role in ME3

 

I like it when you Dominate a drone right before Harbinger assumes control. That way it taunts as it kills it's friends or just stands there.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The only annoyance was harbinger himself. This is typical developer logic.

 

What did the audience like about sovereign? All I see is his quotes going around.Ergo Harbinger's dialogue should be quote after quote after quote.

 

"This hurts you" -dies

"Your attacks are primitive"- his own attacks are laughable while mine are overpowered, dies

"The forces of nature bend to me"-dies

"This is true power"-does no damage, dies

 

His voice is cool though ^^

 

I always thought a better mechanic -- if he has to show up as an enemy -- would be to make Harbinger invincible (or have so much health that killing him, while possible, would be very difficult). To offset this there would be too much biotic energy, or whatever, that the drone eventually disintegrates from the power, so there's a time limit to how long he can appear. That way during Harbinger encounters the player would have to run away or avoid him, instead of gunning him down like the other hundred Collectors.

[grey_wind]

Harbinger failed as a villain because he was far less cold and mechanical than Sovereign was. With Sovereign it seemed like Shepard was conversing with an emotionless A.I., whereas much of Harbinger's dialogue is dripping with emotion. Sovereign seemed more alien, and that made it more intimidating.

I actually liked that Harby and Sovvy were so different from one another. It lent credence to the idea that the Reapers truly were independent and unique. Scale back his taunts significantly (he doesn't have to pop a one-liner every 10 seconds) and make him a more formidable opponent in gameplay like you and ImaginaryMatter mention, and you've already solved the biggest issue surrounding the character: his presentation.

[Farangbaa]

I would think that would be completely obvious. It accomplishes nothing. It's just Sovereign showing off how tough he is because he apparently cares that the human has a suitably fearful peception of him.

 

You're not supposed to see him, Sovereign's expecting to see Saren. (Remember? "You are not Saren" are the first words he says).

Ofcourse he's going to try scare you.

[Massa FX]

Some of the auto-dialogs are just good as is. You have to admit that.

 

However, there are a LOT of ones that I wish would have played out differently and to this day I grit my teeth through them.

[Han Shot First]

Interesting observation, Bob, but ultimately incorrect. You actually learn about the Reapers and the relays from Sovereign's posturing, as well as the outline for their agenda: apex of a civilization's glory, confirmation of cycles, imposing order on the chaos of organic evolution, etc. That, along with their clinical and egotistical outlook on choking off organic life, as if it's a nuisance.

Wouldn't exactly call that "pointless".

 

Bob's post on the other hand...

[wolfhowwl]

It appears Bob has been permabanned...again.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Bob's post on the other hand...

 

Eh, it's in the past now. Blob's been perma'd.

 

Damn it, ninja'd...

[DeinonSlayer]

Eh, it's in the past now. Blob's been perma'd.

Damn it, ninja'd...

Just you wait. He'll be back to scoff haughtily in a new disguise.

[DeinonSlayer]

And he'll be fairly easy to detect, when he critisizes everybody's ideas and opinions that aren't his.

Not to mention favorably invoking posts made with his previous identity.

If you're looking for an alternative to the ending of ME 2, I was looking back at the old threads of David7204 to see what the person everyone accuses me of being was like, and his suggestion was really quite brilliant. Powerful, plausible, very elegant. Far and away superior to anything else I've seen here.