83 réponses à ce sujet

[Blazomancer]

The Fire and Ice trees, the Glyphs, the Walking Bombs, the Hexes are extremely useful while soloing. Prioritizing these can be more advantageous than focusing solely on the Entropy school right from the start. That's not to say you shouldn't get them at all; spells like Sleep and Death Cloud along with the combos that come with them are nice in their own right. Optimal attribute allocation would be to put every point in magic.

[DarthGizka]

@ Cncrjs

 

I've soloed two CC/nukers on nightmare, one of whom - Fiona - went all the way to Amgarrak. My current character Ajira is level 16 and has been on layover in Orzammar for the past two weeks, because there wasn't enough play time for adventuring and I want to finish some research first.

Fiona started with Cone of Cold + Walking Bomb while Ajira went for Mind Blast + Fireball. The Cone of Cold route is a bit slower and more methodical, but also easier than the Fireball gambit. However, I've posted a few videos in the fighting style thread that show how easy and powerful the Fireball route can be. Empyrea demonstrates basic Fireball technique in the Circle basement and in the Korcari Wilds, Githany shows an easy - and fast - way to solo Ishal. Just leave out the archers.

Despite going different routes, both converged on essentially the same spellbook at the start of the first mission after Lothering (level 8, Ajira's version shown):

 

The layout may seem a bit strange but that is because only numbered slots can be assigned to hotkeys.

 

That's a core spellbook that allows you to solo successfully, covering every necessity, without getting slowed down and without needing pots outside of boss fights and extremely difficult ones like the triple elite drakes during the Ashes.

 

Next on the list should be Force Field for parking bosses and hexing them up, then Sleep, then Crushing Prison (which is urgently needed in Orzammar, for handling elites who resisted too many other spells). Virulent Walking Bomb would be nice but the spell budget is really tight and so far Ajira couldn't afford it, even though she's earmarked slot number 5 for it already.

The budget doesn't stretch to silver bullets for disabling mages. Glyph of Neutralisation could be got for only one spell point, but that would delay the availability of Sleep by one level and it isn't so hot anyway (e.g. Uldred and Sloth almost always resist it so why bother). This means mages have to be crowd-controlled and nuked like other dangerous enemies.

If you cannot get the drop on an enemy mage then you have to juggle them from beyond spellcasting range, because otherwise you're toast (Crushing Prison, Curse of Mortality, Blood Wound). Cast a repulsion glyph between you and the emissary, wave hello (staff, Arcane Bolt) and retreat so that the glyph is at the edge of your spellcasting range. When the emissary gets close enough to the glyph, upgrade to Paralysis Explosion. That way the emissary never gets close enough for casting spells at you.

The ideal kit is Staff of the Magister Lord plus rings and gloves for spirit and fire damage. One damage type can be boosted to 30% (staff + gloves), the other to 20% or 25% (staff + ring(s)). Uldred drops the Cinderfels gauntlets, which makes the Circle even more attractive for first mission after Lothering.

If you are on a non-cudgel budget then you could do a lot worse than Torch of Embers (Wonders of Thedas), Pocketed Searing Gloves (Circle quartermaster) and two Ember rings (Bodahn). This kit gives you 30% fire damage amplification, and the staff shoots fire as well.

An alternative would be to hit Amgarrak for the cudgel before starting the new campaign, because it allows you to buy four spell tomes and the Staff of the Magister Lords as soon as you're out of Lothering. The Sash of Forbidden Secrets and the High Regard of House Dace are nice bonusses, and together with the Vestments of the Seer they double your spellpower and mana at the beginning of the campaign. Ajira's campaign is essentially a fun run for taking that kit on a cudgel-funded tour of Ferelden.

 

More detailed discussion of nightmare solo spell choices can be found in Need advice from experienced CC/nuker mages.

[Elhanan]

I highly recommend Mana Clash for opposing Mages and Demons, and the lesser spells of that can be useful occasionally.

[DarthGizka]

It can take a long time before a solo mage can afford luxuries like Mana Clash, like middle to late teens. And even then it cannot be taken without seriously compromising combat ability. I'd rather take the earth line, angle for Entropic Death, or go into shapeshifting.

[Hadin]

Am I the only one who finds it sad yet funny that everyone jumped straight for the DPS primal spells when they saw solo yet didn't read the rest of the topic title let alone post?

 

The guy wanted a viable Solo Blood Mage Entropy Specialist build. As I am not a character creator wizard I won't try to brew one but that build should have more then enough CC to be alright.

[DarthGizka]

Soloing without primal spells isn't viable. Even a shapeshifter has to get to level 7 somehow... And I doubt whether soloing the Ishal/Lothering leg of the campaign could be viable without either Cone of Cold or Fireball. That's not only AoE DPS, it's also high-availability AoE CC.

 

There's a reason why my solo mages arrived at almost exactly the same spellbook around level 8 even though they had started out totally differently, with not a single spell in common until Ajira took Walking Bomb in the Wilds. I posted my core spellbook because the only serious alternatives are big stacks of consumables, lots of patience and/or runscript killallhostiles.

 

If you think you know better, post some video evidence or at least some solid facts. So far you've only talked out of your arse.

 

P.S.: before writing my first post here I'd considered whether Sleep would be a viable alternative to the glyphs. It can be, but only up to the end of Lothering or thereabouts.

[Elhanan]

It can take a long time before a solo mage can afford luxuries like Mana Clash, like middle to late teens. And even then it cannot be taken without seriously compromising combat ability. I'd rather take the earth line, angle for Entropic Death, or go into shapeshifting.

Not if one has a PC, the Character Respec mod, and is able to alter their spell lists thru their imaginative Spellbook.
 

[DarthGizka]

Good point. However, it doesn't increase the number of available spell points, it only removes the necessity that the spell progression be viable every step of the way.

 

With Ajira I tried to keep my options open, only committing spell points when it was absolutely necessary. One of the reasons was that I hoped to fit shapeshifting into the current campaign somehow. Ajira is level 16 now and she's collected only a measly two spell points and two specialisations. The Branka fight will likely force a commit, if I want to keep that useless Oghren alive and save the two friendly golems. That fight is tricky enough even with a whole team, let alone solo....

[Mike3207]

OP, I'd need some more information before I could give a good recommendation on what spells might be best. Are you going to pick up a 2nd specialization, and if so what might it be? How much of the Entropy school do you want to pick up, and how much in the other schools?.Also, would you bring another mage along for Destruction/Healing?

At minimum, I think you'd want the Glyph line in Creation and one line in Destruction.Blood mages will want a few points in Constitution, but you might be able to do that with gear. In Awakening there are Stout Runes that can add up to +14 to Constitution so that will help a bit there.

As for the Entropy school, I favor the Hexes and the Paralysis line.Paralyze is very useful when your mage is rushed and Mass Paralysis will be useful when you get groups too close to you.I think one of the Blood Magic spells works well to freeze foes in their tracks as well. Death Hex is very useful for Arcane Warriors/Shapeshifters who want to do a lot of damage against tough foes.

Sleep-I think that's a personal choice.I don't use it, but it is another CC option. Sleep/Horror is a useful combo and you can do a bit more if you pick up the Waking nightmare.

The last Entropy line might be useful if you plan on going Death Hex + Death Cloud for the Combo.Otherwise, I'd just not pick it up.

I think everyone knows I favor Arcane Warrior/Shapeshifter, so I won't say much on that.I'll just say I find picking up both very useful.

As for more spells, I find that duplicating spell tomes helps a bit in that regard.Also, the extra points carry over to Awakening.

[Ironman Gaming]

The main problem I see (and why people recommend other spells) is that the Entropy line doesn't have a lot of damage spells...As a solo player, you still need to put on the hurt yourself and there are only so many damage spells in this line...

 

If I had to prioritize, I'd probably go after death cloud since that's a consistent damage dealer...the rest, the enemies will resist them regularly so it's just not as reliable...

 

If you're ok with it, I'd also get forcefield to sit in my death cloud...After that, I'd probably go after the sleep line and waking nightmare to have some of the mobs help me out, but it's not really reliable.

 

Honestly, because I think you really NEED forcefield, I'd go after walking bomb early and use that to do damage.  Up to virulent as well.  With those, you should be able to do enough damage to probably get through it.

 

Since I'm a bit curious myself, I'll do some testing in Solo Nightmare difficulty and maybe post a video as well so you can see if it's worth it and "fun".

 

Sleep+Horror = Nightmare, Waking Nightmare should be good for most bosses at least if it hits.

 

Since I think undead are immune to death spells, the walking bomb spells are probably necessary.

 

Point distribution is all magic.

[DarthGizka]

A caster mage doesn't have to invest into DEX for boosting attack and defence, and investing into WIL to power multiple sustains isn't necessary either. Investment into CON for fuelling blood magic is only necessary on a no pots run.

 

Hence there is nothing that forces you to invest into anything other than Magic, or that would give you an advantage of any kind.

 

High spellpower means you hit hard enough to take out the opposition before you run out of mana*, and you won't have trouble with physical or mental resistance against your spells.

 

The logic behind preferring Magic over Willpower is that an occasional mana shortfall (boss fights, big fights with loads of hard enemies) can fixed by hitting the bottle, but a shortfall in spellpower can't. Spell Might cannot substitute sufficient spellpower, mind you. It does boost spell damage by 10% but the mana drain means that you and your lyrium supplier will see a lot of each other.

 

If you have to hit the bottle regularly during everyday adventuring then you may want to review your tactics and/or your spellbook. In the long run that's much more effective than weakening your character further by diverting points into WIL.

 

*) assuming that you have some kind of boost, like the Warden Commander boots, the High Regard of House Dace, or the Vestments of the Seer

[DarthGizka]

It would be interesting to see an experienced player - like all people here in this topic - making a go of the 'Sleep instead of glyphs' thing.

 

It should be okay for the whole tutorial phase, Lothering included, with occasional points of excellence as Ironman has so impressively demonstrated.

 

Later it should also be okay for general adventuring but I envision the occasional brick wall. For example, I'd hate to go against the RtO ogre without Paralysis Explosion to keep it pinned in an Inferno for a while, but force-fielding oneself as bait can work around that. Not to forget that Nightmare and Entropic Death should leave the bugger very close to death, if spell resistance doesn't throw a monkey wrench where it hurts.

 

Some comparisons between Entropy spells and those of other schools, where there are overlaps in functionality.

 

Paralyse holds a bit longer than Glyph of Paralysis (15 + (4 - party_size) vs. 10) and it cools down faster (30 vs. 40 s). However, it requires line of sight and it cannot be used as a trap.

 

Mass Paralysis is a two-second cast, has shorter duration than Paralysis Explosion (10 + (4 - party_size) vs. 20), requires line of sight, is subject to physical resistance, takes 10 seconds more to cool down, and fails to paralyse non-hostiles. The long casting time is the biggest impediment here, which puts it in the same class as Blood Wound (where you have to activate blood magic before you can cast it). Sleep can help with that but not against undead, golems and sylvans.

 

Drain Life rocks. That it doesn't require line of sight is just icing on the cake.

 

Curse of Mortality does the same damage as Walking Bomb but doesn't result in a detonation, costs 50% more mana, and takes three times as long to cool down.

 

Death Cloud does the same damage as Tempest or Blizzard, i.e. half as much as Inferno. The damage type (spirit) synergises well with specialising in fire/spirit damage.

 

Entropic Death is the biggest hammer there is, doing twice as much damage as the only other big hammer - Nightmare - which is also an Entropy specialty. Nuff said.

[Mike3207]

Well, given your spell preferences I'd go Fire for undead, Crushing Prison line for Spirit, and Glyphs for creation.That leaves you 8 spell points-enough for the Arcane Line and one specialization.You could alternate some spec points for additional spells, depending on the spec you take-also substitute some additional spells if you don't take the whole Arcane line

[Hadin]

So even though I stated outright that I am not a character creator wizard and that it was just a first impression glance at the concept you want me to provide video proof of something I wasn't 100% sure  of?

 

Are you serious? Okay how's this concept I just thought up in 30 seconds so don't expect too much while doing the my best to keep with the spirit of the build

 

Start As an Elf and dump All points in Magic, Put one point in combat training and if you have it use the Formari tome point for combat training 2

 

1: Weakness+Paralize

2:Disorient

3:Horror+Poison Making 1 (to make use of any bombs/flasks that drop so far)

4:Sleep (would have been sooner if not for the large stat requirement)

5:Miasma

Joining:Drain Life

6:Vulnerbilty Hex

7 Blood Mage+Blood Magic

Tome 1: Death Magic

Tome 2 Curse of Mortality

8: Death Cloud

9: Affliction Hex

10: Misdirection Hex

11: Death Hex

Tome 3:Save

12: Blood Sacrifice

13: Save

14:Arcane Warrior+Blood Wound+Combat Magic+Aura of Might

15:Shimmering Shield Coercion2/3

16:Blood Control

Tome 4: Fade Shroud

17 Walking Nightmare

18: Mass paralize Coercion 3/4

 

Fit the Spell Reward from Arl eamon whenever you get it.Pick any remaining spells to taste and use any skill tomes you pick up to max combat training and poison making for bomb/flask creation.

 

Obviously doing  AW first is more efficient because of Combat Magic passive effect but this is supposed to be a BM build first, thus they are arranged this way.

 

Yes the damage is poor until Blood Wound/Entropic Death, which means more kiting and engaging only one/two enemies at a time if at all arrangeable. The Nightmare combo helps on that front.

 

The real problem is surviving in the wilds for the amount of Xp needed to ding level 4 because of sleep and it's stupid MAG 30 requirement. Once you get it open with sleep, staff blast the closest target then kite backwards and when far enough away from where the mob is sleeping paralize and start shooting with blasts and arcane bolt, using Horror if it will break free from it before being killed rinse and repeat.

 

It will be rough yes But as a mage you automatically start with herbalism 1 and thus have access to far more poltices and potions then the other origins in case of serious problems.

 

Poison Making is to add extra burst damage for special encounters

 

 

Will this concept work on nightmare? I doubt it. Do I particularly care if it works on nightmare? no, not really as this was a thought excercise of a varient build attempting to solo. I wouldn't expect a Beyond Naked Warrior to survive comfortably on Hell/Hell either, I try to be realistic

 

 

and now that I think About it there should be a way to get to 30 MAG at level 3 but it requires the collectors edition dlc for the grimoire of the frozen wastes, which means you end up with 25 MAG at level 1 and 31 MAG At level 3

 

With the relaxed restrictions from the TC's later posts sloting Mind Blast line in at level one gives an AOE CC at level 1+ A disable that never fails with another solid ST damage+Disable in the future. Or pick if you prefer things to die by heat or cold and just stomp your way to victory.

[DarthGizka]

Your build isn't viable, and you are still blathering about things where you lack even the most basic competence.

 

My remark about video evidence had a simple reason: when the rubber hits the road, the worth - or lack thereof - of build advice is indubitably revealed. Which means we would have been spared more swirled crap like yours.

[Hadin]

Yes, please jump down my throat for a thought excercise made in 30 seconds.and swear at me in the process of doing so over the internet.

 

As a result though I have decided to take the varient idea for a spin and see if it might work or is not viable period.

 

If it isn't I will say such and break down exactly why it doesn't work. If it does I will say such, and explain why it does work. I have nothing invested into this other then some hours of my time to play through it beyond being called crap by you simply for actually doing what the TC wanted in the first place

 

Oh, and I don't know why you said otherwise but Racial attribute Points and attributes from tomes do, in fact, work for talent/spell pre reqs as they are in fact considered natural attributes in game for qualifications, And those +level up and allocateable character creation points were the only things I used to qualify for a potential level 3 sleep. So seeing as I just checked in an unmodded game not even two minutes ago, next time you decide to bash look it over twice before hand okay?

 

You 'do' know that many people who play these kind of games have not bought fraps yes? Or is playing on a system that can't handle video recording+game play at playable frame rates at the same time?

 

Demanding video proof right away is not reasonable under either of those conditions and I fall under both the first and second.

 

So forgive me if I don't drop my budgeting plans for the next few months to a year to rush out and buy a new computer in order to please you and your demands

 

  Now seeing as you had started the vulgarity with your last post kindly ****** off if your worldview cannot accept that min-maxing everything is not always 100% required to get things done and that, yes, it is okay and even Fun (shocking I know) to not win all the time single in games so long as you learn in the process while having fun.

 

Because, in the end, it's no skin off my back if it doesn't work so long as I give it my best effort in the process and I am a bit sick to death of eliteist tryhards like you saying that the only way to beat something is to abuse the most broken abilites and characters even when it is overkill to do so

 

 

[Ironman Gaming]

I think DarthGizka maybe giving you a tough time because the original poster asked for tips to do a "POSSIBLE SOLO" run using primarily Entropy spells.  The OP should also clarify what other spells they would be "ok" with using since even my example of getting forcefield, etc...isn't just Entropy.  That said, assuming in you needed all 16 Entropy spells (for achievement) and 4 BM spells, you still have a few more spell slots for other things.  The OP should clarify and say what they will be ok with since those extra spells can vary widely from damage/crowd control (fireball, cone of cold, glyphs, etc...) or wanted to avoid all Primal spells for roleplay reasons or something else.

 

Specifically, he(/she) said:

"

Plan on doing a solo play through as a BM Entropy Mage. Any ideas on how to make this possible. Never done a solo game before. I wish to know what spells I should go for when leveling and how to appropriately distribute points for soloing. Thanks.

"

 

Since he wanted to make it possible (be successful actually and be able to finish/beat the game), he's looking for spells that would make it successful, not for what people wish/think or believe will work in 30 quick seconds.  The forums are great to share ideas, but it's not helping someone if the advice is just wrong or bad.

 

All advice maybe nice to offer, but when it's wrong or useless advice, then that's the same as someone who has never played the game give an opinion which may not be of most use to the original poster (which is the goal of this thread) and this thread is just filled with useless opinion that doesn't help the OP since trying 20 different builds isn't going to get them anywhere since none of them have been tested (but someone thought up in 30 seconds (see my point?)).

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's what DarthGizka is getting at.

 

That said, the problem with your spell list above is you'll probably die really early since the key thing to remember is where you'll be and how many spells you will have.

 

Since mages all have the same origin, we know that we have:

3 spells to start and in the Fade.

4 spells fighting with Jowan (which you turn the A/I off since we're solo)

5 spells in Kocari

7 spells after joining

9 spells at the Ishal Ogre

 

Like solving a puzzle, you need to figure out at each of these key points, what spells should I REALLY take to pass the game (Yes, I've played mages a TON (it's my main class fo rmost games to play)).

 

From your list (You start with Arcane Bolt):

1: Arcane Bolt

2-3: Weakness+Paralize

Paralize is nice, but if you are solo, you'll probably die already in the fade if your paralize doesn't hit the demon there.  Also, and this is critical, you only have Arcane Bolt as an attack/damage spell.  Usually, I start with 3, but this is a nice challenge/mental exercise.

 

4:Disorient

This doesn't help at all when you are fighting with Jowan (solo remember) and the guards in the tower basement will end your game.

 

5:Horror+Poison Making 1 (to make use of any bombs/flasks that drop so far)

Horror is nice, but you get swarmed a lot in the Kocari wilds...If the mage tower didn't get you, the Kokari wilds will surely end your game already.

 

6-7:Sleep (would have been sooner if not for the large stat requirement), Miasma

Sleep is nice too and probably needs to be higher if possible, Miasma is useless at this point.  -10 attack when you can get shield bashed, stunned means you won't get this high level.

 

8-9: Drain Life, Vulnerbilty Hex

Against the Orgre, good luck...You have vulnerability hex, but it's not 100% hit.  If it does hit, sleep and horror is awesome, but the ogre will grab you and probably kill you easily since you're only 1/3 or 1/2 down.  Use bombs too.

 

 

Here's some videos that can give you an idea of what I am talking about:

 

This one was build purely to destroy the Ogre on Nightmare solo no kiting and does it in 40 seconds.

 

This one is built to never kite and finish the whole tower as fast as possible (does in about 15 minutes)...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4-Qd_GxJrI

One of my favorites and early video where you shutdown the Ogre grab completely and go toe-to-toe with him.

 

As you can tell, I prefer to never kiting, engage all mobs within a gang at once...Some prefer never using a health pot, etc...different ways to win/play/enjoy the game...

 

 

Main thing to think about is when you solo, the early levels is where it's very challenging...

 

I need to go and do some play testing before I have better advice, but those are some key level and the number of spells you have at that point in the game.  Thinking out 20 spells is useless if you can't even get out of the origin.

 

More thoughts later if I get time to play/test.

[Mike3207]

How about for survivability? If I'm going against a large group of enemies without any defensive sustainable, what can I use?

Well, for survivability nothing beats either the Arcane Warrior or Shapeshifter. Arcane Warrior has the Shimmering Shield which gives you max physical/mental resistance and elemental resistance, but does so with a high mana regeneration cost.Combat magic also levels with spellpower, so you can get very high damage levels with a all magic build.

For fighting melee groups, it's hard to top Swarm Form with Shapeshifter. I've seen a mage in Swarm Form melee 10 foes at once with nature damage, but it's much less effective against nature resistant foes like undead or golems. The forms are considered sustainables though, as are the AW abilities.

[Ironman Gaming]

All the spells you picked above would take about 36 spells which means you'd be close to level 25.  You'd have to buy both tomes from Bodahn and get the desire demon talent as well.  It's possible maybe with a lot of the DLC, but by the time you have everything, you'll be so powerful already it won't matter what you pick.

 

Since you're ok with both fire and cold lines, I don't think you'd have much trouble really...Problem is if you are ok with a lot of the other spells learned before Entropy.  (Like you're just gettting them to fill out your spells when you might not even use them?)

 

I think Mass Paralysis has very limited use.  The spell casting time is pretty long and if you're going to cast a spell that takes 2 seconds to paralyze them, you might as well just cast Inferno and destroy them instead....There was some discussion on that a ways back where non-damage spells aren't as useful since sleeping or paralyzing them means you still need to use even MORE mana to hit/destroy them.  I'd agree for the most part.

 

Anyhow, I tend to take Winter's Grasp and Fireball early for that reason.  Crowd control with both, and they do damage....Cone of cold is nice too, but considered overpowered.

[Hadin]

Finished with the Origin with level 3 75%ish xp. Only minor trouble spots was the deep stalker leader because of the potential risk of overwhelm mucking up the math and being stunned by spit a few times but nothing that couldn't be compensated for and the Final battle because the leader of the sentries actually resisted the opening Paralyze and was thus forced to follow up with horror. The Horror landed and the rest of the fight went pretty much as I expected after that

 

Order was Weakness+Paralyze at level 1, Disorient at Level 2 and Horror at level 3, Dinged level three after either the first or second sentry battle IIRC so had horror for both yellow fights. Using weakness on the melee sentries that wasn't para'ed/horrored reduced damage taken by a decent amount in conjunction with a buckle of the winds and the mark of vigilence.

 

Also did not know that the mage sentries could cast heal but adapted to it in the same battle I found out with little issue.

 

Used one lesser health poltice on the Deep Stalker Leader encounter for safety vs Overwhelm and otherwise didn't quaff.

 

No I didn't play on nightmare because I am not interested in that kind of pain with a varient build, I played on Hard. If you feel that invalidates the results so far even though it was never stated what difficulty the TC was going to play on then fair enough.

 

Do not have access to post game dlc items (so no vestiments/HROHD/Sash) but do have access to the free dlc items.

 

To make matters worse this is my first serious solo attempt period and I am doing it with a varient build. There was a good deal of on the fly training as a result but things worked out okay so far

 

Next up the wilds where much kiting will ensue if I can survive the first fight with the wolves.