170 réponses à ce sujet

[godModeAlpha]

Dismantle. 
 
There is no reason why religious organizations should exist in Thedas. That includes the Chantry. 
 
1) We do not know the Maker exists or not. Even if the Maker exists, we do not know if he think that the Chant of Light should be the Maker's representatives on Thedas. 
 
2) We do not even know or have many concrete details about Andraste that makes her worthy of being a prophetess and being worshipped. She might be a sominiari or a very powerful healer mage. We do not know what happened to her exactly as in who was the one who came in her dreams and told her to rebel ? A pride demon ? A spirit of hope ? The Maker ? Ancient elves ? 
 
3) The Chantry are a huge and unnecessary drain of resources in Thedas. All those buildings that house the Chantry could have gone into storing food supplies or to provide education for the common folk or to act as a cultural center. All those Templars who get addicted by lyrium and indoctrinated into hating mages could have been sane and good people.
 
4) The Canticle is not even clear how mages are responsible for the hubris. We do not even know if there is an actual Golden City up there. 
 
All in all, the Chantry would be dismantled under my Inquisition. It serves no logical purpose to exist. I would rather have more universities or shops or artisans or theaters or food supply depots existing instead of the Chantry. I would rather have educated and intelligent Theodosians as opposed to blind fools and zealots. 
 
After all, whatever that is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The same goes for the Chantry.

Until the Qunari take over, Freedom of worship is still a choice

[Hizoku]

Destroy, the Qun demands it.

[Kwanzaabot]

The Chantry is probably the worst part about Dragon Age, to be honest, as it's basically just the medieval Christian church, except with a female Jesus. I've got no love for real-world religions, but the thing that irks me the most is just how unimaginitive it is. It must've taken five minutes to come up with it.

 

So if the chance arises, I'll be dismantling it for sure.

 

...

 

And replacing it with the far more interesting Qun.

[andy6915]

Until the Qunari take over, Freedom of worship is still a choice

That's the 1 worry I had about my own ideas. The military of the Chantry is one of the best defenses to the Qunari. So if I neuter their military power and rights and political power, the Qunari may very well be harder to deal with than before. But something will be figured out. After all, people not being recruited by the Chantry means those people instead will become part of the regular army, so the Chantry army being non-existent makes the non-Chantry armies stronger. Besides, the nations can still come together to handle a mutual enemy without the Chantry. And the best weapon against them, the mages, will still be around and able to be mobilized.

[Inprea]

I'm not sure. It depends on if our only choices were reform or dismantle. The chantry was the one funding the templars and the clerics seemed to have authority over them. In my eyes that makes them responsible for the abuses the mages suffered to differing degrees. The greater the authority of the chantry in that region the more responsible I hold them. They're also responsible for spreading the fear of magic in some cases. Those that had authority over templars and either failed in their over sight, tolerated abuses or encouraged them I want to execute. I would say burn alive but that's a pointless cruelty and may provoke sympathy. A swift death seems practical. Those that comforted others and encouraged them to be better people while doing what they can to make others lives better I want to encourage and build up.

 

The real head ache for me is whenever they were doing both. A cleric that helped the common people with alchemy or sage advice while ignoring what's happening with the mages would be hard to deal with.

[Estelindis]

Any Inquisitor of mine whom I consider to be reasonable will not try to dismantle the Chantry, regardless of her personal views on it.  The people of Thedas are free to believe as they wish, so she can't eliminate Chantry beliefs without some kind of awful terror campaign, which, aside from being morally appalling, probably wouldn't even completely work.  And, if people are free from oppression based on religion, they are also free to worship together, to organise structures of belief, to hold certain texts to be sacred and try to live their lives by them. The key, I suppose, is whether or not said organisation acts for the common good.  (Note: the common good, not the greater good.  As far as I am concerned, the latter allows anything to be done to anyone as long as the final result benefits the greatest number of people, and is very much not okay.  I realise that several other definitions of both terms are possible.)  If my reasonable Inquisitors felt that the Chantry acted against the common good, they would want to reform it.

[DarthLaxian]

Tear it down (along with every other superstition)...don't like religions with their dogma (and if you toss that out, not much is left anyway IMO) like not allowing men to become priests (like our catholic church does with women...no wounder I am about to leave that club behind for good...I don't want to pay church-tax (yes: In Germany you pay tax deducted from your income directly to church, as long as you are a member that is...you can't opt out and stay a member (!)) etc.

 

Religions are bad IMO (they hold people back, make them hate and fear each other, they foster religious bigotry, looking down on non-believers etc.) and thus I just don't like them...I would not forbid or persecute them, just enforce the separation of church and state (truly enforce it...church does have too much influence - not only in Thedas, but here, too)

 

greetings LAX

[Estelindis]

Tear it down (along with every other superstition)...don't like religions with their dogma (and if you toss that out, not much is left anyway IMO) like not allowing men to become priests (like our catholic church does with women...no wounder I am about to leave that club behind for good...I don't want to pay church-tax (yes: In Germany you pay tax deducted from your income directly to church, as long as you are a member that is...you can't opt out and stay a member (!)) etc.

 

Religions are bad IMO (they hold people back, make them hate and fear each other, they foster religious bigotry, looking down on non-believers etc.) and thus I just don't like them...I would not forbid or persecute them, just enforce the separation of church and state (truly enforce it...church does have too much influence - not only in Thedas, but here, too)

 

greetings LAX

 

Perhaps I am incorrect, but it seems to me like real-world religion and politics are best left out of discussions of Thedas.  These are very personal matters for many people.  Of course, many people feel very passionately about mages, templars and the Chantry too, so it's not like one avoids causing hurt or offence by just sticking to Dragon Age, but at least in the latter case one stays on-topic.  

[Vilegrim]

Perhaps I am incorrect, but it seems to me like real-world religion and politics are best left out of discussions of Thedas.  These are very personal matters for many people.  Of course, many people feel very passionately about mages, templars and the Chantry too, so it's not like one avoids causing hurt or offence by just sticking to Dragon Age, but at least in the latter case one stays on-topic.  

 

 

Obliterate them, 3 nails and 1 tree per Andrastrian Blood For Hakkon! Blood for the Winterbreath!

[cronshaw]

The chantry is doing quite a nice job of dismantling itself

not sure I see a reason to get in the way of that

[Vilegrim]

Hakkon doesn't care about you anymore than the Maker does.

 

I mean, what's the difference. Both are dormant.

 

 

Hakkon is honest.

[Estelindis]

Obliterate them, 3 nails and 1 tree per Andrastrian Blood For Hakkon! Blood for the Winterbreath!

 

I wasn't aware that nailing people to trees was a particularly Thedasian method of execution.  Clearly I need to read up on my codex entries.

 

Anyway, I sincerely doubt that the game will allow you to do anything remotely as evil as this.  As StreetMagic mentioned above, giving the player that level of power to commit genocide is sickening (to some of us, anyway).  To me, shades of grey are more interesting than this "all the evulz" approach.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

Id give it even more power and put Cassandra in charge

[Vilegrim]

I wasn't aware that nailing people to trees was a particularly Thedasian method of execution.  Clearly I need to read up on my codex entries.

 

Anyway, I sincerely doubt that the game will allow you to do anything remotely as evil as this.  As StreetMagic mentioned above, giving the player that level of power to commit genocide is sickening (to some of us, anyway).  To me, shades of grey are more interesting than this "all the evulz" approach.

 

I wish to treat them as they treated the Avvar and Dalish, drive them into small pockets and obliterate their people and culture.  I do not wish to be right, I wish to be victorious, and one day, an enemy strong enough will do the same to me, and the world will turn on, but this day, oh on this day my enemies shall know terror at the merest rumour of my approach

 

 

You make a medieval setting, damn straight I wish to wage medieval war with in it.  Ghengis Khan, Vlad Tepes and William the Bastard showed how it should be done.

[Estelindis]

It's not a setting in the sense that we play around with every aspect of it and play genocidal decision maker of all Thedas. We're only here within the confines of the writers' story. They direct the setting's main parameters.

 

If they go this route, I'd rather see it in a book. That way the conditions are insured from that point on across the whole setting and all player experiences.

 

Exactly.  Quite aside from the fact that I find the idea morally repulsive, versions of the world in which this did and didn't happen would be too different to act as the staging point for future games.

[Vilegrim]

Exactly.  Quite aside from the fact that I find the idea morally repulsive, versions of the world in which this did and didn't happen would be too different to act as the staging point for future games.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, in the real world, this is repulsive, in a medieval setting?  Especially one set up to be as brutal as Thedas is?  Brutality answers brutality.

[Feybrad]

I will dismantle the Chantry. Not for any ideological reason. It's just... they stand against the Qun and the Qun is supreme. And my Inquisitor is pro-Qun.

[godModeAlpha]

That's the 1 worry I had about my own ideas. The military of the Chantry is one of the best defenses to the Qunari. So if I neuter their military power and rights and political power, the Qunari may very well be harder to deal with than before. But something will be figured out. After all, people not being recruited by the Chantry means those people instead will become part of the regular army, so the Chantry army being non-existent makes the non-Chantry armies stronger. Besides, the nations can still come together to handle a mutual enemy without the Chantry. And the best weapon against them, the mages, will still be around and able to be mobilized.

Great points andy. What would compel the mages to fight the Qunari?

With the chantry gone, the power vacuum will just likely be filled by another organisation / person with a self serving agenda.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The Maker isn't known to exist because it's designed that way. Gaider didn't like how present the gods were in D&D, and wanted to make religion more mysterious and faith based in Dragon Age. To say religion should be dispensed simply because it can't be proven is like saying it should be dispensed in the real world. It can't be proven here either.

 

Good luck with that though. I think people are too optimistic in general on how much their choices will matter. You're not going to wave all mages or templars or the Chantry itself away.

 

Mystery and faith are not values that will empower and drive a sentient species. It is a value that will instead stunt the said species. 

 

Mystery and faith are primitive and archaic values. Mystery and faith are things that are valued by people who wish to wonder, not to understand. Mystery and faith are things that are valued by people who wish to deify, not to learn. Mystery and faith are things that are valued by people who wish to live lives of statism as opposed to evolving and improving. 

 

To quote House :- Faith...that is another word for ignorance isn't it ? Faith isn't based on logic and experience.

 

Before you tell me that Dragon Age has magic, allow me to quote Morrigan :- Magic is real. I can touch it and command it and I need no faith for it to fill me up inside.

 

So the notion that we need the Chantry and the Maker or that they are necessary is a foolish notion. 

 

My Inquisitors would want to either dismantle the Chantry or severly reduce the power of the Chantry or make it so that the Chantry is akin to Ancient Greek Pantheons, where no one worships them anymore but instead use them for entertainment and theatrical purposes. 

[Feybrad]

With the chantry gone, the power vacuum will just likely be filled by another organisation / person with a self serving agenda.

 

ME! Muahahahahaha!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Great points andy. What would compel the mages to fight the Qunari?

With the chantry gone, the power vacuum will just likely be filled by another organisation / person with a self serving agenda.

 

Mages will most probably want to fight the Qunari. I don't think any of them wants to be on a leash with lips sewn. 

 

One thing people tend to forget is the the Qun, for all its emphasis on purpose, roles and efficiency neglects the fundamental  biological drives of sentient creatures, which are self interest and individuality. 

 

We are all survival machines for our genes to replicate and propagate. Genes are very selfish. It is what it is. Trying to change nature itself using an ideology is like trying to make Lions eat carrots and goats to eat meat. 

 

Might work for a while but then it will fail. 

 

The Qun attempt to impose order on nature when nature, by its very nature is chaotic. It will and can only go so far before entropy sets in and the system either has to evolve or collapse.