170 réponses à ce sujet

[Estelindis]

Don't get me wrong, in the real world, this is repulsive, in a medieval setting?  Especially one set up to be as brutal as Thedas is?  Brutality answers brutality.

 

I do not want to go into real-world history or politics, but if you think that horrendous actions like these have not happened in the contemporary world or that medieval times knew no peace, kindness, or tolerance, then I think that you are misinformed.*  These are features of the human condition, not a particular historical period.  It is a mistake to think that we have annihilated the monsters inside ourselves, because then we start to believe that anything is permitted.  We are no longer medieval brutes but enlightened children of the future, so surely whatever we do is for the greater good...?

 

Any fantasy setting, medieval or otherwise, will engage with a range of good and evil across a wide spectrum if it wants to include people.  Whether said people are biologically "human" or not, they have to share the human condition in order to be accessible to us.

 

Nonetheless, it is not required that the very pit of what is worst in human beings has to be doable by the protagonist.  I know that I remember some people in Bioware stating in the past that, for instance, they didn't wish to give the protagonist the option to exhibit certain very hurtful prejudices that we can see in real life.  Even that is a far cry from wiping out a culture, so I don't see them enabling it.  And I'm very glad.  

 

*No, I will not be giving examples.  I said that I didn't want to go into real-world history or politics.

[Estelindis]

Mystery and faith are not values that will empower and drive a sentient species. It is a value that will instead stunt the said species. 

 

Mystery and faith are primitive and archaic values. Mystery and faith are things that are valued by people who wish to wonder, not to understand. Mystery and faith are things that are valued by people who wish to deify, not to learn. Mystery and faith are things that are valued by people who wish to live lives of statism as opposed to evolving and improving. 

 

To quote House :- Faith...that is another word for ignorance isn't it ? Faith isn't based on logic and experience.

 

While you are entitled to your views, you are insulting a lot of real people.  As I said up-thread, I don't think that posts like these are helpful to Dragon Age discussion.  I don't see the thread staying open for long if it continues like this.  Mind you, it is the weekend, so I guess even material like this might continue to be posted for a few days.

[Vilegrim]

I do not want to go into real-world history or politics, but if you think that horrendous actions like these have not happened in the contemporary world or that medieval times knew no peace, kindness, or tolerance, then I think that you are misinformed.*  These are features of the human condition, not a particular historical period.  It is a mistake to think that we have annihilated the monsters inside ourselves, because then we start to believe that anything is permitted.  We are no longer medieval brutes but enlightened children of the future, so surely whatever we do is for the greater good...?

 

Any fantasy setting, medieval or otherwise, will engage with a range of good and evil across a wide spectrum if it wants to include people.  Whether said people are biologically "human" or not, they have to share the human condition in order to be accessible to us.

 

Nonetheless, it is not required that the very pit of what is worst in human beings has to be doable by the protagonist.  I know that I remember some people in Bioware stating in the past that, for instance, they didn't wish to give the protagonist the option to exhibit certain very hurtful prejudices that we can see in real life.  Even that is a far cry from wiping out a culture, so I don't see them enabling it.  And I'm very glad.  

 

*No, I will not be giving examples.  I said that I didn't want to go into real-world history or politics.

 

 

Religion =/= Culture, and that is all I think is safe to say on that.

[wright1978]

Can't really see how the chantry can be dismantled overnight given the breadth of the faith. I do want to try and remove any military element or any control over mages from it and ideally ensure there are checks in place to limit political interference.

[Vilegrim]

I do not want to go into real-world history or politics, but if you think that horrendous actions like these have not happened in the contemporary world or that medieval times knew no peace, kindness, or tolerance, then I think that you are misinformed.*  These are features of the human condition, not a particular historical period.  It is a mistake to think that we have annihilated the monsters inside ourselves, because then we start to believe that anything is permitted.  We are no longer medieval brutes but enlightened children of the future, so surely whatever we do is for the greater good...?

 

Any fantasy setting, medieval or otherwise, will engage with a range of good and evil across a wide spectrum if it wants to include people.  Whether said people are biologically "human" or not, they have to share the human condition in order to be accessible to us.

 

Nonetheless, it is not required that the very pit of what is worst in human beings has to be doable by the protagonist.  I know that I remember some people in Bioware stating in the past that, for instance, they didn't wish to give the protagonist the option to exhibit certain very hurtful prejudices that we can see in real life.  Even that is a far cry from wiping out a culture, so I don't see them enabling it.  And I'm very glad.  

 

*No, I will not be giving examples.  I said that I didn't want to go into real-world history or politics.

 

 

We already have genocide and internment as themes, established in the treatment of the Elves, and to an extent the mages, having placed those themes front and centre of Inquisition why should I not be able to use them?

[Who Knows]

Dismantle altogether. I think there are inherent problems with proselytizing, and they end up forcing people to convert through Exalted Marches and the like. In practice, it's not a religion that is fully tolerant with others not believing.

[SolNebula]

Dismantle let's return to the Old Gods.

[Estelindis]

Religion =/= Culture, and that is all I think is safe to say on that.

 

I am surprised that you think that the Avvar and Dalish - whose treatment by the Chantry you see as commensurate with a subsequent, theoretical obliteration of Chantry by your Inquisitor - aren't cultures.  I disagree.  However, I am more than happy to drop the discussion, so if that's all you think is safe to say, let's leave it there.

 

Edit: apparently, you didn't leave it there, but quoted my post twice to say two small things?

 

We already have genocide and internment as themes, established in the treatment of the Elves, and to an extent the mages, having placed those themes front and centre of Inquisition why should I not be able to use them?

 

 

Firstly, I don't believe that Dragon Age is intended to be an atrocity simulator.  Some dark choices are allowed, but the writers have shown no evidence of wanting to take things this dark.  Secondly, as several of us have already stated, if this choice was allowed, the world-states at the end of the game would be too different to allow subsequent games.  I do not wish to keep repeating myself, so I'll leave it there.

[Rolling Flame]

Dismantle let's return to the Old Gods.

 

Most of them are dead.

[Vilegrim]

I am surprised that you think that the Avvar and Dalish - whose treatment by the Chantry you see as commensurate with a subsequent, theoretical obliteration of Chantry by your Inquisitor - aren't cultures.  I disagree.  However, I am more than happy to drop the discussion, so if that's all you think is safe to say, let's leave it there.

 

 

agreed, we could continue this by PM if you like.

[Estelindis]

agreed, we could continue this by PM if you like.

 

Sure thing.  PM sent.  

[Rogue Roxy]

Since I intend to play as many possibilities as available over the course of a year (or two??), I fully intend to do both.

 

But, I suppose my first play will be to reform the Chantry, and try to appease as many followers, and other groups, as I can until I die of a brain haemorrhage caused by all of the whining and complaining from those not getting enough full support. Then, I'll likely end up killing all of them and saving the world solo. *shrug* 

[SolNebula]

Most of them are dead.

 

Not all of them. Andraste religion need to die. Bigots who fear magic.

[Jaison1986]

What I want to do with the Chantry would neither be an reform or an dismantlement. I would vote from utterly removing them from power. No roots with the law or the royalty. No organized military power behind them, no control over mages (let an neutral party handle them), what I propose is reducing them to current state of real world religions such as christianity. They would be dedicated to practice their worship on their deity, but have no power over politics, military or the right to attack anyone that refuses to worship their god.

[Catche Jagger]

I would choose to reform the Chantry, if only because trying to dismantle such a large organization that has become ingrained in the lives of so many people across Thedas would take at least a few decades.

Even then, it's quite likely that some other organization would rise up to fill the void.

[Grieving Natashina]

Reform certainly (if I get the choice anyway). I'm not going to destroy peoples religeous freedoms by, well, destroying their religeous organisation but there are certainly some things the chantry ought to change. For instance a bit less of the fear mongering of mages and bringing back the elf Shartan into the story of Andraste.

Nicely said Doc.  Those were my thoughts and feelings exactly.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

I'd dismantle it and make more brothels and hair salons.

[OriginOfWaves]

don't see the point, Chantry is already undergoing reform that began in Asunder. the Nevarran Accord is annulled, separating both the Templars and the Seekers of Truth from the Chantry. The Divine showing support for the mages in the White Spire by knowingly aiding in their escape and investigating a possibility of  reversing the  Rite of Tranquility. that already sounds like reform to me.

[Rawgrim]

If I get the oppertunity I will enforce stricter rules. Give those insane mages ALOT less freedom to practice their blood-magic.

[godModeAlpha]

ME! Muahahahahaha!

 

Was thinking the same thing too ... Just like becoming the King of Ferelden 

[ReallyRue]

Probably reform.

 

For one thing, I'd rather a religion be about faith/spirituality and have less political power than the Chantry. What happens to the mages for example, should have nothing to do with the Chantry. If people want to follow its guidance about how to live their lives, then they should be able to, but it shouldn't be able to interfere in the lives of those who don't want it.

[TheTurtle]

I would reform it not dismantle.I think one thing that is important to remember is that most of Thedas follows the Chantry even if it varies fron country to country. If you try to dismantle or in some peoples cases obliterate you won't only be going against the Chantry you'll be going against a lot of regular folk as well. Plus I don't think Bioware is going to give you the power to start a holy war for shits and giggles.