45 réponses à ce sujet

[DrBlingzle]

So the basic theory is allowing mages who do not want to take their harrowing, the opportunity to be "possessed" by (or "bonded" with, whatever you want to call it) a spirit, like Wynne was (Alongside the options of death or tranquillity). As far as I'm aware this completely stops the risk of a mage being possessed by a demon because when Wynne confronts the desire demon possessing Connor in the fade, she says something like: "you cannot take me demon, I have been claimed by another" (I'm paraphrasing completely here, I'll try to get the exact quote soon). Wynne herself does not say that the experience is uncomfortable and in fact expresses its feeling of warmth and safety. The spirit does not seem to control or influence her in any way and only seems to want to see our world through a mortal being. The spirit does not increase her destructive abilities and in fact only increases her healing ability which could be very useful to mages and the people they are around.
(Minor spoiler for Asunder):

Spoiler

Indeed in Asunder when Rhys is talking to the divine he claims that the solution to this particular problem could be solved by using spirits. It’s unlikely he was thinking of this particular theory but still.

I'm not even sure if this would work but I just thought it would be intersting to see it discussed.

 

So what do you think? Would it work? Is it even possible? How would the spirits be gained to perform the "possession"? Is it too dangerous that a demon might claim the mage instead? If it could/should be done how should it be carried out (On every mage who doesn’t want to take the harrowing, any mage who volunteers, it should be forced on every single mage, etc,etc)? And is it moral?

 

Please discuss respectably.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

This is an interesting idea but I really can't see the Chantry/Circles going along with it, would they differentiate between a demon and a spirit or would possession by anther being, regardless of which type be seen as negative. I think it would be.

 

And not all spirit possession works out well for the 'host'. Look at Anders and Justice, they pretty much corrupted the other. Though I do see where you are coming from when it comes to Wynne because she was able to live in relative harmony with her spirit. I think it may all depend on the spirit and the person, obviously some just don't mesh well together. 

 

All in all, I really couldn't see neither the Chantry nor the Circles going for it, that is assuming that this option was meant to be offered to Mages in the Circle and not free Mages. And as we have seen, disastrous things can happen when a spirit inhabits a Mage -- Anders.

[Jorina Leto]

Do you remember Anders?
This is a bad idea!

[Feybrad]

Look at Anders. See how that worked out. That's right, a Chantry got blown up and the Mage-Templar-War started. That was one Man. Now think about the Effects of a whole Bunch of emotionally unstable Mages fearing the Harrowing choosing to host a Spirit instead. Just how many Spirits of Justice would become Demons of Vengeance?

 

By the Way, I would really like to see how a Demon of Vengeance would look like in the Fade / outside of a Host. What is his true Form (like the Lava Blob of Wrath or the spiky four Eyed Gorilla of Pride)?

[Gorguz]

I thought the same op, and I even suspect that the ancient elves achieved immortality that way. Although, uthenera kinda proves me wrong. Unless in the ritual the dreamer is unbonded from the spirit.

[AresKeith]

Iirc Spirits don't normally want to possess people, and it's not always a good idea

Look at Anders

[Giubba]

Iirc Spirits don't normally want to possess people, and it's not always a good idea

Look at Anders

 

Anders did what he die because he was Anders.

 

Actualy it was Justice that take the short end of the stick being "perverted" by Anders' overwhelming need of vengeance against chantry in a deamon of Vengence.

[Lucijenifer]

Beings dedicated to a single concept are not balanced. From Faith and Justice to Pride and Desire, all of them are harmful in the wrong situation - and all of them are potentially beneficial in the right ones. Faith and Justice just so happen to lean towards positive whilst Pride and Desire are more negative.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Don't mages cause enough problem now? Why give them powerful upgrade and made them even more unstable than before?

 

i have best alternative it is death everyone is happy and 0 complaints.

[wickedgoodreed]

Without knowing Wynne prior to her possession, I don't think we can say with certainty that the spirit had no influence over her. Even if we assume that's true, it's possible that Wynne was only able to maintain self-control because she was already a disciplined, harrowed mage with a great deal of willpower. The same can't be said for most of the candidates for tranquility.

[mikeymoonshine]

Anders did what he die because he was Anders.

 

Actualy it was Justice that take the short end of the stick being "perverted" by Anders' overwhelming need of vengeance against chantry in a deamon of Vengence.

 

So how do we tell which mages are like Anders and which are not? Surely spirits of justice are not the only one's who can e perverted anyway. 

[Giubba]

Justice was weird even before DA2. He got immediately attached to Cristoff's wife and his life. The signs were already showing. He didn't belong here.

 

hmm not exactly Justice was initialy caught up with the classic amazement that being of the fade feel when they visit the mortal world. left alone in a dead body he probably never become a Vengence deamon (maybe another kind), it was the direct symbiosis with a leaving human that did the trick of his "fall from grace".

 

I think that potentialy possession from a spirt that truly rapresent the inner character of the possesed would go more smoothly for both.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I doubt the Chantry in general is "happy" with that either. They believe the mages are still the Maker's children. They're not witchhunters.

Well to be honest i don't think that most of chantry members would cry because of that it seems that chantry rly don't care as long circles matter aren't in their way so well... not mention that i won't ask them for permission.

 

Besides chantry is nothing more than peoples and peoples will follow system change that what should be easy now because old system fell and mages tore veil what would be easy to tell peoples even if they didn't and they did...

[Giubba]

So how do we tell which mages are like Anders and which are not? Surely spirits of justice are not the only one's who can e perverted anyway. 

 

In fact the OP idea it's not doable, at least in my opinion.

 

It has the potential of solving the problem but it something too situational for being a safe and final solution.

[Giubba]

Without knowing Wynne prior to her possession, I don't think we can say with certainty that the spirit had no influence over her. Even if we assume that's true, it's possible that Wynne was only able to maintain self-control because she was already a disciplined, harrowed mage with a great deal of willpower. The same can't be said for most of the candidates for tranquility.

Spoiler

In fact if you read asunder Wynne did change in the years that pass since Origins end. She became more aloof and distincly more cold toward other people.
I've always guessed that this was due to the influence of the faith spirit, it was nothing evil but even a spirit that match more closely the character of the person he possess bring some change in the host psyke.

[wickedgoodreed]

Spoiler

In fact if you read asunder Wynne did change in the years that pass since Origins end. She became more aloof and distincly more cold toward other people.
I've always guessed that this was due to the influence of the faith spirit, it was nothing evil but even a spirit that match more closely the character of the person he possess bring some change in the host psyke.

Interesting! This make me more skeptical of the idea then. It seems even in the best of scenarios with a benevolent spirit and capable host, the individual loses part of themselves to the merger.

[Giubba]

I'm not sure.

 

It's already bad enough for him being from the Fade. Spirits are used to shaping things at will. He's at a disadvantage in this world, since we shape things through process here. Sometimes very slow processes. And for him to be fixated and singleminded on the concept of "Justice", this would be extremely frustrating for him. Just like slow processes frustrate anyone with a mind for Justice. But for him, it'd be unbearable. I can already see him becoming a Vengeance demon just because of this alone.

 

Imho no.

 

Without a mortal complex mind and moral Justice would have simply acted as a superhero bringing "justice" (a world filled with innocent or culprit no middle ground) to every misgiving he would have encountered in his voyage.

[Giubba]

Interesting! This make me more skeptical of the idea then. It seems even in the best of scenarios with a benevolent spirit and capable host, the individual loses part of themselves to the merger.

 

Lose is a too strong term, i think that if a spirit is influnced by his host psyke so the host is influenced by the spirit character aggravating or spiking certain aspect of his character

[Maria Caliban]

The majority of spirits aren't interested in the mortal realm, nor would they be interested in bonding with a human. Recall that Wynne talked about drawing life from the spirit but weakening it in the process.

Not to mention that there's no way to know if the given creature you're interacting with is a spirit or a demon. What if that Spirit of Hope you just stuffed in a young mage was actually a Sloth Demon in disguise?