32 réponses à ce sujet

[myahele]

Wow I never really thought too much of the downsizing of Seekers. I always thought they were mostly comprised of elite templars.

That may be the reason why there's so few.

[Gervaise]

I was sort of playing devil's advocate so as to try and explain how the writers managed to explain it.    Personally I would have thought that a huge magical bomb blowing up the Chantry and killing the Grand Cleric would have been the cue for a big investigation, replacement of senior figures not already dead, etc, but clearly it didn't happen.   I was surprised at the time when it turned out Cassandra was interrogating Varric 2 years later, not immediately after, which would have made far more sense, with Hawke making themselves scarce regardless of which side they chose at the end because of their previous association with Anders but if they supported the Templars, may be Cullen warning them that it might be a good idea to disappear for a while.

[Mistic]

It's not just about investigating the abuse of the mages necessarily, but other factors that made the Circle dysfunctional. Like, "why do the general populace and nobles hate the Templars so much, would it have anything to do with Meredith dissolving the local government?" or "Why are there so many insubordinate Templars in the Kirkwall Circle". In an ideal world, where Meredith was afraid to touch the Champion at all, they could have targeted Hawke and the known apostates that followed him/her.

 

And that's opening a political can of worms.

 

The events of 9:22, when Viscount Perrin was deposed and killed, are shady as hell and there were a lot of actors involved in an issue of Chantry interference in political matters. It's like a crime story:

 

Viscount Perrin is making trouble by charging large fees to Orlesian ships. The Divine, a good friend of the emperor, uses the Templars to pressure him, although the Knight-Commander Guylian is not happy because he thinks that Templars shouldn't interfere. Alas, as usual, the moderates are the first to fall. The Viscount has him arrested and executed. Then Meredith rallies the Templars and storms the keep. Grand Cleric Elthina, yes, that one, has Perrin tried and imprisoned, and he dies mysteriously enough two years later by poisoning. The nobles are promised that they will choose their new ruler, but in the end the Chantry appoints Marlowe Dumar to serve as an ineffectual figurehead.

 

There was so much wrong in 9:22 involving the Chantry higher-ups in Kirkwall, up to Divine Beatrix III, that it's likely that many would consider that having Seekers investigating things in the city could open a can of worms. Of course, the Mage-Templar War ended up being a much more serious danger, but the higher-ups were probably thinking about the diplomatic scandal, not about "another typical mage-templar regional tension".

[The Baconer]

And that's opening a political can of worms.

 

The events of 9:22, when Viscount Perrin was deposed and killed, are shady as hell and there were a lot of actors involved in an issue of Chantry interference in political matters. It's like a crime story:

 

Viscount Perrin is making trouble by charging large fees to Orlesian ships. The Divine, a good friend of the emperor, uses the Templars to pressure him, although the Knight-Commander Guylian is not happy because he thinks that Templars shouldn't interfere. Alas, as usual, the moderates are the first to fall. The Viscount has him arrested and executed. Then Meredith rallies the Templars and storms the keep. Grand Cleric Elthina, yes, that one, has Perrin tried and imprisoned, and he dies mysteriously enough two years later by poisoning. The nobles are promised that they will choose their new ruler, but in the end the Chantry appoints Marlowe Dumar to serve as an ineffectual figurehead.

 

There was so much wrong in 9:22 involving the Chantry higher-ups in Kirkwall, up to Divine Beatrix III, that it's likely that many would consider that having Seekers investigating things in the city could open a can of worms. Of course, the Mage-Templar War ended up being a much more serious danger, but the higher-ups were probably thinking about the diplomatic scandal, not about "another typical mage-templar regional tension".

 

Yes, Beatrix's condition toward the end of her life made it easy for some high-up figures in the Chantry to get knee-deep in some dirty ****. This actually sounds like a complex issue to fix. If you sever the Seekers' ties to the Chantry, how will the organization receive proper funding? Where will they get an adequate amount of suitable recruits? Would the Chantry decide to not recognize their authority in situations where they would be inconvenienced (or the countries in which they would operate)? I guess the simplest solution would be to allow the Lord Seeker to authorize and conduct investigations without having to receive permission from the Divine or Grand Clerics -- and without needing to let them know that there is an investigation at all.

 

 

Hopefully most of those bad apples will be microwaved in the Fade tear event, or it'll be more work for me.

[Mistic]

Yes, Beatrix's condition toward the end of her life made it easy for some high-up figures in the Chantry to get knee-deep in some dirty ****. This actually sounds like a complex issue to fix. If you sever the Seekers' ties to the Chantry, how will the organization receive proper funding? Where will they get an adequate amount of suitable recruits? Would the Chantry decide to not recognize their authority in situations where they would be inconvenienced (or the countries in which they would operate)? I guess the simplest solution would be to allow the Lord Seeker to authorize and conduct investigations without having to receive permission from the Divine or Grand Clerics -- and without needing to let them know that there is an investigation at all.

 

 

Hopefully most of those bad apples will be microwaved in the Fade tear event, or it'll be more work for me.

 

On the other hand, giving too much freedom to the Seekers causes situations like Lambert's.

 

Lord Seeker Lambert was given control of the White Spire to investigate the assassination attempt on the Divine. The Knight-Commander was relieved, because either he was incompetent enough to allow a potential murderer near the Divine or he was involved in the conspiracy. At first Lambert did it well. He found out disturbing things, like the murders that the Templars were trying to silence, and made it clear that he had complete authority over the Templars. Yet, the moment Wynne appeared with her story about a potential cure for Tranquility, he forgot his duty and started interfering, including plans to have Wynne and the others killed before they could inform the Divine. The assassination attempt? Never brought up again.

[azarhal]

 

In the aftermath, Cullen was the one left in charge.   He would have made a report, which would have included the fact that Meredith went insane and thus justified his stand against her.

 

It seems that whatever report(s) was sent to Val-Royaux didn't mention Meredith going insane or someone doctored them, because Cassandra never really took that into consideration until the end of her interrogation. Or no report was sent (or they were lost) and everyone was too busy with Lambert/Circles and Orlais Civil war (it started in 9:37 too) to investigate Kirkwall and see what was happening there until Cassandra shows up 3 years later. All of Cassandra's knowledge was based on stories.

 

And that's opening a political can of worms.

 

The events of 9:22, when Viscount Perrin was deposed and killed, are shady as hell and there were a lot of actors involved in an issue of Chantry interference in political matters. It's like a crime story:

 

Viscount Perrin is making trouble by charging large fees to Orlesian ships. The Divine, a good friend of the emperor, uses the Templars to pressure him, although the Knight-Commander Guylian is not happy because he thinks that Templars shouldn't interfere. Alas, as usual, the moderates are the first to fall. The Viscount has him arrested and executed. Then Meredith rallies the Templars and storms the keep. Grand Cleric Elthina, yes, that one, has Perrin tried and imprisoned, and he dies mysteriously enough two years later by poisoning. The nobles are promised that they will choose their new ruler, but in the end the Chantry appoints Marlowe Dumar to serve as an ineffectual figurehead.

 

There was so much wrong in 9:22 involving the Chantry higher-ups in Kirkwall, up to Divine Beatrix III, that it's likely that many would consider that having Seekers investigating things in the city could open a can of worms. Of course, the Mage-Templar War ended up being a much more serious danger, but the higher-ups were probably thinking about the diplomatic scandal, not about "another typical mage-templar regional tension".

 

You know what is funny about 9:21, it is that events that caused Knight-Commander Martel and the Grand Cleric of Orlais to plan Beatrix III assassination and replacement. That's the reasons he used to Cassandra in their fight in Dawn of the Seeker.

 

In fact, that single event, Viscount Perrin trying to push the Templars out of Kirkwall in 9:21, resulted in:

- Meredith becoming Knight-Commander and turning the Gallows (and Kirkwall) into a power keg

- Anders blowing up the Kirkwall Chantry because of how mage are dealt with in the Gallows

- Martel dealing with a blood mage to kill the Divine which resulted into increased mage hatred (and a paranoiac Divine)

- Cassandra becoming Right Hand of the Divine by stopping Martel

 

I feel like Cassandra screwed who ever is manipulating events in the background in 9:22 and its looks like she is going to do it again in 9:40.

[Scorpius]

Wait I thought Celene was the Empress of Orlais at the time of Perrin's attempted coup.

[Mistic]

Wait I thought Celene was the Empress of Orlais at the time of Perrin's attempted coup.

 

Yeah, it sounds strange, but it could have a very easy explanation.

 

First, countries have interests that tend to outlast the rulers themselves. So what Emperor Florian started might have been continued by Empress Celene. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

Perrin Threnhold became Viscount in 9:14. That gives him 6 years to annoy the Emperor so that he would ask the Divine for help. Celene became Empress in 9:20, and in 9:21 Perrin had the Knight-Commander executed. Actually, he may have thought that a change in the Orlesian throne, from the warmonger Florian to the diplomatic Celene, would mean that he could take down the Templars without fearing repercussions. Bad move.