109 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Every time I see this thread pushed back to the top it feels like salt in the wound reminding me that once the content in this game gets old, it's going on the shelf to probably never be played again.    Every week hundreds of new Skyrim mods come out and 3 years later that game has no signs of aging.  It's a shame Inquisition won't take a sip from the modding elixir of eternal life.

 

I don't know about you, but for me Skyrim got old after a week. Even an infinite amount of mods wouldn't fix that, unless it was the most involved "create actual people and story" since New Vegas, namely, Obsidian re-tweeking the entire thing. 

[Shapeshifter777]

I don't know about you, but for me Skyrim got old after a week. Even an infinite amount of mods wouldn't fix that, unless it was the most involved "create actual people and story" since New Vegas, namely, Obsidian re-tweeking the entire thing. 

 

What would you say was the primary reason Skyrim got old after a week for?

[Elhanan]

What would you say was the primary reason Skyrim got old after a week for?

Only speaking for myself, but Skyrim was my first Sandbox game, and I normally play story driven RPG's like the ones from Bioware. The lessened approach for dialogue options, storyline, and lesser Companion AI, pathing, and ideas of romance were somewhat disappointing initially. It was when I switched to a different pair of eyes as it were that I began to enjoy Skyrim more for what it was than what it was not.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I've never found that mods can "keep a game fresh". I agree that mods are very useful for fixing bugs, restoring content or tinkering with the aesthetic of the game, but as far as content is concerned the mod versions I've always found inferior (at least in Bioware games).

I don't typically use mods for that.  I use mods to make the game better out of the box.  I want to improve the game - to make it the game I wanted in the first place - and then play that game again and again.

 

That's why I modded DAO, and it worked.  I tried to do the same with DA2, but was unable to improve the game sufficiently that it became enjoyable.

[TurretSyndrome]

Mods help replayability too. I would never have replayed DA:O as many times as I did if I did not have access to mods. The better textures, the dog slot, the Advanced Tactics with more commands, the character customization mods etc just increase the overall quality of the game. Mods allow you to have all the little things you usually miss in the game and that's important.

[addiction21]

Mods help replayability too. I would never have replayed DA:O as many times as I did if I did not have access to mods. The better textures, the dog slot, the Advanced Tactics with more commands, the character customization mods etc just increase the overall quality of the game. Mods allow you to have all the little things you usually miss in the game and that's important.

 

Yes mods add things.

 

 

Here is the Dynamic you buy a game and that is it.

 

They make a game and you buy it that is all. That is the interacation and nothing more. They provide the product that's it.

[TurretSyndrome]

Here is the Dynamic you buy a game and that is it.

 

They make a game and you buy it that is all. That is the interacation and nothing more. They provide the product that's it.

 

Did I ever imply that the developers needed to go beyond that? I don't need you sermonizing what I already know. 

[Realmzmaster]

Every time I see this thread pushed back to the top it feels like salt in the wound reminding me that once the content in this game gets old, it's going on the shelf to probably never be played again.    Every week hundreds of new Skyrim mods come out and 3 years later that game has no signs of aging.  It's a shame Inquisition won't take a sip from the modding elixir of eternal life.

 

The problem I have with Elder Scroll games is that many of the mods are to fix errors in the basic game design. One of the most downloaded mods was Skyrim UI which simply meant that Bethesda did not bother to optimize the game for the PC.

 

In my case all the mods in the world could not make me want to play Oblivion again. I played Morrowind several times (never used mods). Gamers complained about the repetitive environments in DA2. Oblivion (for me) was the poster child of repetitive environments especially the gates. 

 

Why in all but one of the Elder Scroll (Daggerfall) games does the protagonist start as a prisoner?

[Realmzmaster]

A modding kit would be nice for those who wish to use it. The problem is that creating a mod kit that is consumer ready costs resources especially time and money. Time because Bioware will have to make workarounds for any third party software that is used. Money because employees want to be paid for their work.

 

In software development (in fact any development) there is a budget. Bioware's thinking is that 100% of that budget should go to making the best game possible for all platforms.

 

It would be nice if Bioware made the game mod-friendly if that is possible. It may not be as possible with the Frostbite 3 engine. Before any says well why not use a different engine that is mod friendly?

That boils down to simple economics. EA owns D.I.C.E who created the Frostbite engine. Why would EA pay someone else for their engine (along with royalties) when EA already has an engine in one of its divisions.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The problem I have with Elder Scroll games is that many of the mods are to fix errors in the basic game design. One of the most downloaded mods was Skyrim UI which simply meant that Bethesda did not bother to optimize the game for the PC.

In my case all the mods in the world could not make me want to play Oblivion again. I played Morrowind several times (never used mods). Gamers complained about the repetitive environments in DA2. Oblivion (for me) was the poster child of repetitive environments especially the gates.

Why in all but one of the Elder Scroll (Daggerfall) games does the protagonist start as a prisoner?

I thought it was like that in all of them.

But I'll admit Daggerfall is the only one I haven't played (and Skyrim is the first one since Arena that I've liked).

Starting as a prisoner is an easy way to force you to start in some specific location without writing any of your backstory. And that they don't write the backstory is one of the greatest strengths of TES.

[nici2412]

How big are the chances to get some long hair mods in Inquisition/with the frostbite engine?

[In Exile]

What would you say was the primary reason Skyrim got old after a week for?

 

The game was not reactive. I had to effectively headcannon my way to diversity. It was a sandbox that felt like a sandbox. Contrast it with Fallout NV: Obsidian worked hard to create a world that truly feels like it reacts to your actions. I have lots of problems with NV insofar as character interaction is concerned - I do not think Obsidian did a very good job of that - but in terms of crafting reactivity at the quest-level they were phenomenal (see Alpha Protocol for another example).  

 

I don't typically use mods for that.  I use mods to make the game better out of the box.  I want to improve the game - to make it the game I wanted in the first place - and then play that game again and again.

 

That's why I modded DAO, and it worked.  I tried to do the same with DA2, but was unable to improve the game sufficiently that it became enjoyable.

 

I agree with you entirely (at least in theory). I find DA2 is nigh unplayable now without, for example, opening up the talent and weapon trees to all NPCs. And certainly I would be very aggravated without, say, the follower armor customization mod.  

 

Starting as a prisoner is an easy way to force you to start in some specific location without writing any of your backstory. And that they don't write the backstory is one of the greatest strengths of TES.

 

Being a prisoner is quite restrictive: I have to invent a reason for having been arrested. That's different even from an ostensibly more involved origin ala BG1 (where in theory had a lengthy life at Candlekeep, and your BG1 "information" page had a basic outline of a background for you). Even so, I find this "you grew up in x" but otherwise we are staying vague about it (which NWN2 also used) is an acceptable approach to a set starting point. DA:O's origins, IMO, are better. 

 

But something that requires a particular act - being arrested and convicted, however that happens - I very much dislike. It requires a lot of mental gymnastics to justify. 

[Realmzmaster]

I thought it was like that in all of them.

But I'll admit Daggerfall is the only one I haven't played (and Skyrim is the first one since Arena that I've liked).

Starting as a prisoner is an easy way to force you to start in some specific location without writing any of your backstory. And that they don't write the backstory is one of the greatest strengths of TES.

 

It is also one of the weaknesses (to some) of TES. Why is the protagonistI a prisoner? In Arena you are given a reason why the protagonist is a prisoner. The protagonist was captured and imprisoned by Jager Tham. The protagonist is seen as a minor part of the Imperial Court. Therefore not a threat. Most prisoners are had done something or are a threat to someone.

 

Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim do not even tell the gamer why the protagonist is a prisoner. I can see why some find it a strength because they can headcanon the backstory and come up with a reason why the protagonist is a prisoner.

Others may find it a weakness because they have to devise a backstory that makes sense within the world at the beginning without knowing much about the world. What constituents a crime in Skyrim (especially if it is the first TES game the person has played).

 

The gamer would have to assume that what he/she knows about the law applies to the TES world.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Being a prisoner is quite restrictive: I have to invent a reason for having been arrested. That's different even from an ostensibly more involved origin ala BG1 (where in theory had a lengthy life at Candlekeep, and your BG1 "information" page had a basic outline of a background for you). Even so, I find this "you grew up in x" but otherwise we are staying vague about it (which NWN2 also used) is an acceptable approach to a set starting point. DA:O's origins, IMO, are better.

But something that requires a particular act - being arrested and convicted, however that happens - I very much dislike. It requires a lot of mental gymnastics to justify.

In Skyrim I found it very easy. It's a border crossing during a civil war. It could be that anyone trying to cross there at that time was simply deemed guilty by association. Maybe there's an approved list of travellers, and you're not on it, and anyone crossing the border without permission is automatically deemed a traitor.

The best part about how Skyrim handles this is that the PC isn't even ever expected to know why he was arrested, so it doesn't need to be a significant part of the backstory. It's just a significant part of that day.

Oblivion, on the other hand, was a mess. The main plot hook is provided by the guy who imprisoned you, and you're given the opportunity to ask why you've been imprisoned, a question he reruses to answer. So, given that you've been imprisoned, might not have any idea why, and the guy who did it won't tell you, why would you trust him and do as he says? And yet, that's exactly what you have to do if you're ever going to see the main quest.

The reason I like Skyrim's starting point is the same reason I like NWN's and KotOR's. All you're given is a location, with any background beyond that or motive for being there left entirely up to you.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim do not even tell the gamer why the protagonist is a prisoner. I can see why some find it a strength because they can headcanon the backstory and come up with a reason why the protagonist is a prisoner.
Others may find it a weakness because they have to devise a backstory that makes sense within the world at the beginning without knowing much about the world. What constituents a crime in Skyrim (especially if it is the first TES game the person has played).

The gamer would have to assume that what he/she knows about the law applies to the TES world.

I don't think that's true. I'll agree that Morrowind and Oblivion both handled this badly, but Skyrim gives you all the information you need before character creation. You were apprehended at a border crossing that appears to have been there just to catch Ulfric. The other prisoners don't know who you are, so you weren't with them. Everything else is up to you. You could have been leaving Skyrim. You could have been entering Skyrim. Your reasons are never investigated. Maybe you're a criminal. Maybe you're not. Just about the only thing you can't be is an Imperial soldier that the border guards should recognise.

[Mirrman70]

The reason I like Skyrim's starting point is the same reason I like NWN's and KotOR's. All you're given is a location, with any background beyond that or motive for being there left entirely up to you.

 

I think it is wierd that you like KotOR since it actually reveals your background towards the end of thegame

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think it is wierd that you like KotOR since it actually reveals your background towards the end of thegame

I don't think the reveal necessarily affects what sort of person my character is. So I'm still in control.

That background complements my headcanon, rather than conflicting with it.

KotOR2, on the other hand, is terrible in this respect. I hated KotOR2 for that.

[In Exile]

I think it is wierd that you like KotOR since it actually reveals your background towards the end of thegame

 

As Sylvius points out, the fact that your PC was Revan before a serious mind-wipe/alter by the Jedi doesn't mean very much, because it's quite easy to say that is no longer who you are as a person. Revan's background is not my character's background. 

 

I don't think the reveal necessarily affects what sort of person my character is. So I'm still in control.

That background complements my headcanon, rather than conflicting with it.

KotOR2, on the other hand, is terrible in this respect. I hated KotOR2 for that.

 

Obsidian loves introducing background features about a character in the late-game. They do it in New Vegas too, except through a DLC and (IMO) for no conceivable gain whatsoever. 

It is like they fell in love with the "discover your identity" plot of Torment, but forgot that this plot worked for PS:T because the PC had none of his memories. 

[In Exile]

In Skyrim I found it very easy. It's a border crossing during a civil war. It could be that anyone trying to cross there at that time was simply deemed guilty by association. Maybe there's an approved list of travellers, and you're not on it, and anyone crossing the border without permission is automatically deemed a traitor.

The best part about how Skyrim handles this is that the PC isn't even ever expected to know why he was arrested, so it doesn't need to be a significant part of the backstory. It's just a significant part of that day.

Oblivion, on the other hand, was a mess. The main plot hook is provided by the guy who imprisoned you, and you're given the opportunity to ask why you've been imprisoned, a question he reruses to answer. So, given that you've been imprisoned, might not have any idea why, and the guy who did it won't tell you, why would you trust him and do as he says? And yet, that's exactly what you have to do if you're ever going to see the main quest.

The reason I like Skyrim's starting point is the same reason I like NWN's and KotOR's. All you're given is a location, with any background beyond that or motive for being there left entirely up to you.

 

The problem with all of this is that I need a justifiable reason to have a character at the border. I don't know the setting, the story, or what the game allows, and yet I'm expected to craft a profile that will be consistent with what the game allows in the future. This is a serious problem, because the game might very well contradict my character concept in unforeseen ways. 

 

Morrowind is much, much worse about this... but also much better in some ways, because the ruleset is actually far more RP friendly that (IMO) Skyrim. 

[Realmzmaster]

I don't think that's true. I'll agree that Morrowind and Oblivion both handled this badly, but Skyrim gives you all the information you need before character creation. You were apprehended at a border crossing that appears to have been there just to catch Ulfric. The other prisoners don't know who you are, so you weren't with them. Everything else is up to you. You could have been leaving Skyrim. You could have been entering Skyrim. Your reasons are never investigated. Maybe you're a criminal. Maybe you're not. Just about the only thing you can't be is an Imperial soldier that the border guards should recognise.

 

What is the protagonist purpose for being at the border? I can see if the protagonist was hunting near the border or visiting someone in Skyrim. Why is the protagonist anywhere near Skyrim is my question.

[Sylvius the Mad]

What is the protagonist purpose for being at the border? I can see if the protagonist was hunting near the border or visiting someone in Skyrim. Why is the protagonist anywhere near Skyrim is my question.

My first Dragonborn was fleeing persecution on another Imperial territory.

My second Dragonborn was returning to Skyrim to make amends with her family after running away as a youth.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The problem with all of this is that I need a justifiable reason to have a character at the border. I don't know the setting, the story, or what the game allows, and yet I'm expected to craft a profile that will be consistent with what the game allows in the future. This is a serious problem, because the game might very well contradict my character concept in unforeseen ways.

It might. If it does, complain then. The game should give you all of the information you need to create a character before you actually create that character. This is one of the major benefits of documentation.

Morrowind is much, much worse about this... but also much better in some ways, because the ruleset is actually far more RP friendly that (IMO) Skyrim.

No argument there. Skyrim is probably the weakest TES game in terms of ruleset.

[Sylvius the Mad]

What is the protagonist purpose for being at the border?.

What would you like it to be?

I'd rather the game not decide that for me.

[Realmzmaster]

What would you like it to be?

I'd rather the game not decide that for me.

 

Actually if my protagonist knows that there is a civil war going on he/she would be nowhere near the border. I guess that is why I have only tested the game on a friend's computer. The game would end before it begins based on my head canon.

[Realmzmaster]

IMHO, I believe that more developers would offer modkits if the kits were not PC specific. If modkits were available for the consoles and could pass through certification more games may have modkits. Or if mods were made available to consoles (once again having to get through certification) more developers may invest in making them.

 

The other problem is that the demand for better technology (graphics, responsiveness etc)  in games causes an increase in size and complexity of the tools used. Those tools are then have to be consolidated into a form that is usable. The point is that a great deal of time and effort must be expended on the modders to learn the modkit to get reasonable results.

 

That means that mods may be delayed beyond what I like to call the golden point. If dlc, mods etc take to long to appear the gamer may remove the game from the hard drive and move on to other games.