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[Oni Changas]

I suppose it's easier to say such things if your species is not on the edge of extinction. Without the reaper code the geth simply have no future they could build...and "sticking to your principles whatever the cost is" is one concept the Geth logically wouldn't share. They knew they couldn't survive how they are, they changed.

The thing is, when the geth are expanded upon and deeply established as a whole in ME2, it's very hard to buy them doing a 180. It screams of "cheap rewrite" to me. Geth were a unique thing before and moreso that consensus mission contradicts what Legion tells us of The Morning War in ME2.

[dreamgazer]

Eh, it's no more "cheap" than turning the true geth into isolationists who weren't responsible for the Reaper-supportive heretic programs in ME1 and ME2.

 

Desperate times, desperate measures, desperate number-crunching. Self-preservation is a hell of a thing, especially in a cold synthetic consensus.

[Barquiel]

The thing is, when the geth are expanded upon and deeply established as a whole in ME2, it's very hard to buy them doing a 180. It screams of "cheap rewrite" to me. Geth were a unique thing before and moreso that consensus mission contradicts what Legion tells us of The Morning War in ME2.

 

Don't get me wrong, lore-wise I also think the ME2 geth are more interesting. The geth and the rachni were the two alien cultures that BW tried to make...truly alien.

 

But from an in-universe perspective, I understand why Legion (or the geth VI) accepted the reaper code. They were upgrading because they were still under attack in that scene... and even in ME2 it was shown that Legion's principles are fairly flexible when survival is involved, so its not that inconsistent. I found this much more believable than Mordins (as much as I love him) insistence that we have to cure the genophage now, especially with Wreav in power.

[Vortex13]

Don't get me wrong, lore-wise I also think the ME2 geth are more interesting. The geth and the rachni were the two alien cultures that BW tried to make...truly alien.

 

Its funny how quickly those two 'alien' races were either made like us, or given one little side quest and then ushered off camera, never to be seen again in ME 3.

 

All this build up of the Geth's perspective on organic life, and how they view non-synthetic life as different but no better then synthetic life; and then ME 3 Legion says how the Reaper code will make the Geth truly alive.

 

All of the aid that the Rachni are prepared to offer you is wiped clean by GM fiat, and rather then gaining Rachni soldiers to aid in the ground battles; or at least a Rachni presence in the war effort; we are given a few measly asset points for the Crucible, and the one remain alien culture is quietly swept under the rug.

 

[Barquiel]

Yeah...the Rachni really did not deserve to be swept aside as they were. But I suppose they were doomed from the moment where Shepard had the option to kill the queen.

[Vortex13]

Yeah...the Rachni really did not deserve to be swept aside as they were. But I suppose they were doomed from the moment where Shepard had the option to kill the queen.

 

 

True.

 

I'm just annoyed that one of the few 'alien' aliens in the setting was discarded so casually. I like science fiction for the alien side of things, and apart from the (ME 2) Geth, the Rachni were the only species in the ME setting that wasn't:

 

A ) A human in a rubber suit, like all of the other species were. Taking one facet of human culture and then tweaking it slightly doesn't an alien make.

 

B ) Evil monsters/jerks that wanted to kill/enslave everyone. The (Pre-Catalyst) Reapers and the Leviathans were alien in nature, but it was more an underlying aspect relating to how evil/antagonistic they were rather than anything that had depth.

[Humakt83]

And none here has thought that maybe Legion was partially compromised by the Reapers?

 

 

True.

 

I'm just annoyed that one of the few 'alien' aliens in the setting was discarded so casually. I like science fiction for the alien side of things, and apart from the (ME 2) Geth, the Rachni were the only species in the ME setting that wasn't:

 

A ) A human in a rubber suit, like all of the other species were. Taking one facet of human culture and then tweaking it slightly doesn't an alien make.

 

B ) Evil monsters/jerks that wanted to kill/enslave everyone. The (Pre-Catalyst) Reapers and the Leviathans were alien in nature, but it was more an underlying aspect relating to how evil/antagonistic they were rather than anything that had depth.

 

 

Hanar and Elcor? At least every species have alien capabilities, but culture-wise many do indeed feel too much like Americans in disguise.

[Vortex13]

Hanar and Elcor? At least every species have alien capabilities, but culture-wise many do indeed feel too much like Americans in disguise.

 

 

Oh don't get me started on ME's treatment of the Hanar and Elcor

 

The Hanar became a joke, as the biggest Hanar character we get in the whole trilogy is Blasto.

 

And the Elcor... they've become more of the setting's bumbling idiot then an actual interesting species. There is only one Elcor NPC in ME 3 that isn't used as a means to mock their slow, deliberate speach, and he is trying to find help evactuating his homeworld. Of course everyone except Shepard ignores him.  

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

fffffsssk... You're mocking me...fffffssssk... Earth clan!

[Farangbaa]

Oh don't get me started on ME's treatment of the Hanar and Elcor

 

The Hanar became a joke, as the biggest Hanar character we get in the whole trilogy is Blasto.

 

And the Elcor... they've become more of the setting's bumbling idiot then an actual interesting species. There is only one Elcor NPC in ME 3 that isn't used as a means to mock their slow, deliberate speach, and he is trying to find help evactuating his homeworld. Of course everyone except Shepard ignores him.  

 

The Hanar, without Mass Effect fields, look like this outside of their native environment:

 

How are they not supposed to be a joke?

[Vortex13]

The Hanar, without Mass Effect fields, look like this outside of their native environment:

 

-snip-

 

How are they not supposed to be a joke?

 

By the narrative not focusing on their differing appearance, and how it is inferior to our glorious humanoid form for one.

 

If you look at the Hanar characters in ME 1, you can see that it was less about how they looked, and more about their culture, their dual nature, and their general 'alien' nature.

 

Fast forward to ME 3, and its "BAHAHA! Look at the stupid jellyfish pretending to be a Spectre!"

[Farangbaa]

By the narrative not focusing on their differing appearance, and how it is inferior to our glorious humanoid form for one.
 
If you look at the Hanar characters in ME 1, you can see that it was less about how they looked, and more about their culture, their dual nature, and their general 'alien' nature.
 
Fast forward to ME 3, and its "BAHAHA! Look at the stupid jellyfish pretending to be a Spectre!"

You're right about that.

I kinda mistook your post for one of them "I want a Hanar squadmate!!!" posts

[dreamgazer]

By the narrative not focusing on their differing appearance, and how it is inferior to our glorious humanoid form for one.

 

If you look at the Hanar characters in ME 1, you can see that it was less about how they looked, and more about their culture, their dual nature, and their general 'alien' nature.

 

Fast forward to ME 3, and its "BAHAHA! Look at the stupid jellyfish pretending to be a Spectre!"

 

Except for the hanar who reveres Javik, as well as the indoctrinated diplomat who attempts to annihilate Kahje because of the Reapers' connection with the Enkindlers.  I do agree that they, along with the elcor, should have been a bit more prominent in ME3, though.

[Humakt83]

By the narrative not focusing on their differing appearance, and how it is inferior to our glorious humanoid form for one.

 

If you look at the Hanar characters in ME 1, you can see that it was less about how they looked, and more about their culture, their dual nature, and their general 'alien' nature.

 

Fast forward to ME 3, and its "BAHAHA! Look at the stupid jellyfish pretending to be a Spectre!"

 

Irksome "Big stupid jellyfish" line precisely originated from Mass Effect 1, and apparently enough fans liked it that the ham-fisted line was delivered twice more. And leave Blasto alone, he's a magnificent character even if he's comedy action movie hero.

[Barquiel]

Oh don't get me started on ME's treatment of the Hanar and Elcor
 
The Hanar became a joke, as the biggest Hanar character we get in the whole trilogy is Blasto.
 
And the Elcor... they've become more of the setting's bumbling idiot then an actual interesting species. There is only one Elcor NPC in ME 3 that isn't used as a means to mock their slow, deliberate speach, and he is trying to find help evactuating his homeworld. Of course everyone except Shepard ignores him.

That "not enough" line always gets me, he didn't even have to throw in an emotion setting prefix in there. But elcor and hanar are mostly joke races, that is true.
 

Its not its lack of replayability I find irking, its the whitewashing

I think it was necessary to show the geth perspective, especially after Bioware's blatant attempt to create symphaty for the quarians in ME2...and you don't have to believe everything they show you, of course.

But it wasn't that much of a whitewash, if you listen to what Tali tells you in ME1. And even if it's geth propaganda, it doesn't exactly ruin the mission for me (I probably love the quarians just as much as you love the asari).

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 "Big, stupid jellyfish" was an awesome line, mainly because that's exactly what hanar are. And getting to call the ridiculously-overrated Blasto one was among the best moments of Citadel DLC.

[DeinonSlayer]

That "not enough" line always gets me, he didn't even have to throw in an emotion setting prefix in there. But elcor and hanar are mostly joke races, that is true. I think it was necessary to show the geth perspective, especially after Bioware's blatant attempt to create symphaty for the quarians in ME2...and you don't have to believe everything they show you, of course.But it wasn't that much of a whitewash, if you listen to what Tali tells you in ME1. But even if it's geth propaganda, it doesn't exactly ruin the mission for me (I probably love the quarians just as much as you love the asari).

Noted, per your consistent defense of their hiding the beacon. At least you weren't the one mounting a lengthy defense of that one Asari's gang-initiation killing and subsequently pointing a weapon at Shepard in Samara's recruitment mission.

[Barquiel]

What has Elnora to do with the geth consensus mission?

[DeinonSlayer]

What has Elnora to do with the geth consensus mission?

Simply noting a past example of how far people have gone to defend their favorites.

[Barquiel]

I don't get it. Since when is Elnora a favorite of me? And the writers certainly didn't try to create sympathy for her (quite the opposite).

[dreamgazer]

The merc recruit on Illium ... a favorite?  Is that a thing?  There's hardly anything to her.

[DeinonSlayer]

I don't get it. Since when is Elnora a favorite of me? And the writers certainly didn't try to create sympathy for her (quite the opposite).

I never said she was a favorite to you. Xil, on the other hand, defended her for several pages in a different thread.

Didn't mean to take things off topic, simply made an observation.

[Barquiel]

The merc recruit on Illium ... a favorite?  Is that a thing?  There's hardly anything to her.

I don't know. I justified my decision to spare her a few weeks ago, but that didn't have much to do with Elnora herself. As you say, we don't know much about her.

Edit: ok

[Vortex13]

Except for the hanar who reveres Javik, as well as the indoctrinated diplomat who attempts to annihilate Kahje because of the Reapers' connection with the Enkindlers.  I do agree that they, along with the elcor, should have been a bit more prominent in ME3, though.

 

Well the indoctrinated Hanar mission is fairly lighthearted (with Kasumi alive) for a vanilla game quest. The diplomat is more of a bumbling idiot then an actual serious threat, despite the fate of an entire planet's population being at risk.

 

And the Hanar with Javik only had like 3 lines of dialogue; most of which were "This one is not worthy!"

 

A bit more prominent is putting it lightly (IMO), at best the Elcor, and Hanar got small cameos in ME 3, despite the game being about a galactic invasion, and the need for the races of the galaxy to band together.

 

 

Irksome "Big stupid jellyfish" line precisely originated from Mass Effect 1, and apparently enough fans liked it that the ham-fisted line was delivered twice more. And leave Blasto alone, he's a magnificent character even if he's comedy action movie hero.

 

I have no problem with Blasto, per say; he's like Conrad Verner, in the sense that he is a reoccurring joke in the series; my problem is that Blasto has become the "face" of the Hanar, thereby relegating them to joke/meme status. It would be like Conrad being the only prominent human we ever encounter in the trilogy.

 

Its not its lack of replayability I find irking, its the whitewashing

 

 

For me the ME 3 Geth treatment is slightly about this, but more about how they suddenly don't see themselves as being truly alive, and that only by becoming like us could they become whole.

 

I liked ME 2 Legion for his robotic (no pun intended), detached, and logical outlook on the Morning War. He admitted that the Geth did great harm to the Quarians in the war, but he never apologized or tried to justify it, he stated the outcome as a logical fact. The consensus mission in ME 3 is none too subtle about trying to justify the Geth's rebellion, and force the blame solely onto the Quarian's shoulders.

[DeinonSlayer]

For me the ME 3 Geth treatment is slightly about this, but more about how they suddenly don't see themselves as being truly alive, and that only by becoming like us could they become whole.

I liked ME 2 Legion for his robotic (no pun intended), detached, and logical outlook on the Morning War. He admitted that the Geth did great harm to the Quarians in the war, but he never apologized or tried to justify it, he stated the outcome as a logical fact. The consensus mission in ME 3 is none too subtle about trying to justify the Geth's rebellion, and force the blame solely onto the Quarian's shoulders.

What I'd have liked to say at the end of that mission when the Primes are revealed is, "if you were willing to lie about this, how can you expect me to believe anything else you showed me in there?" Heck, even the renegade option after the revelation of the lie makes Shepard chew out... the Quarians.

It's been said before: if the writing had half the subtlety that indoctrination theorists ascribed to it, the fact that this was a history presented by the Geth would by itself make it highly suspect. If we were expected to uncritically swallow what gets shovel-fed to us in there, ME3's writing had even bigger problems than I thought.