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[Livi14]

I thought the rannoch mission was quite nice in the way that it played out, and the reaper code upgrade fits with the overall theme of the geth (at least in my opinion). What started the war was a geth asking "does this unit have a soul?" The Reaper code made the geth true AIs, they became truly alive which was the question that started the entire war. The geth consensus I felt was an ingenious way to show how the "Morning War" really went down.

[Vortex13]

I thought the rannoch mission was quite nice in the way that it played out, and the reaper code upgrade fits with the overall theme of the geth (at least in my opinion). What started the war was a geth asking "does this unit have a soul?" The Reaper code made the geth true AIs, they became truly alive which was the question that started the entire war.

 

Which to me, stands at odds to how the Geth were presented in ME 2. They already were alive.

[shodiswe]

Which to me, stands at odds to how the Geth were presented in ME 2. They already were alive.

I think they were, still, they got upgraded, now one platform can be considered alive on their own, they don't need a group to manifest intelligence.

It isn't explained that well tbh. What it does is that it saves them as a species, which makes the Geth prime say, "thanks to you, we are a people". They would be dead otherwise and then they wouldn't have been a people, or they would have been reaperised husks, then they still wouldn't have been a people.

It didn't really change who they were, it just updated their drivers which increased their available processing power. Which reduced the processing requierment capacity to manifest intelligence.
They can still network if they choose to do so, they can even enter Quarians suits if both parties agrees to the procedure.

I don't think they changed that much, but new possibilities were made available for individual Geth, should they choose to explore them.

The Quarians could also say the same, they are a people because Shepard saved them, they would have been dead otherwise.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I thought the rannoch mission was quite nice in the way that it played out, and the reaper code upgrade fits with the overall theme of the geth (at least in my opinion). What started the war was a geth asking "does this unit have a soul?" The Reaper code made the geth true AIs, they became truly alive which was the question that started the entire war. The geth consensus I felt was an ingenious way to show how the "Morning War" really went down.

 

The problem that most of us have is that the Geth were already presented as alive and they believed themselves to be, just not in an anthropomorphic sense. What's really bothersome is that Legion/Geth VI view the code as if the Geth weren't alive before and everything that made them interesting as a species gets dropped and replaced with how repressed and downtrodden they were. They basically become a race of metal Pinocchios, which is precisely what the writer back in ME2 wanted to avoid.

[Livi14]

*Shrugs* I guess I like Pinocchio stories. And I liked Data. Or maybe it's just Tali's swan dive

Seriously though, the storyline worked for me. But I understand why others hate it.

[Kel Riever]

Point #1 from an earlier thread:

1. The geth gestalt was replaced by individuality – All that other stuff is just lazy and stupid, this is straight up offensively bad to me. This is the worst thing in the trilogy for me. Long after the sting of the endings has faded, this still keeps me up some nights. In ME2, Legion offers us a picture of what the geth are, and in short, they are awesome. They are the most interesting, most alien culture in Mass Effect. Their creator Chris E’toile said that he intentionally avoided the two big AI clichés – the geth don’t want to destroy organics, nor do they want to become organics. They don’t have individuality and they don’t want it (Legion says this specifically). They believe themselves (and all sentient races) to have rights (Legion says this specifically too.) They looked down on organic violence over ideas – they sought to understand, but not to judge (Legion basically says this). When the heretics wanted to leave, the geth let them go peacefully. When Legion discovered that the heretics had changed enough to sneak spy software onto geth servers, they were astonished. Legion makes it very clear – the geth do not value individuality, but togetherness. They know each other’s mind and they understand. They wanted to build their Dyson sphere so that no geth would ever have to be alone, so they could all communicate, all think together, and be the best they could be, and exercise their right as sentient beings to forge their own path in peace.

And then in ME3 this is all gone. Their Dyson sphere is destroyed as an afterthought and the geth get (as aforementioned, nebulously-described, goofy-ass) Reaper upgrades that confer individuality on them. What this means for all of the runtimes that don’t have platforms is never explained (does one of Legion’s 1183 runtimes become an AI and the rest just disappear, or what?) The geth get the opportunity for individuality and Legion finds it ‘beautiful… indicative of life’. They want it, after ME2 establishing specifically that they didn’t want it (“If this is the individuality you value, we question your judgment”). The geth go from super inventive awesomeness to a run of the mill Pinocchio story (which EDI already had covered).

Here’s the thing: The geth already were people. They were sentient, they were capable of making moral judgments, and they had rights just like organic races do. They did not need individuality to do this. The geth consensus is not a pile of slaves pining for individuality, it is a superorganism, where individuality is not only irrelevant, but counterproductive. It is not hard to imagine why non-geth characters might not be able to grasp this – I understand why Shepard would assume the geth wanted individuality – but LEGION should not say they think the geth need an upgrade to be considered alive. It is abundantly clear that Legion thought they were alive already (and they were right to). The way it all went down with the geth, with them abandoning both their fondness for self-determination and their clever non-individuality, was lame, unimaginative garbage that missed out on a huge chance to play into Mass Effect’s organic vs synthetic themes to instead clobber them with a big, fat, unsubtle Bat of Mediocrity plus 10.

And the final straw that broke poor Sloth’s heart? After the mission, the character who delivered the moral of the story, the character who pointed out that Legion had switched to the “I” pronoun, indicating that they had finally, finally graduated from a meaningless automaton into true personhood, the character who didn’t have any problem at all with the implication that the geth hadn’t been people before the Reaper upgrades…

...was EDI.

 

GOOD THING THAT WHAT MASS EFFECT 3 NEEDED WAS STICKING TO ITS GUNS!

 

I mean, with brilliance like that, when Mass Effect 4 comes out, be sure to keep on the lead developer and writer.  Because it is going so well...

[dreamgazer]

"Am I alive? Why am I here? What is my purpose?"

 

Meh.

[Excella Gionne]

"Am I alive? Why am I here? What is my purpose?"

 

Meh.

SYNTHESIS! Add your SWAG to the Crucible!

[dreamgazer]

SYNTHESIS! Add your SWAG to the Crucible!

 

Noooo, thank you.