1807 réponses à ce sujet

[Innsmouth Dweller]

I think Killdren88 makes an excellent point. I'm going to share some reasons why I think some players hate multiplayer.

1. Control - in single player you have control. You can decide when to play for how long and you can take total control of the combat, pausing and considering the game in your own time. In multiplayer you can't pause and so an element of your control is lost.
2. Exposure - In single player, if you suck, then no-one is watching. In multiplayer, dying over and over again in front of other people can be uncomfortable. People rage-quit often because they die stupidly on level one.
3. Learning curve - Joining a multiplayer for the first time can be challenging because you have a learning curve which other players may not accommodate which make multiplayer a difficult experience for new players.
4. Skill level - Some players are just better at it and they tend to stay and can dominate. In PvP multiplayer it can be dispiriting to constantly die over and over again because someone else is a little (or a lot) better at real-time play.
5. Other people - Thinking of the Jean-Paul Satre quote: 'hell is other people.' And some people will behave badly, cheating, going away from keyboard (AFK), trolling, griefing and so on.
6. Grinding - Spending microtransactions is a choice but those who wish to play to gain achievements can be faced with a mountainous grind. I thought ME3 MP was about twice as grindy as it could have been. 1600 hours play to unlock all the weapons is well past unreasonable.
7. Connecting - Linking MP to single player destroys the haven that single players have, it says to them you must play multiplayer and that's not fair.
   (...)

and of course, i disagree. well at least that's not the reason i hate it, at least in ME3 form. i do enjoy MP (MMORPGs mostly), i do not enjoy competition that comes with PvP, all sorts of PVE highest damage/kill charts, guild progression boards and such. it simply takes away the pleasure of playing for me and turning the game into a pissing contest. for more than a year i did PvP and PvE outside the guild, with my friends and bunch of other people - it was the best experience ever, no waiting for spot (we want you because you can play, not because you have silly points, it's your turn, other person is our best buddy and we need only one sniper/healer/CC/nug), no people whining cuz loot/trolls/newbies (funny thing is i don't mind afkers/trolls, people whining about them irk me the most) - simply striving to polish tactics, find optimal build/gear for specific encounter and play the best we could

 

what would i want in RPG MP? cooperation. progressing the story with friends, fighting npcs with them, voting on decissions. a nice combination of oldschool LAN multiplayer RPG and swtor (i did enjoy swotr until they put quests from the bucket feature - expansion with Makeb, i believe?). something that has never been done properly before and for some unknown reason - no one is even trying to do such thing. maybe it's too complex, maybe it's not worth the effort, maybe it's easier to use existing template than try to develop something new. 

 

do i mind including ME-style MP in DA? no, i'm all for options, sure. even if i won't use it.

[CronoDragoon]

I don't get this complaint.  You want multiplayer, SO YOU HAVE TO FORCE IT INTO EVERYTHING.  Talk selfish.

 

I can make broad generalizations too.

 

The big difference being that if we do it your way, people who want MP don't get it, while if we do it others' way, you still get your SP. It's far less of a deal for you to ignore a % that shows up on your readiness than completely obliterating something that others find value in.

[Iakus]

The big difference being that if we do it your way, people who want MP don't get it, while if we do it others' way, you still get your SP. It's far less of a deal for you to ignore a % that shows up on your readiness than completely obliterating something that others find value in.

Not really.  You can't throw a rock without hitting two or three multiplayer games.  Keeping one franchise single-player is not going to deprive the gaming world of the multiplayer experience.

[Iakus]

You're welcome to that view, but I don't think many other people would take such an extreme position.

 

In any event, your post really has nothing to do with people being able to enjoy both singleplayer RPGs and multiplayer or co-op gameplay. Regardless of their integration or whether they have to be installed together, I was answering your point - yes, there are people who can and do like both.

 

I might enjoy them to a lesser or greater extent depending on the game, but I'm not opposed on principle. Taking such an absolute view is a bit premature in most situations, I think.

Well, as I've said before, once bitten, twice shy.

[CronoDragoon]

Not really.  You can't throw a rock without hitting two or three multiplayer games.  Keeping one franchise single-player is not going to deprive the gaming world of the multiplayer experience.

 

People who want MP in Dragon Age.

[SofaJockey]

Yep, some people love it, some people hate it.

 

Multiplayer is just a game mechanic.
It's either going to interfere with single player or it won't.

 

If it doesn't then it needn't be any multiplayer haters' problem.

 

We don't know whether it is included in DAI of course.

[JamieCOTC]

Unfortunately we only have ME3 to go by w/ how BW might implement MP in DAI. As good as ME3's MP was (some would argue it was far better than the SP) it impacted the story far too much. I will admit that the ME team did a good job of adding MP to the SP story and leaving it quite vague w/ one huge caveat.

 

Spoiler

In order to keep Shepard alive in destroy option of the ending you had to play MP. Even though BW went out of its way to state that MP was only an option it was later revealed this was intentional. http://forum.bioware...e-extended-cut/

 

This was "fixed" w/ the release of the Extended Cut. On top of that the war assets in the Galaxy at War were just numbers that felt very lacking as alternatives to MP. At first glance this is exactly what the agents system looks like, but we don't know enough about it and could be something very different and I won't assume anything at this point. I just hope that if there is MP in DAI, and it's fine if it is, that it please stay away from the SP experience completely.
 

[Iakus]

Unfortunately we only have ME3 to go by w/ how BW might implement MP in DAI. As good as ME3's MP was (some would argue it was far better than the SP) it impacted the story far too much. I will admit that the ME team did a good job of adding MP to the SP story and leaving it quite vague w/ one huge caveat.

 

Spoiler

In order to keep Shepard alive in destroy option of the ending you had to play MP. Even though BW went out of its way to state that MP was only an option it was later revealed this was intentional. http://forum.bioware...e-extended-cut/

 

This was "fixed" w/ the release of the Extended Cut. On top of that the war assets in the Galaxy at War were just numbers that felt very lacking as alternatives to MP. At first glance this is exactly what the agents system looks like, but we don't know enough about it and could be something very different and I won't assume anything at this point. I just hope that if there is MP in DAI, and it's fine if it is, that it please stay away from the SP experience completely.
 

Said fix was released months later, and it was implied the original number was a deliberate "reward" for those who chose to play MP and they later chose to reduce the requirement so anyone could see it.  But it was originally "working as intended"

 

So, yeah, I have absolutely zero trust in how MP will be implemented in the future.

[spinachdiaper]

It's not what the fans want, It's not what Bioware wants, It's what EA wants and lately EA is determined to get microtransactions in all their games, but then again most major publishers and developers are doing it so I think it would be better to have a ME3 style horde mode to contain this inevitability instead of crippling single player game progress with endless grinding only to have microtransactions that speed the grind.

[Vortex13]

It's not what the fans want, It's not what Bioware wants, It's what EA wants and lately EA is determined to get microtransactions in all their games, but then again most major publishers and developers are doing it so I think it would be better to have a ME3 style horde mode to contain this inevitability instead of crippling single player game progress with endless grinding only to have microtransactions that speed the grind.

 

 

I, as a fan want multiplayer, and there have been interviews and articles wherein BioWare developers have expressed a desire to have multiplayer in their games. EA would be interested in online play because of the potential revenue, but that's to be expected seeing as how they are a business and all.

 

Even if everything was some vast conspiracy on behalf of EA to get MP into DA:I, then why even give BioWare an addition year of development time, to better implement the single player? Why not ship the game out as quickly as possible to rake in all of the $$ from the online players? Why give BioWare an additional month to polish the game if they are so concerned with putting MP and micro-transactions into everything?

[simpatikool]

It's not what the fans want, It's not what Bioware wants, It's what EA wants and lately EA is determined to get microtransactions in all their games, but then again most major publishers and developers are doing it so I think it would be better to have a ME3 style horde mode to contain this inevitability instead of crippling single player game progress with endless grinding only to have microtransactions that speed the grind.

When you say fans, you mean to say "me". I am a fan and I want the multiplayer. I am fine with you not wanting it. But, you can't claim to speak for the masses, as you really do not know.

[Navasha]

Personally, I have nothing against MP.    Not exactly my style of choice, but I don't begrudge others that might want it.   However, I don't want MP to interfere with the SP game in anyway, shape, or form.    This means 100% separation.   They should not even be the same executable file.   They also must have 100% separation of development styles.     I don't want controls or systems changed for the SP game so that they can easily be used by players in the MP.   

 

This is the same sort of argument I often have for bad PC ports.   For example, games that are designed to be used by a controller have been designed and coded for those limitations.   Think of the bad UI that often pops up in cross-platform games that just looks awful on the PC.   

 

Developers often use a cross-platform mentality when designing games for SP and MP aspects.   Its understandable that they want the MP to feel exactly what people are used to in the SP.    However, the systems that work well in MP are often severely limited from what the SP game might find optimal.    To me, those sorts of "compromises" are also what I consider "interference" with the SP development. 

 

Make a MP, but keep its skills, abilities, and systems WHOLLY separate from the SP game.    Make what works best for both sides and not worry about whether those aspects feel familiar to people on either side.  

[Joseph Warrick]

It's not what the fans want

 

[ElitePinecone]

It's not what the fans want, It's not what Bioware wants, It's what EA wants and lately EA is determined to get microtransactions in all their games, but then again most major publishers and developers are doing it so I think it would be better to have a ME3 style horde mode to contain this inevitability instead of crippling single player game progress with endless grinding only to have microtransactions that speed the grind.

 

I think it's a bold assumption to make if you believe that nobody at BioWare would be interested in a multiplayer mode. 

 

(Let alone fans. Who do you mean by fans? Who are you speaking for, besides yourself? I'm a fan, and I'd be happy with MP.)

[SofaJockey]

I as a fan would like multiplayer if BioWare feels it fits the plot.
I respect those that would prefer not to have it and so if it is included I would expect it not to connect or that players may optionally disconnect it.

[ghostzodd]

I, as a fan want multiplayer, and there have been interviews and articles wherein BioWare developers have expressed a desire to have multiplayer in their games. EA would be interested in online play because of the potential revenue, but that's to be expected seeing as how they are a business and all.

 

Even if everything was some vast conspiracy on behalf of EA to get MP into DA:I, then why even give BioWare an addition year of development time, to better implement the single player? Why not ship the game out as quickly as possible to rake in all of the $$ from the online players? Why give BioWare an additional month to polish the game if they are so concerned with putting MP and micro-transactions into everything?

 

 

After all   the bad press EA has gotten, especially after the whole BF4 debacle, why would they want even more bad press by rushing games out and they end up broken, if they are "about the gamers now" why would they do something as so blatantly stupid? Heck I am suprised Hardline got pushed back.

[Vortex13]

After all  l the bad press EA has gotten, especially after the whole BF4 debacle, why would they want even more bad press by rushing games out and they end up broken?

 

 

So all of the extra time and effort that EA gave BioWare to work on DA:I is not because they want to see a better product which in turn would generate more sales, but because they are avoiding bad press?

 

I highly doubt that if EA was as evil as the internet claims they are, they wouldn't care what the press and/or the the gamers had to say about their games.

[jtav]

The only thing I didn't really like about ME MP wasn't direct;y related to it. It seemed like the devs were trying to chase the demographic that just wanted to shoot things and not engage in the RP elements. Hence Action Mode, linear narrative, etc. I don't think that'll be a problem with DA. I thought the assets system was good, or at least better than doing random sidequests just because.

[ghostzodd]

So all of the extra time and effort that EA gave BioWare to work on DA:I is not because they want to see a better product which in turn would generate more sales, but because they are avoiding bad press?

 

I highly doubt that if EA was as evil as the internet claims they are, they wouldn't care what the press and/or the the gamers had to say about their games.

 

EA is not evil, but they are a public company and, that has its own share of issues.  Also am I the only one that remembers the whole BF4 nonsense and how they game was a broken mess on all platforms. Game did not sell nearly as much as it could of if it got more time and was stable . I honestly don't even see the push back for DAI as  bad. My only issue is that Bioware is still keeping the obvious multplayer component  hush hush.

[SofaJockey]

...My only issue is that Bioware is still keeping the obvious multplayer component hush hush.

I think we will just need to be patient. I too think it's clear that there is something, but it could be just an online journal app or it could be bigger than single player, neither extremes are likely to be true.

And we just got a dose of patience placed upon us marketing have an extra 42 days to weave their story.

[Killdren88]

EA is not evil,

 

Hah...well now here is a Joker if I've ever seen one.

[ElitePinecone]

Hah...well now here is a Joker if I've ever seen one.

 

Are you six years old? Tobacco companies are evil. Garment factories that use child labour are evil. 

 

A videogame company that occasionally pisses off its fans (who are, statistically, extraordinarily wealthy and privileged compared to the rest of the planet) is not evil. Get some perspective, ffs.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think it's a bold assumption to make if you believe that nobody at BioWare would be interested in a multiplayer mode. 

 

(Let alone fans. Who do you mean by fans? Who are you speaking for, besides yourself? I'm a fan, and I'd be happy with MP.)

 

As far as I'm aware multiplayer was on the plate for pretty much every game.  I think MDK2 might be the exception.  Apparently Baldur's Gate almost shipped with a PvP deathmatch mode!

[Vortex13]

As far as I'm aware multiplayer was on the plate for pretty much every game.  I think MDK2 might be the exception.  Apparently Baldur's Gate almost shipped with a PvP deathmatch mode!

 

 

I wouldn't have been too keen on a PvP mode, but it is cool that BioWare; my go-to for story driven RPGs; is as into the concept of MP as I am.

[SofaJockey]

... it is cool that BioWare; my go-to for story driven RPGs; is as into the concept of MP as I am.

 

Not that Allan's kind contributions to this thread are official proof or validation of anything