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The satisfied dragon in the room: The suspected and revealed multiplayer


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#601
Iakus

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"ME3 set the precedent on what to expect.  And given EA's apparent choice that everything must have "an online components (which invariably seems to translate to "multiplayer") I reserve the right to be pessimistic until proven otherwise"

 

Not sure how you came to this conclusion, this is pure speculation on your part to boost your argument against MP. ME3 set a precedent?  Could very well be because of the great success of Me3 MP.  To stretch it further and say the online component bit is invariably mp is reaching rather badly.)

I think you do know, but at the risk of repeating myself:

 

We were repeatedly assured that MP would not impinge upon single player, both before and after release.  Which was demonstrably not the case, be it by accident or not.

 

As for the online component invariably being mp, um, just how many games has EA greenlit since 2012 that didn't have multiplayer?



#602
SirGladiator

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I agree with the notion that there's nothing wrong with the way things worked in ME3, aside from the terrible ending itself.  I don't understand why anyone would complain about having to do a bit of MP in order to get the best ending.  It sure was a lot more fun than simple 'level grinding' would've been, or more 'fetch quests' etc.  It was just like they said, a reward for doing something extra.  And an incredibly easy something extra at that.  It's not like you had to pay money, or do something crazy difficult.  It was a fun and easy thing to do, play some games of MP and get the best ending.  I know that because some folks complained they probably won't do that again but I wish they would, it's always nice to feel like you've 'earned' the best ending, rather than it being the same ending that everybody else gets no matter how little effort they put into it.  Never mind the fact that even the 'best' ending of ME3 sucked at first, that's rather a different point entirely :) .  But if, for example, I had to do some MP to shore up my Castle resources/defenses so the head bad-guy doesn't destroy my castle in the final battle, then that's an effort I would happily make, and I'd find that a really cool addition to the game.



#603
Fiery Phoenix

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"ME3 set the precedent on what to expect.  And given EA's apparent choice that everything must have "an online components (which invariably seems to translate to "multiplayer") I reserve the right to be pessimistic until proven otherwise"

 

Not sure how you came to this conclusion, this is pure speculation on your part to boost your argument against MP. ME3 set a precedent?  Could very well be because of the great success of Me3 MP.  To stretch it further and say the online component bit is invariably mp is reaching rather badly.)

I think, by this point, it's pretty clear that "online component" is just a shady way for EA to hint on some form of multiplayer when they aren't ready to confirm it. It's purposefully ambiguous because it can mean anything, which is exactly why it's convenient for them to throw the term around.



#604
Iakus

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I agree with the notion that there's nothing wrong with the way things worked in ME3, aside from the terrible ending itself.  I don't understand why anyone would complain about having to do a bit of MP in order to get the best ending.  It sure was a lot more fun than simple 'level grinding' would've been, or more 'fetch quests' etc.  It was just like they said, a reward for doing something extra.  And an incredibly easy something extra at that.  It's not like you had to pay money, or do something crazy difficult.  It was a fun and easy thing to do, play some games of MP and get the best ending.  I know that because some folks complained they probably won't do that again but I wish they would, it's always nice to feel like you've 'earned' the best ending, rather than it being the same ending that everybody else gets no matter how little effort they put into it.  Never mind the fact that even the 'best' ending of ME3 sucked at first, that's rather a different point entirely :) .  But if, for example, I had to do some MP to shore up my Castle resources/defenses so the head bad-guy doesn't destroy my castle in the final battle, then that's an effort I would happily make, and I'd find that a really cool addition to the game.

 

Not everyone has reliable online access

Not everyone has an online account

Not everyone likes MP in general.

Not everyone wants to play MP to access single player content

 

Should I go on?


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#605
SofaJockey

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Not everyone has reliable online access

Not everyone has an online account

Not everyone likes MP in general.

Not everyone wants to play MP to access single player content

 

You are quite correct, which is why none of those things should be required.

 

Should I go on?

 

Is that rhetorical or an genuine question?  :D

(won't hold you to it - I hope we will know either way tomorrow...)



#606
BobZilla84

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I have a feeling that tommorow B-Ware will reveal MP at GamesCon Its just a gut feeling but it is there I am looking forward to see if any MP is revealed.

 

I will keep an open mind but please B-Ware please no more stupid horde mode aka ME3's 11 wave setup if any MP is added make it anything but that.



#607
shingara

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Whilst i agree on the fact that not everyone wants to play multiplayer and not everyone has internet access nor a good enough connection to play multi player i do not agree that it should be limited from the game because of this. A good multiplayer war map mode would be fun and even more fun would be a possible co-op type gameplay as seen in deadspace.

 

 The logisitics of it would be high but who knows what bioware have done for inq already.



#608
KennethAFTopp

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If it doesn't detract from the Single Player Experience and it is a completely different entity, I don't care.


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#609
dekkerd

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Whilst i agree on the fact that not everyone wants to play multiplayer and not everyone has internet access nor a good enough connection to play multi player i do not agree that it should be limited from the game because of this. A good multiplayer war map mode would be fun and even more fun would be a possible co-op type gameplay as seen in deadspace.
 
 The logisitics of it would be high but who knows what bioware have done for inq already.


Dead space had sections of the SP game locked to co-op only. I'd say that's the worst way it could be done.
As said above, I understand if it exists it will be on the disc. Just keep it far, far away from SP.

#610
Eelectrica

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I'd be surprised if this does have an MP component if for no other reason than it would need to be fully supported across all 5 platforms it's released on.

Destiny which is built from the ground up as MP are delaying the release of the PC version as is.

For a game developed and promoted as a single player game to this point it seems incredible they'd want to support 5 mp platforms at the same time with all the additional complexity that would bring with it.

Guess we'll all know one way or the other in a few hours time.

#611
Morroian

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ME3 set the precedent on what to expect.  

 

Which was later fixed and the feedback was such that I doubt Bioware will engage in such a practice again. 



#612
Malanek

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It just seems weird that we haven't had confirmation either way at this late stage. The only common sense reason I can fathom is that they are working on it, want to put it in, but don't know whether it will be ready/good enough when the game launches. Or they didn't know until very recently. Hopefully we get a straight answer to this fairly soon.


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#613
wtfman99

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I think mp would of been brought up around the time of multiple races

#614
Killdren88

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I think mp would of been brought up around the time of multiple races

 

Indeed. Not like this is a super amazing thing that they wanna hold back for a big reveal. Multilayer is nothing new these days. So if we hear nothing by the end of Gamescom, then yeah there is no MP (Thank the Maker.)



#615
Allan Schumacher

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Instead of wishing that the only scene that brought a note of positivity to the ending was removed, maybe wish that BioWare simply hadn't tied MP to galactic readiness.

 

Awesome.  If you've seen my stance on it you'll know I've said just that in the past - not that it made any difference.  I mean, in the post you quote I state straight up that it was a mistake, but again not that it made any difference.

 

The main reason why I framed it like that is because I was leaving open the possibility that it's seen as an easter egg scene and not intended to be seen as a distinct ending - but obviously fans see it otherwise (which is fine, authorial intent doesn't matter all that much once it's out the door and in the public's hands.  I didn't work on the game so I couldn't say for sure the motivations behind the scene).

 

I also framed it in a particular way to illustrate that the absence of a 7 second scene of the scene invalidates a whole swath of the complaints towards the inclusion of multiplayer.  Evidently, though, we're not allowed to learn from this mistake and it still gets harped on as though people think we're unaware of the reservations that people had.  Which is frankly just an insulting perspective to have.  It's pretty much saying "Allan, I think you do not understand what is being said... so I need to keep telling you until I think you understand."  Which based on current action is pretty clearly that people believe I will never understand.

 

Either that, or they figure that if they keep saying it, they somehow count as more than one voice (which is probably a worse perspective for me to have).

 

I will concede, however, that I likely also framed it that way because I'm mostly just annoyed by the topic at this point, in large part because of the idea that people seem to think I'm (or BioWare is) oblivious to the feedback.

 

 

 

 

I know right? That scene is the main reason I loved the ME3 ending. It felt rewarding despite the bittersweet victory.

 

Yes, well, I didn't mind the ME3 endings in their original state but found it to be a negative part of the Destroy ending (it took an already stretched ending and stretched it even more).  So different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

 

 

 

but as Maria Caliban said, rather than wishing the scene was never in, it might have been better to wish that MP and SP had never been tied together at all to begin with.

 

Because if your complaints are about the existence of MP affecting the single player game, the solution remedies your complaint perfectly.  You're suggesting, though, that that wouldn't be an appropriate solution?  Because NOW it seems like you're conflating multiple complaints together which obfuscates the issue.  Since you seem to feel that this decision was done on purpose to encourage multiplayer (a position you're still reiterating, despite it actually not being accurate), you start to suggest that the scene itself was created because of the multiplayer/galactic readiness.

 

It seems to me, now, that your issue isn't about SP content being gated by MP, but rather the ending that you want was gated galactic readiness.  Because I actually think this wouldn't be an issue for you if some ultra doomdsay crap ending was gated behind MP.  But this is part of the problem with bringing multiple reasons for disliking something into an argument about only one of those things.

 

If your issue is "MP gating SP" is it not fair to say, then, that if the scene didn't exist at all that you'd therefore have no issues with MPs existence?  Or is it that the ending was so subpar for you that it's just extra frustrating that the ending you felt most palatable in a sea of unsatisfactory endings required something out of single player to accomplish.  In other words, is your complaint more rooted in how poor you felt the ME3 endings were?  Because if it's not, then why isn't the solution I presented an acceptable one?  It solves the problem that you keep bringing up.

 

 

EDIT: In retrospect (I will keep it up since people have already seen it - and maybe there's some catharsis in venting for people to see?) this post is also indicative that I'm stressed and as a result extra frustated/annoyed/pissed off/whatever at this topic and it's probably best that I take a break.  I can't promise a timely (or any) response to any responses people have to this post.  Sorry.


Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 août 2014 - 02:28 .

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#616
Bekkael

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*snip*

 

:( I'm sorry you're feeling so stressed and I hope you get a chance for a break and some rejuvenation. I, and I know many others, really appreciate your thoughtful and sensitive posts on a myriad of subjects and threads, and it must be frustrating to be misunderstood repeatedly. *big hugs* <3 You are loved, Allan!


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#617
Melca36

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Indeed. Not like this is a super amazing thing that they wanna hold back for a big reveal. Multilayer is nothing new these days. So if we hear nothing by the end of Gamescom, then yeah there is no MP (Thank the Maker.)

 

I believe there won't be multiplayer. Something would have been said.  And while ME3 multiplayer was fun.............its DEAD now.

 

It takes far too long to find a match.   



#618
Maria Caliban

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Awesome.  If you've seen my stance on it you'll know I've said just that in the past - not that it made any difference.  I mean, in the post you quote I state straight up that it was a mistake, but again not that it made any difference.
 
The main reason why I framed it like that is because I was leaving open the possibility that it's seen as an easter egg scene and not intended to be seen as a distinct ending - but obviously fans see it otherwise (which is fine, authorial intent doesn't matter all that much once it's out the door and in the public's hands.  I didn't work on the game so I couldn't say for sure the motivations behind the scene).
 
I also framed it in a particular way to illustrate that the absence of a 7 second scene of the scene invalidates a whole swath of the complaints towards the inclusion of multiplayer.  Evidently, though, we're not allowed to learn from this mistake and it still gets harped on as though people think we're unaware of the reservations that people had.  Which is frankly just an insulting perspective to have.  It's pretty much saying "Allan, I think you do not understand what is being said... so I need to keep telling you until I think you understand."  Which based on current action is pretty clearly that people believe I will never understand.
 
Either that, or they figure that if they keep saying it, they somehow count as more than one voice (which is probably a worse perspective for me to have).
 
I will concede, however, that I likely also framed it that way because I'm mostly just annoyed by the topic at this point, in large part because of the idea that people seem to think I'm (or BioWare is) oblivious to the feedback.


Illegitimi non carborundum.

Are you going to be up to watch the stream with us?

I believe there won't be multiplayer. Something would have been said. And while ME3 multiplayer was fun.............its DEAD now.

It takes far too long to find a match.


Alternatively, I expect that we'll get confirmation of the MP tonight.

#619
Iakus

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Because if your complaints are about the existence of MP affecting the single player game, the solution remedies your complaint perfectly.  You're suggesting, though, that that wouldn't be an appropriate solution?  Because NOW it seems like you're conflating multiple complaints together which obfuscates the issue.  Since you seem to feel that this decision was done on purpose to encourage multiplayer (a position you're still reiterating, despite it actually not being accurate), you start to suggest that the scene itself was created because of the multiplayer/galactic readiness.

 

It seems to me, now, that your issue isn't about SP content being gated by MP, but rather the ending that you want was gated galactic readiness.  Because I actually think this wouldn't be an issue for you if some ultra doomdsay crap ending was gated behind MP.  But this is part of the problem with bringing multiple reasons for disliking something into an argument about only one of those things.

 

If your issue is "MP gating SP" is it not fair to say, then, that if the scene didn't exist at all that you'd therefore have no issues with MPs existence?  Or is it that the ending was so subpar for you that it's just extra frustrating that the ending you felt most palatable in a sea of unsatisfactory endings required something out of single player to accomplish.  In other words, is your complaint more rooted in how poor you felt the ME3 endings were?  Because if it's not, then why isn't the solution I presented an acceptable one?  It solves the problem that you keep bringing up.

 

 

 

It might remedy this complaint, yes.  But  it would of course magnify another problem with ME3's endings, as you have noticed.  A problem which this thread really isn't the place to go into, but which I'm sure is on everyone's mind.  So I'll leave it at that.  

 

But suffice it to say that solving this problem is simply to not tie MP to SP at all.  Full stop.  Yes in that particular case it's only a few seconds long.  And yes I suspect it was intended to be an easter egg more than anything else.  But it was a scene which also dramatically altered the context of that ending for a lot of people.  In a way that was truly unique among the endings.  Yeah I don't like ME3's endings, and they go a lot deeper than one brief scene.  But I'm not so blind with hatred that I can't recognize the appeal that scene has had on a lot of others.

 

If ME3 had more endings I liked, that weren't MP gated, would I still be opposed to MP?  Honestly, I can't say.  It's quite possible that the endings reinforced a prejudice I already had.  It's possible, even likely that I'd at least I'd be less vehemently opposed to it.  Less apprehensive at the potential damage.  Though at the same time I'd still be less than thrilled.  Blocking any content at all, even an easter egg, after repeated assurances that something like that absolutely will not happen is still a black mark, no doubt about that.  

 

 

EDIT: In retrospect (I will keep it up since people have already seen it - and maybe there's some catharsis in venting for people to see?) this post is also indicative that I'm stressed and as a result extra frustated/annoyed/pissed off/whatever at this topic and it's probably best that I take a break.  I can't promise a timely (or any) response to any responses people have to this post.  Sorry.

 

It's cool.  We all get carried away sometimes.  Even me  :D


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#620
Eelectrica

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I don't know how many different ways they can say that products containg both a single player and multiplayer aspect will be two separate entities not impacting on the other.

#621
ElitePinecone

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I believe there won't be multiplayer. Something would have been said.

 

There's a pretty good platform to announce multiplayer happening in, like, two and a bit hours from now :P


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#622
Maria Caliban

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I don't know how many different ways they can say that products containg both a single player and multiplayer aspect will be two separate entities not impacting on the other.


Have they said it in German yet?

#623
LPPrince

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Gonna admit I hope there isn't a multiplayer announcement(I like some of my AAA games remaining single player) but if I'm in the minority, I hope the majority gets what they want. We'll see soon enough. Crossing fingers though.


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#624
Eelectrica

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Have they said it in German yet?

Probably, but I'm not sure they've said it Swahili. Biower pls?

 

If multiplay is indeed announced, I hope the servers have some extra cooling, they might need it. Could be fun to watch.

Personally I don't care either way. If it's there I'll take a look, but plan on spending more time exploring the huge world they've created :D



#625
SofaJockey

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I'm hoping for a little shared love between us today.

 

:wub:

 

Whether MP is there, something else, not there or not mentioned, I'm sure DAI will be awesome.

 

This thread was created to explore some inconsistencies people has seen over marketing (silence) over the possibility of MP

It's not a big deal ether way - I'll be excited by new stuff in any case.

And if there's nothing there today I'm hoping this thread will drift into dormancy.

 

I spent a fair amount of time over on the Tomb Raider forums yesterday

(mentioned for comparison purposes not to start a discussion here - there is an OT thread for that)

 

I mention it because in the scheme of things the DA community has very little to be complaining about

and much to be looking forward to.

 

Enjoy the day.


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