1807 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Late August is still months before the game comes out. "Reflexively whipping out their credit cards" isn't exactly a fair summation.

[ElitePinecone]

So they're counting on, what, people heaing "multiplayer" and reflexively whipping out their credit cards?

 

That's rather cynical, don't you think?

 

I feel like you're finding reasons to dislike any potential outcome, frankly.

 

You just said that delaying the marketing of MP would send a bad message.

 

But starting the marketing in late August is a message to get people pre-ordering? Isn't that the point of marketing?

 

What would satisfy you, here?

[Iakus]

Late August is still months before the game comes out. "Reflexively whipping out their credit cards" isn't exactly a fair summation.

Compared to ME3, where it was revealed five months before release?

Compared to the year since DAI was revealed?

Or this new Shadow Realms game, where it was announced at the outset to be MP?

[ElitePinecone]

Compared to ME3, where it was revealed five months before release?

Compared to the year since DAI was revealed?

Or this new Shadow Realms game, where it was announced at the outset to be MP?

 

Is the number of months important? How do we determine what counts as reasonable and unreasonable here?

 

I think the minimum that is required of the studio is to announce a gameplay mode before launch so people can make up their minds on whether to buy the game.

 

If you're invested in DA:I at this point and feel compelled to abandon it because of MP, that's your problem - not theirs. They're not tricking you or lying to you by announcing something before the game comes out. If you've preordered it, that can be cancelled - and you're under no obligation to buy the game until you feel satisfied with the information that they've released. 

[CronoDragoon]

Compared to ME3, where it was revealed five months before release?

Compared to the year since DAI was revealed?

Or this new Shadow Realms game, where it was announced at the outset to be MP?

 

Why would you compare it to anything? A few months before release is still plenty of time to drum up interest.

 

It's entirely possible for you to interpret this whole thing positively in your favor, you know. Such as, "BioWare really wanted to show us that regardless of MP's existence, they are dedicated to focusing on a satisfying SP experience." I'll even throw in your inevitable addendum "especially after ME3." Indeed I suspect that if MP had been announced early you'd focus on how they were never really listening after all because they should have been spending their time convincing you that *insert priorities here*. Now that it's been announced late (if at all), we have this quasi-concern about the quality of MP, something which you have no interest in playing anyway.

 

I don't buy it. I think you have an interest in drumming up negative buzz about MP regardless of what's happening with it.

[Iakus]

Is the number of months important? How do we determine what counts as reasonable and unreasonable here?

 

I think the minimum that is required of the studio is to announce a gameplay mode before launch so people can make up their minds on whether to buy the game.

 

If you're invested in DA:I at this point and feel compelled to abandon it because of MP, that's your problem - not theirs. They're not tricking you or lying to you by announcing something before the game comes out. If you've preordered it, that can be cancelled - and you're under no obligation to buy the game until you feel satisfied with the information that they've released. 

For people like you an I, who have been following the game from the start, it probably matters less.  We know about the game already.

 

But if they're trying to draw in new players with a feature?  Sooner>later.  Marketing a feature means getting the word out.  How much can word spread in ten weeks, after all the major gaming events have happened?

[Iakus]

Why would you compare it to anything? A few months before release is still plenty of time to drum up interest.

 

It's entirely possible for you to interpret this whole thing positively in your favor, you know. Such as, "BioWare really wanted to show us that regardless of MP's existence, they are dedicated to focusing on a satisfying SP experience." I'll even throw in your inevitable addendum "especially after ME3." Indeed I suspect that if MP had been announced early you'd focus on how they were never really listening after all because they should have been spending their time convincing you that *insert priorities here*. Now that it's been announced late (if at all), we have this quasi-concern about the quality of MP, something which you have no interest in playing anyway.

 

I don't buy it. I think you have an interest in drumming up negative buzz about MP regardless of what's happening with it.

 

Actually, at this point, I'm reasonably certain there won't be MP.  I admit I kinda panicked when those achievements appeared.

 

If it is in, though, I'm saying their marketing of the game is really, really screwy.

 

At any rate, if Bioware wanted to say "we're focusing on the best SP experience", they should still be upfront about what is and isn't in the game.  Yes, especially after ME3.  If there is MP, they need to get it out soon and explain exactly what they learned from past experience and how this time it's different.  They did that with what they learned in DA2, with That Cave, crafting, outfits, etc, after all.

 

I'm all for "show don't tell" in marketting.  I think that thus far the team actually got that right.  But at this point it's pretty late in the game to be showing features that haven't even been mentioned so far.

[ElitePinecone]

For people like you an I, who have been following the game from the start, it probably matters less.  We know about the game already.

 

But if they're trying to draw in new players with a feature?  Sooner>later.  Marketing a feature means getting the word out.  How much can word spread in ten weeks, after all the major gaming events have happened?

 

That would be a question for people with marketing expertise, which is absolutely nobody in this thread.

 

If you're opposed to multiplayer, why are you so concerned about whether it's getting the appropriate amount of attention?

 

If they'd focused on that at Gamescom rather than the singleplayer portion, you'd be screaming blue murder.

[Paul E Dangerously]

If it is in, though, I'm saying their marketing of the game is really, really screwy.

I'm all for "show don't tell" in marketting.  I think that thus far the team actually got that right.  But at this point it's pretty late in the game to be showing features that haven't even been mentioned so far.

 

At this point, I think they're guilty of showing too much, with how utterly spoilerific the trailers are. I'd prefer less of that nature and more elaboration on everything else.

[CronoDragoon]

Actually, at this point, I'm reasonably certain there won't be MP.  I admit I kinda panicked when those achievements appeared.

 

I'm all for "show don't tell" in marketting.  I think that thus far the team actually got that right.  But at this point it's pretty late in the game to be showing features that haven't even been mentioned so far.

 

If I were you I'd plan on still seeing MP, just so it's a nice surprise if there isn't any.

 

Whatever MP marketing is still coming, they are doing the definition of "show, don't tell." They have simply decided to show MP last.

 

And 10 weeks is plenty of time to spread word of mouth. We live in the social media age where information dispersal is instantaneous and viral. It will spread quickly, and more importantly will still be relevant around release date. As opposed to making an announcement 6 months ago and having Dragon Age be off the casual MP fan's mind for months before release.

[ElitePinecone]

Actually, at this point, I'm reasonably certain there won't be MP.  I admit I kinda panicked when those achievements appeared.

 

If it is in, though, I'm saying their marketing of the game is really, really screwy.

 

At any rate, if Bioware wanted to say "we're focusing on the best SP experience", they should still be upfront about what is and isn't in the game.  Yes, especially after ME3.  If there is MP, they need to get it out soon and explain exactly what they learned from past experience and how this time it's different.  They did that with what they learned in DA2, with That Cave, crafting, outfits, etc, after all.

 

I'm all for "show don't tell" in marketting.  I think that thus far the team actually got that right.  But at this point it's pretty late in the game to be showing features that haven't even been mentioned so far.

 

I feel like you're conflating "what iakus wants" with "what the best thing for the game is". 

 

You want reassurances that the multiplayer won't be like ME3.

 

OK. But is this a big issue? Do people (as in, "millions of fans and potential DA players") actually care that much about it? Are there other compelling reasons for not announcing it now that make more sense, even if people like yourself continue to be anxious?

 

Can you concede the possibility that maybe they have other priorities apart from convincing you, personally, that everything is sunshine and rainbows?

[Vortex13]

 

User

When are you guys going to talk about #DAI's multiplayer functions? It's supposed to have MP in some form, as I've heard.

 

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw

We have not discussed anything related to multiplayer. "Online" features, like the keep, yes.

 

 

*strokes chin*

 

 

 

The plot thickens 

 

Personally, I can take this tweet either way. BioWare has not discussed MP so far, but then again there was no discussion of player races before they revealed the four playable options.

 

As I have stated many times in this thread (and elsewhere on the forums) I hope that this means that the scheduled time to reveal MP hasn't happened yet. 

[Sanunes]

After seeing the reactions to Shadow Realms I think no matter what BioWare is going to do its going to be a problem, for I am seeing the exact same complaints leveled against Shadow Realms that are in this very thread or even when multiplayer for Mass Effect 3 was announced.  From the posts I am reading BioWare is only allowed to make games those people will enjoy and anything else is a crime or an insult "to BioWare's real fans" and to show their support talk constantly of buying the game used, watching YouTube videos, or just borrowing a "friends" copy.

[Vortex13]

After seeing the reactions to Shadow Realms I think no matter what BioWare is going to do its going to be a problem, for I am seeing the exact same complaints leveled against Shadow Realms that are in this very thread or even when multiplayer for Mass Effect 3 was announced.  From the posts I am reading BioWare is only allowed to make games those people will enjoy and anything else is a crime or an insult "to BioWare's real fans" and to show their support talk constantly of buying the game used, watching YouTube videos, or just borrowing a "friends" copy.

 

 

I never get this line of thinking.

 

Am I not a 'true fan' of BioWare because I want (co-op) MP in their titles?

 

What if I prefer gameplay mechanics over companion interaction and romance options, does that make me 'less of a fan'?

[Iakus]

I feel like you're conflating "what iakus wants" with "what the best thing for the game is". 

 

You want reassurances that the multiplayer won't be like ME3.

 

OK. But is this a big issue? Do people (as in, "millions of fans and potential DA players") actually care that much about it? Are there other compelling reasons for not announcing it now that make more sense, even if people like yourself continue to be anxious?

 

Can you concede the possibility that maybe they have other priorities apart from convincing you, personally, that everything is sunshine and rainbows?

I think at this point it's a matter of "What iakus thinks makes sense" with "what's actually being marketed"

 

Sure I would like reassurances that MP won't be in.  But at this point I just want to know one way or the other.

 

Is it a big issue?  I dunno.  Is crafting a big issue?  Is the Keep?  Romances?  Do as many people care one way or the other about MP as care about these things?  What possible reason could there be to announce these things many months in advance, but not an entire game mode?

 

Sure it's possible they have other priorities.  But at this point, I can't fathom what.

[SofaJockey]

From the posts I am reading BioWare is only allowed to make games those people will enjoy and anything else is a crime or an insult "to BioWare's real fans" and to show their support talk constantly of buying the game used, watching YouTube videos, or just borrowing a "friends" copy.

 

OT:

 

Believe me the BioWare forums are a clown's tea party compared to the fan carnage going on over at 'Rise of the Tomb Raider'...

 

/OT

[Iakus]

After seeing the reactions to Shadow Realms I think no matter what BioWare is going to do its going to be a problem, for I am seeing the exact same complaints leveled against Shadow Realms that are in this very thread or even when multiplayer for Mass Effect 3 was announced.  From the posts I am reading BioWare is only allowed to make games those people will enjoy and anything else is a crime or an insult "to BioWare's real fans" and to show their support talk constantly of buying the game used, watching YouTube videos, or just borrowing a "friends" copy.

 

I actually respect that they've been upfront with Shadow Realms.  No, I won't get it.  But at least they're not stringing me along.  if others are interested, fine.

[Paul E Dangerously]

After seeing the reactions to Shadow Realms I think no matter what BioWare is going to do its going to be a problem, for I am seeing the exact same complaints leveled against Shadow Realms that are in this very thread or even when multiplayer for Mass Effect 3 was announced.  From the posts I am reading BioWare is only allowed to make games those people will enjoy and anything else is a crime or an insult "to BioWare's real fans" and to show their support talk constantly of buying the game used, watching YouTube videos, or just borrowing a "friends" copy.

 

While I don't entirely want to start up that old argument, you could argue that a lot of the recent ugliness toward Bioware has to do with the fact they've seemingly alienated a lot of those old "core" fans. Trying to attract people with varied interests is not a bad thing in and of itself, but it's all about how you do so. And Bioware's done it with the full "blunt force trauma" method. When you're blatantly trying to appeal to everyone at once, it leaves some people feeling embittered.

 

And personally, after the absolute beating the (single-player) western RPG has taken since 2003 at the hands of multiplayer, and especially online-only multiplayer titles, you can't really blame some people for being upset. Where you once had a lot of great developers, now you're really down to Bioware, Bethesda, CDPR, and Obsidian. Just look at the reaction it got when they revealed they were turning KOTOR into an MMO.

[randomcheeses]

Would it be so terrible if DA:I had no multiplayer component?

[ElitePinecone]

But at this point, I can't fathom what.

 

That shouldn't preclude you from acknowledging that there might be legitimate reasons though, rather than assuming cynical motives for waiting this long to announce something, or assuming that the team are getting it wrong somehow. 

 

If multiplayer is real and ends up tanking because they waited too long, I'd be happy to concede you had a point. But until then, can't we tone down the pessimism a bit?

[SofaJockey]

Actually, at this point, I'm reasonably certain there won't be MP.  I admit I kinda panicked when those achievements appeared.

 

I was fairly suspect of the achievements leak, but the current analysis in the 'dragon taming' thread relating to the latest trailer

was correctly called out in that list, so the credibility of that achievements list has gone up a few notches in my eyes.

[Vortex13]

Would it be so terrible if DA:I had no multiplayer component?

 

 

No. 

 

If, at the end of the day MP is not to be included in DA:I I will not be devastated, bitter or angry. And why should I be, there is a veritable mountain of amazing SP content to keep me engaged and engrossed in BioWare's fantasy setting well into next year (and that's not even counting additional run-throughs or DLC  ).

 

Now I will admit, that there will come a time, when I preform some amazing feat of martial or magical skill, or discover some absolutely gorgeous ruins to explore, or engage in some truly epic roleplaying that I will have a fleeting thought go through my mind wondering how amazing all of my accomplishments, and in-game adventures would be if I could have my friends experience it with me.

 

DA:I without MP = One of the best looking, story based, fantasy RPGs out there.

 

DA:I with MP = One of the best looking, story based, fantasy RPGs out there with the added benefit to share all of that with my friends.

[CronoDragoon]

And personally, after the absolute beating the (single-player) western RPG has taken since 2003 at the hands of multiplayer, and especially online-only multiplayer titles, you can't really blame some people for being upset. Where you once had a lot of great developers, now you're really down to Bioware, Bethesda, CDPR, and Obsidian. Just look at the reaction it got when they revealed they were turning KOTOR into an MMO.

 

Single-player western RPGs have never been in a better place, really. At least, if we're talking cRPGs.

 

And I agree about KOTOR. I was furious. But the onus is on the individual to look at that situation and this one and see that it's completely different.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Single-player western RPGs have never been in a better place, really. At least, if we're talking cRPGs.

 

And I agree about KOTOR. I was furious. But the onus is on the individual to look at that situation and this one and see that it's completely different.

 

1998-2004ish. By far.

[ElitePinecone]

Would it be so terrible if DA:I had no multiplayer component?

 

Look at it this way: if you're interested in DA:I at this point, you're already impressed with the singleplayer part of the game. They've already manged to convince you of the value proposition, based on the gameplay and other information released up to now.

 

If they announce multiplayer in a week or two, you're still getting that SP, plus an extra mode that adds additional content, replayability and the potential for more DLC down the road.

 

Barring an egregious intrusion into the singleplayer mechanics, which I think is unlikely, announcing multiplayer should change nothing about your opinion of the game.