1807 réponses à ce sujet

[aaarcher86]

Except the purpose of MP is to make more money. Draw in another crowd, and thus sell more units.

What's the point of having a marketable feature and not...market it?

Eh, I kind of disagree with that. I don't think ME3 MP was ever really marketed as anything other than a side component to the SP game. I could be wrong. I really don't remember a ton of marketing about it in general, but it wasn't super important to me. I don't think there were many people who bought ME3 strictly for MP.

I don't think it's quite as black and white as some people are making it. I'm not a huge MP fan, but I loved Halo and Destiny. I'm buying DAI for the single player, but I'd play the MP. I don't think anyone looking for the next big online MP battle type game is going to buy DAI for that. Having MP might open up new players to try DAI when they otherwise wouldn't even bother, but it also allows people who like a multitude of different types of gaming to enjoy that too.

If it's not the big draw of the game then minor marketing for isn't really a big deal.

[SofaJockey]

Helpful post from Joe.

BioWare are at Pax in some capacity:

I just wanted to point out that while it is true the DAI team is very busy right now wrapping up the game, it does look like we do have some presence at PAX Prime. See http://blog.bioware....se-2014-season/

 

I am not sure exactly what is happening at PAX Prime, just wanted to point out that we are there in some fashion. I have no idea if there is going to be an announcement related to DAI there.

 

Joe

 

[Malanek]

Eh, I kind of disagree with that. I don't think ME3 MP was ever really marketed as anything other than a side component to the SP game. I could be wrong. I really don't remember a ton of marketing about it in general, but it wasn't super important to me. I don't think there were many people who bought ME3 strictly for MP.

I don't think it's quite as black and white as some people are making it. I'm not a huge MP fan, but I loved Halo and Destiny. I'm buying DAI for the single player, but I'd play the MP. I don't think anyone looking for the next big online MP battle type game is going to buy DAI for that. Having MP might open up new players to try DAI when they otherwise wouldn't even bother, but it also allows people who like a multitude of different types of gaming to enjoy that too.

If it's not the big draw of the game then minor marketing for isn't really a big deal.

It would be a bigger issue this time around simply based on how wildly successful the ME MPer was. In this case I am certain it will sell extra copies.

[In Exile]

With there being timed missions involving your advisors, i feel like if there is a MP aspect to the game it will involve those. Like for example oh look your friend is currently doing a mission in orzammar, would you like to help them complete it quicker? This would be pretty much the same deal that occurred in AC4. Plus its something companies like to trot out to show how you can play such and such game via tablets and other mobile devices.

 

This is exactly the kind of thing to be worried about - that SP content will be made harder to encourage MP. 

[In Exile]

@In Exile: Just to throw this out there but if they announce MP it does NOT mean it has heavy overlap with SP and it does not mean new mechanics. It just means it has MP. You, personally, would 'assume' those 2 things but the inclusion does not mean that. I would 'hope' that it has no tie with the SP, other then maybe in theme or 'reason' for the MP stuff to be happening. Such as are characters having ties with the inquisition but not actually effecting SP.

 

That wasn't the question posed. It was whether their announcement - and not some particular combination of features - would make me less excited about the game. I then explained why it would be a concern - because it would be possible that MP would do these things, since MP for ME3 did these things. 

 

As for the whole new mechanics, outside of PvP obviously needing something it would more likely mean mechanics present in SP not being there in MP. For instance tactical camera and pausing would more then likely not exist in MP. MP would not magically make those disappear from the SP component. Personally I'd love it if they just used the overmaps for SP and just deactivated all the quests for a MP-Free roam mode. Not all of the areas just the 8-10 large maps with dungeon's to explore with buddies. We could each have our own mounts, stuff like that.

It's not just that those modes don't exist - it's that DAI has to have functional action combat that is fun and workable with a single character. Which means that the SP has to also have such mechanics. Which takes away resources from other parts of the game, because now we're designing a totally different gameplay style. 

[Enigmatick]

This is exactly the kind of thing to be worried about - that MP progession will be made tedious and dull to encourage inevitable microtransactions.

Fixed.

[In Exile]

Fixed.

 

Was that the case in ME3? I'm honestly asking - I've never played the MP. 

[Adhin]

@In Exile - fun thing for ya - it ALREADY has that. They don't have to do a goddamn thing from what they already have to make MP fun.

 

-edit-

Yeah they had a completely randomized gambled packages. Battlefield also had that but it wasn't the WHOLE game. They where some stuff and often just got you stuff earlier then taking longer (even with out spending real money or anything). ME3 MP was built 'entirely' off random packages. There was no set progression to earning weapons or equipment. And they didn't have a thing in place that'll forcibly take from a higher teir pool when there isn't anything else.

 

For instance I have all the Blue, Silver, and Gold weapons and equipment maxed out. But when it tries to pull one, it gives me a random single use equipment item instead of grabbing from the ultra rare item list. Which is whats lead me to have 400-500 hours played while 'still' not having some ultra rares unlocked, and most not even halfway maxed.

 

It sucks, but it still had no effect on SP. SP wasn't easier or harder due to MP, it just didn't have 1 5 second scene at the end of one of the 3 crappy endings. Thankfully fixed but ignoring the fix like folks love doing - that's all it did. Now we can argue weather or not they would of done this resource even with OUT MP or not... but I have most MP haters will just decide it exists only because of MP cause MP sucks to them so probably better off just not going there heh.

[Malanek]

Was that the case in ME3? I'm honestly asking - I've never played the MP. 

It wasn't really play to win although the entire MPer was funded by microtransactions. You could get new weapons, characters, gear etc with either in game credits (from playing the game) or Bioware points (from your credit card). But building up your manifest was a lot of fun. It only gets grindy and a bit tedious at the end to get all the ultra rare stuff. I splashed down $10 for each dlc but that was only to support the game not because of the stuff you were getting. Eventually I purchased a second copy of the game simply to have a second account to start again with. ME3 was an amazingly successful experiment.

[Judge Bro]

It wasn't really play to win although the entire MPer was funded by microtransactions. You could get new weapons, characters, gear etc with either in game credits (from playing the game) or Bioware points (from your credit card). But building up your manifest was a lot of fun. It only gets grindy and a bit tedious at the end to get all the ultra rare stuff. I splashed down $10 for each dlc but that was only to support the game not because of the stuff you were getting. Eventually I purchased a second copy of the game simply to have a second account to start again with. ME3 was an amazingly successful experiment.

I still find myself coming back to MP with my close buddies. It's a friggin' blast.

I hope that if DAI does indeed have MP, that it will be as enjoyable with friends as ME3's.

[Sanunes]

Was that the case in ME3? I'm honestly asking - I've never played the MP. 

 

Microtransactions are there, but after playing for over 700 hours, I only bought one 80 point back because I had left over BioWare points.

 

Now I guess some people felt obligated to get rank 10 of every weapon/character/upgrade, but I never felt like I couldn't play multiplayer content without just using what the game gave me to buy packs.

 

Now the packs you buy with in-game currency for completing a match is the exact same as the ones you get with real world money.  I know there are people that didn't like this method for they couldn't pick the one weapon they wanted and focus on for everything you would get would be random and there were a lot of items (If you check my ME3 profile you can see how much was there - It might take a bit to update for I had my profile private).

 

The thing is that all the DLC multiplayer expansions were free, unlike a game like Halo, Call of Duty, or even Battlefield where anytime an expansion was released you would be paying $15 to play that.

Modifié par Sanunes, 15 août 2014 - 04:02 .

[King Dragonlord]

If at launch I learn that there is any SP content (item, scene, character, pallette swap, a single word of dialog, anything) that is gated to require MP, EA has already seen its last dime from me. This is the last game that has any shot at getting my money and if EA can't stop itself from being EA all over it, then it has once again successfully ruined IPs it swiped from real creators (They ruined TETRIS for crying out loud. How do you even do that?). 

 

If I somehow end up with the game and learn I do indeed have to play the Multiplayer for anything, I will be the single most useless load of a player I can be. For example, if its structured like ME3 I'll hang out in a corner for 10 rounds and get my Readiness bumps. I'll run around so the game doesn't kick me out. I encourage others who don't like being forced into multiplayer to do the same. 

 

This has been a single player franchise. Changing gears like this mid story was shameful in ME3 and it will be once again shameful if its done here. 

[Adhin]

Yeah, I disliked the randomness with no way to ensure you get stuff you don't have yet when you already have all the other stuff unlocked. But the fundamental microstransaction that ultimately functions identical to using earned in game currency im fine with. Especially since that is ultimately 'why' all the MP DLC was free. That very system payed for everyones DLC regardless of if you had put anything into it.

 

I don't even mind the random nature honestly. But like I said I have all the blue, silver and gold stuff unlocked. And when it goes to 'roll' for your item and it would pull say a gold normally (since thats 'ensured) it just tossed a consumeable item, basically. Instead of upgrading that to an ultra rare. Which is what it SHOULD do to make this not a thousand hour grind like it is right now. 400+ hours, still don't have all the ultras and that... that's kinda stupid. And easily avoidable via what I just mentioned - make it upgrade to an ultra if you already have ALL of the lower tier items. Simple stuff.

[Sanunes]

Yeah, I disliked the randomness with no way to ensure you get stuff you don't have yet when you already have all the other stuff unlocked. But the fundamental microstransaction that ultimately functions identical to using earned in game currency im fine with. Especially since that is ultimately 'why' all the MP DLC was free. That very system payed for everyones DLC regardless of if you had put anything into it.

 

I don't even mind the random nature honestly. But like I said I have all the blue, silver and gold stuff unlocked. And when it goes to 'roll' for your item and it would pull say a gold normally (since thats 'ensured) it just tossed a consumeable item, basically. Instead of upgrading that to an ultra rare. Which is what it SHOULD do to make this not a thousand hour grind like it is right now. 400+ hours, still don't have all the ultras and that... that's kinda stupid. And easily avoidable via what I just mentioned - make it upgrade to an ultra if you already have ALL of the lower tier items. Simple stuff.

 

The Ultra-Rares were a royal pain and I do agree after you have everything else it would have been nice to see their drop rate increase, maybe not 100%, but definitely a significant chance or even a pack that would cost more and only be unlockable after everything else was maxed out.

[King Dragonlord]

The Ultra-Rares were a royal pain and I do agree after you have everything else it would have been nice to see their drop rate increase, maybe not 100%, but definitely a significant chance or even a pack that would cost more and only be unlockable after everything else was maxed out.

All I needed was a Volus so that i could look silly while waddling around uselessly contributing nothing.

[Maria Caliban]

It's not just that those modes don't exist - it's that DAI has to have functional action combat that is fun and workable with a single character. Which means that the SP has to also have such mechanics. Which takes away resources from other parts of the game, because now we're designing a totally different gameplay style.

No, it does not take away resources from other aspects of the game.

[King Dragonlord]

No, it does not take away resources from other aspects of the game.

 

Really? So they have magical bonus money that wishes itself into existence to fund the multiplayer component? Money that they would not have otherwise spent on development for the SP? Also, time?

[DragonKingReborn]

Really? So they have magical bonus money that wishes itself into existence to fund the multiplayer component? Money that they would not have otherwise spent on development for the SP? Also, time?

 

Yes.  I don't want MP either, but suggesting it takes resources from SP development is not true.  Several posts from developers on these forums have said as much.

 

How that development cost is recovered if the game doesn't cost any more to the consumer is, I guess, where microtransactions come in.

[Maria Caliban]

Really?

Yes.
 

So they have magical bonus money that wishes itself into existence to fund the multiplayer component?

Yes. EA gives BioWare money based on how much they think a product will earn. Dragon Age as a single player game with a multiplayer component earns more than if it's just a single player game. After all, EA knows exactly how much money they earn from microtransactions, so they know how much extra money MP will bring in.
 

Money that they would not have otherwise spent on development for the SP?

Money which they otherwise never would have been given by the publisher.
 

Also, time?

Oh, you mean like an extra year of development time EA gave them specifically to add more stuff to the game? I doubt very much all they did with that time is add PC races.

[Sanunes]

Really? So they have magical bonus money that wishes itself into existence to fund the multiplayer component? Money that they would not have otherwise spent on development for the SP? Also, time?

 

No, its not magical money that instantly comes into existence with the words "lets add multiplayer", its an executive going "how much will multiplayer cost to add?" and then their budget increasing that much if they deem it to be a worthwhile risk.  If the risk is too high the money is never given. They don't just go "here is your operating budget for this year do what you want" you must explain why you need that money and if you can't justify it you aren't given it. It has happened where I have worked many times and there has been times with the budget increasing or decreasing based on what you are requesting and needing to complete projects.

 

As far as time goes, you never really know how much is really invested into the project, but with Mass Effect 3 they had a seperate team in Montreal, but if they didn't have a separate team it might be just an earlier release for the game if they didn't have multiplayer because they didn't need that extra time for the project.

[King Dragonlord]

Yes.
 

Yes. EA gives BioWare money based on how much they think a product will earn. Dragon Age as a single player game with a multiplayer component earns more than if it's just a single player game. After all, EA knows exactly how much money they earn from microtransactions, so they know how much extra money MP will bring in.
 

Money which they otherwise never would have been given by the publisher.
 

Oh, you mean like an extra year of development time EA gave them specifically to add more stuff to the game? I doubt very much all they did with that time is add PC races.

 

Has EA stopped being EA (a name that has become a euphemism among gamers)? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

I don't care what the developers say. That money didn't come from nowhere. Its held back because EA thinks all their games need multiplayer so they can get players to waste money on booster packs for a game they already paid sixty bucks for. They can't grasp how games like Skyrim manage to continue to pop into the top seller slots on Steam periodically because of their commitment to producing content for the singleplayer game.

 

If EA spent that multiplayer money to make the single player even better, they could make Dragon Age Inquisition sell just as well. Dragon Age Origins had a lot of content. Dragon Age II not so much and they paid for it. Definitely fewer sales from the numbers I can get ahold of. More importantly, EA could begin to repair its reputation. As its been voted most evil company (not my words) at least once, I should think they'd want to look into that.

[DragonKingReborn]

I am jacks splitting headache.

 

None of what you said is counter-intuitive.  It makes perfect sense to believe all of it.  A lot of what you said is also correct.

 

The money didn't come from nowhere.  It came from additional resources (keyword: additional) to develop the MP (that may or may not be present).

 

If that money were spent on the SP campaign it likely would be better, although saying they'd make it back makes a number of assumptions.

 

All of that is beside the point, though.  It's not just the developers here.  It's an industry wide thing.  There's even an interview that periodically gets linked to when this topic comes up.  As little sense as it makes, MP does not take resources from SP development.

[Maria Caliban]

Was that the case in ME3? I'm honestly asking - I've never played the MP.

ME 3 MP was fun.

After each game, you got X amount of credits that you could spend on random packs. The more costly the packs, the better chance to unlock or upgrade rare or ultra-rare items.

Here's the thing though: the common unlocks were still fun. A basic human soldier did solid damage, had good health/shield, and was highly mobile. The common unlock weapons were solid. As someone who played until she unlocked everything and upgraded most everything, I've still had people do more damage and get more kills with the basic kits.

I think it struck a good balance between making all the classes/weapon levels feel useful, and insentivizing buying new/better stuff.