1807 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

I would imagine that if MP was revealed much earlier people would be casting an overly critical gaze over all of the SP content shown. Instead of being blown away by the sheer size of the world or the length of the campaign or the various game mechanics/features, I feel that people would be thinking that the SP was being stifled or 'held back' because of the MP.

 

For example, instead of seeing the 150 hour(+) SP campaign as a praiseworthy example of BioWare's story telling and world building skill, there would be people making the claim that if the game didn't have MP then we would be seeing a 300 hour(+) SP campaign. There would be the claim that if MP wasn't in the game then we would have individual origin stories for our Inquisitors, or that because of MP we have gated romance options. Etc.

 

I am not saying that all BioWare fans would be so critical, but considering the tendency of people to view game development as being part of the same budget, those complaints don't sound so far fetched. Granted, people might still make those arguments when MP is announced later, but at least this way the SP content can be shown without people having a pre-conceived notion that the SP is only 'half done'.

[simpatikool]

I would imagine that if MP was revealed much earlier people would be casting an overly critical gaze over all of the SP content shown. Instead of being blown away by the sheer size of the world or the length of the campaign or the various game mechanics/features, I feel that people would be thinking that the SP was being stifled or 'held back' because of the MP.

 

For example, instead of seeing the 150 hour(+) SP campaign as a praiseworthy example of BioWare's story telling and world building skill, there would be people making the claim that if the game didn't have MP then we would be seeing a 300 hour(+) SP campaign. There would be the claim that if MP wasn't in the game then we would have individual origin stories for our Inquisitors, or that because of MP we have gated romance options. Etc.

 

I am not saying that all BioWare fans would be so critical, but considering the tendency of people to view game development as being part of the same budget, those complaints don't sound so far fetched. Granted, people might still make those arguments when MP is announced later, but at least this way the SP content can be shown without people having a pre-conceived notion that the SP is only 'half done'.

 

I agree with you and have speculated along this line of thinking before. I think from Bioware's position, there main product is the SP campaign of Dragon age. That is the main story the are telling in this regard, and I am glad for that. By saving any MP announcement till near release, the emphasis is clearly the SP content. Guys like me, sure, I want the MP portion of the game, especially after how awesome ME3 MP was. However, I am going to buy DAI no matter what. MP or not. It was the story and the main game that sucked me in.  To me, MP is just more DAI IP to enjoy.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I'm sure this is off topic, but I just want to applaud the dedication of the OP when it comes to thinking up new ways to edit and restate the same old thread title. This is what? Version 36 or so?

[ElitePinecone]

Something from PAX 2012, so nearly two years ago now:

 

Mike said that if DA: The Next Thing (as it was known then) had a multiplayer or co-op mode, they'd start by looking at the way Baldur's Gate did it, in terms of working through a story campaign with a friend.

 

He also briefly mentions ME's style of MP as a possibility they could investigate.

[Beerfish]

That's the funny thing, that is the type of MP I would not care about at all.  The coop play the sp game with a friend I have no interest in at all.  multiple player coop like in ME yes I want that very much.

[ElitePinecone]

I actually prefer the horde mode too - or, at least, I think it's more interesting to have that as a starting point, rather than having another player controlling one of your party members in the singleplayer.

 

A Baldur's Gate-style experience also isn't very conducive to monetisation (since it just sounds like part of the main campaign?) and I think there's a bigger potential for the content to feel tired, if there's only a limited number of missions or campaigns or whatever. At least something based almost totally on combat can feel fresh if they keep adding new maps, new enemies, new items etc.

 

(That's not to say I wouldn't want to see story elements or "things other than combat" in a horde mode, because I think that was probably ME3 MP's biggest weak point.)

[AppealToReason]

The inclusion of multiplayer isn't going to sell anybody on Inquisition. It'd be there for the people already dropping their money on the single-player. 

 

I know like 6 people that bought ME3 just for the MP. "Man, this is way more fun than Gears/CoD Zombies!"

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were people like that who dig playing something like ESO would look at a MP mode in a similar light.

[ElitePinecone]

I know like 6 people that bought ME3 just for the MP. "Man, this is way more fun than Gears/CoD Zombies!"

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were people like that who dig playing something like ESO would look at a MP mode in a similar light.

 

I was quite surprised at how quickly an MP community developed that was totally different to the other groups of fans on the forums. I think there's a lot of potential for MP to drive sales and keep people interested, even if those people aren't necessarily hardcore fans.

 

(In fact, it's probably more casual players who might get most invested in MP, since they aren't already playing the games solely for roleplaying or romance or whatever.)

[AppealToReason]

I was quite surprised at how quickly an MP community developed that was totally different to the other groups of fans on the forums. I think there's a lot of potential for MP to drive sales and keep people interested, even if those people aren't necessarily hardcore fans.

 

(In fact, it's probably more casual players who might get most invested in MP, since they aren't already playing the games solely for roleplaying or romance or whatever.)

 

One of the biggest values in MP isn't just the new people it brings in, but that for a lot of people they'll play the story once or less, but if they're hooked on the MP then still when they log on it says "420WEEDSMOKERzX Is playing Dragon Age: Inquisition" every time. 

 

Then maybe after a friend sees that like 3-4 times. "Hey man, whats the Dragon Age game about? Should I pick it up?"

[SolNebula]

I know like 6 people that bought ME3 just for the MP. "Man, this is way more fun than Gears/CoD Zombies!"

 

 

 

LOL that tells pretty much why many hardcore fans hated the game instead.

[Vortex13]

I actually prefer the horde mode too - or, at least, I think it's more interesting to have that as a starting point, rather than having another player controlling one of your party members in the singleplayer.

 

A Baldur's Gate-style experience also isn't very conducive to monetisation (since it just sounds like part of the main campaign?) and I think there's a bigger potential for the content to feel tired, if there's only a limited number of missions or campaigns or whatever. At least something based almost totally on combat can feel fresh if they keep adding new maps, new enemies, new items etc.

 

(That's not to say I wouldn't want to see story elements or "things other than combat" in a horde mode, because I think that was probably ME3 MP's biggest weak point.)

 

 

Same here.

 

While a co-op campaign does sound amazing (and something I would defiantly try out) I don't know if playing second fiddle to the host as a 'Not-Inquisitor" or pre-set companion would really be worth more than one play through. Even if the co-op narrative recognized the other players and/or was a separate, co-op specific campaign, you would still run into issues with the either the narrative bogging down to accommodate multiple player options, or for the scripted events, cutscenes, quests, etc. becoming a turn off to other players.

 

The perfect example of what I am talking about is SWTOR's Flashpoints. After the second or third run though of the dungeon you would have seen all of the possible variances in the co-op narrative, and from that point on, all of the scripted events just become repetitive white noise; an obstacle to overcome so that you and your party can advance to the next group of baddies to kill. Couple this with the relative scarcity of Flashpoint scenarios overall, and the self contained nature of each dungeon's plot, and you had a system (IMO) that looks great on initial play throughs, but quickly becomes one of the lack luster features of the game. 

 

 

 

Now granted, a horde mode is repetitive as well, but only in terms of combat. With these survival game modes, you have a sandbox approach to playing with others versus the scripted approach that a story focused mode (like SWTOR's Flashpoints). Plus you have more options available to play with in a horde mode. Like ElitePincone mentioned, ME 3's MP saw the introduction of new weapons, powers, items, maps, and classes to utilize; each one adding to the replayability of the simple horde mode formula. Things like, additional races (Werewolves, Sylvans, etc.) new spells, talents, or specializations, or new armor and weapon sets will help keep the gameplay fresh and engaging for DA:I.

 

Now while I would love to see such options brought to a co-op campaign, I don't really see the feasibility in the game spending three hours of narrative exposition explaining why a group comprised of a Circle Human Mage, a Qunari Templar, Dwarven Iron Golem and Brecilian Forest Werewolf are in a party together and how such a thing is possible. Let alone how unrealistic it would be to have the writers, and coders include reactivity throughout the campaign for the various party makeups. A horde mode is rather simple, but it has the flexibility to allow for BioWare to go: "The lore allows the possibility for things like Sylvans and Awakened Darkspawn to work alongside the Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari, so enjoy your new MP racial options."

[AppealToReason]

Now while I would love to see such options brought to a co-op campaign, I don't really see the feasibility in the game spending three hours of narrative exposition explaining why a group comprised of a Circle Human Mage, a Qunari Templar, Dwarven Iron Golem and Brecilian Forest Werewolf are in a party together and how such a thing is possible. Let alone how unrealistic it would be to have the writers, and coders include reactivity throughout the campaign for the various party makeups. A horde mode is rather simple, but it has the flexibility to allow for BioWare to go: "The lore allows the possibility for things like Sylvans and Awakened Darkspawn to work alongside the Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari, so enjoy your new MP racial options."

 

This bothered me a bit in ME3. "Sorry, can't have Prothean's or abilities like Dominate or Flare because of the lore" but having a difficulty where Geth, Reapers, Collector's and Cerberus working together on Palaven was totally within the lore? Come on Biower I just wanna have fun!

 

I'd love to play as enemies like Darkspawn or a Venetori or like a Pride Demon. Don't stop me "because lore". Just be like "Yeah, the Inquisition is so super cool these bros are down for team-ups and they had converts!"

 

____

Unrelatedly related, I wonder if there is an SP/MP crossover if it would be a simple unlocking system. Like if you recruit a tribe of Venatori converts or Avvar warriors in SP, then you don't have to unlock them through a pack in MP. And if in MP you "promote" like you did in ME3, you get some bonus "soldiers" for the SP that are primarily irrelevant but technically exist like your N7 team

[spinachdiaper]

I know like 6 people that bought ME3 just for the MP. "Man, this is way more fun than Gears/CoD Zombies!"

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were people like that who dig playing something like ESO would look at a MP mode in a similar light.

all you have to do is jump into a bronze a match on 360 and you will see all sorts of new people who just started playing ME3MP

[simpatikool]

Same here.

 

While a co-op campaign does sound amazing (and something I would defiantly try out) I don't know if playing second fiddle to the host as a 'Not-Inquisitor" or pre-set companion would really be worth more than one play through. Even if the co-op narrative recognized the other players and/or was a separate, co-op specific campaign, you would still run into issues with the either the narrative bogging down to accommodate multiple player options, or for the scripted events, cutscenes, quests, etc. becoming a turn off to other players.

 

The perfect example of what I am talking about is SWTOR's Flashpoints. After the second or third run though of the dungeon you would have seen all of the possible variances in the co-op narrative, and from that point on, all of the scripted events just become repetitive white noise; an obstacle to overcome so that you and your party can advance to the next group of baddies to kill. Couple this with the relative scarcity of Flashpoint scenarios overall, and the self contained nature of each dungeon's plot, and you had a system (IMO) that looks great on initial play throughs, but quickly becomes one of the lack luster features of the game. 

 

 

I never player SWTOR, so I don't really know what the flash points are. However, that does not stop me from sharing and gushing about how much I am for MP. As far as COOP goes, I can't imagine a COOP mode where other players take control of Inquisitor party members. It just takes away the story telling aspect of the game. I can imagine groups of inquisition agents going through mini dungeons in a COOP mode. Akin to a raid in your standard MMO. Bioware could introduce other types of characters we don't get to play in Inquisition, maybe even introduce the option to be the bad guys so to speak. Who knows? It sounds fun if done tastefully. After ME3, I really trust Bioware with that right aspect right now. They seem to want to make up for DA2 to a degree. They clearly are competing with other companies for king of fantasy RPGS

[JeffZero]

(That's not to say I wouldn't want to see story elements or "things other than combat" in a horde mode, because I think that was probably ME3 MP's biggest weak point.)

 

I think I'd have been a lot more inclined to have stuck around for more than a grand total of ~20 hours if that kind of stuff was in there. I'd have still felt like there was entirely too much repetition (and in this case that just speaks volumes about my preferences as a gamer; I understand that it wouldn't be reasonable to anticipate a tenth as much of the sort of variety I would enjoy) but if there were story elements -- real story elements -- I'd have been more satisfied. Something like whatever it is that Halo 4 apparently did, with missions and cinematics and whatnot.

[SofaJockey]

If it's co-op questing I have a hunch that the Scouts would be involved rather than the main party,

but of course that's a wild guess on top of speculation. 

[Malanek]

I never player SWTOR, so I don't really know what the flash points are. However, that does not stop me from sharing and gushing about how much I am for MP. 

Flashpoints are 4 player missions with a story. They typically consist of 3-4 boss fights which include unique mechanics and may require non-typical strategy to defeat them. Added top that there are more typical "filler" enemies in between each boss. There are a varying number of conversations and when the players get a chance to speak one is chosen at random each time to give their answer. 

 

I personally think the replay-ability of flashpoints (and operations which are 8 or 16 player missions) is fairly good. A lot depends on the design. The story certainly wears thin after seeing it for the tenth time but it is still a nice touch in the first place. The important distinction between hoard mode is that all the combat is designed specially rather than simply relying on the map and AI to provide an interesting encounter. Flashpoints are good, they provide a higher quality entertainment than simple horde mode. However they do require much more development which could otherwise be spent enhancing general gameplay.

 

I think future Bioware MPer titles should have both. Although ME was great, more game modes is definitely the next step.

 

I would love to eventually see DA or ME MPer with an editor so players can design and share their own "Flashpoints". I think that would truly give the ultimate replayable experience.

[Iakus]

I'd rather not see Bioware cranking out an MMO every year, thanks.

[SofaJockey]

I think there was a suggestion elsewhere on the forum

for an MMO set at the time of the 1st Blight !

 

Sounds too much like Elder Scrolls Online in my opinion, which I have given a miss.

[Sanunes]

I think there was a suggestion elsewhere on the forum

for an MMO set at the time of the 1st Blight !

 

Sounds too much like Elder Scrolls Online in my opinion, which I have given a miss.

 

The thing about MMO's in general anymore is aside from World of Warcraft they really aren't that popular even the people that quit World of Warcraft don't move to other MMO's they just stop playing them. 

 

Here is a breakdown on the big MMO's faired financially in 2013. Link.  Its going to be interesting next year to see how Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar do, for they are both subscription model games.

[Malanek]

I'd rather not see Bioware cranking out an MMO every year, thanks.

Who are you replying to? That was in no way my suggestion, just an analogy to a small part of MMOs.

[Iakus]

I'm replying to the general idea that coop dungeon crawls, especially done as MMO adventures, would add anything of note to a narrative roleplaying game.

[Adhin]

Iakus, you saying anything MP related doesn't 'add anything' is like someone who hates chocolate saying they don't think adding chocolate to icecream could possibly add anything to it. It wont add anything for YOU, personally, but it does add for a lot of other people. I personally would love a dungeon crawl - not saying MMO-style, but a dungeon crawl co-op side feature would be fun.

 

Wont add anything to the SP story part though for sure, but to say it wouldn't add anything to the game as a whole is... a blind bias.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I'd rather have ME style MP rather than co-op questing, I think.

[Malanek]

I'm replying to the general idea that coop dungeon crawls, especially done as MMO adventures, would add anything of note to a narrative roleplaying game.

To me, and I'm guessing most people, the real defining aspect that makes something a MMO, is a world where every player is running around in the same world at the same time. Coop missions are only a small part of MMOs and certainly not unique or original to them.