1807 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

Basically what the other's have said except that if they removed it from the radial when using a 'CONTROLLER" (not just console, mind you) it implies a direct design choice in only having 8 abilities at the ready in combat. Which makes me, at least, believe the PC keyboard/Mouse interface will only have 8 hotkey bar. If it does not, then they are specifically limiting controllers - and only controllers - for no reason what so ever which just kinda seems like a dick move.

 

If your going to limit the game and balance around that, it's best to do it for everything and not give 1 type of control scheme a large advantage. With the radial menu in the past 2 games it gave controller use access to all the stuff you could slot via the ever-expanding hotkey bar.

[The Night Haunter]

I don't play on PC, but is there something that could be different on the PC UI that would be a big 'giveaway' for MP?

If they force a limit of 8 abilities at a time on the PC UI it is a strong indication of MP, as there are literally no other reasons to limit the number of available active abilities on the PC.

[Adhin]

Yeah pretty much. There's no reason to limit controller like that either. It's not like they don't have a good solution for it, they've had it on the past 2 games. This **** has to be for MP, that or they REALLY feel it's important to limit things to 8 abilities for some reason.

[The Night Haunter]

Yeah pretty much. There's no reason to limit controller like that either. It's not like they don't have a good solution for it, they've had it on the past 2 games. This **** has to be for MP, that or they REALLY feel it's important to limit things to 8 abilities for some reason.

Or they felt that the wheel was a poor solution and wanted a more real time applicable option, thus 8 mapped buttons. They then, just never implemented the action wheel with abilities. Why? They got lazy? Idk. But there are reasons to 'limit' controllers besides MP. There aren't reasons to limit keyboard besides MP. So we'll know for sure when they either show the PC UI or show MP.

[ElitePinecone]

Radial wheel. That's the word I was thinking of.

 

Yeah, it makes sense that there'd only be an 8-power hotbar for PC, otherwise why have such a big difference across the versions?

[Adhin]

@We Stand Midnight Clad : I disagree greatly with what you just said, and the implication they're being lazy and didn't think about it is rather insulting to BioWare as a whole.

[The Night Haunter]

@We Stand Midnight Clad : I disagree greatly with what you just said, and the implication they're being lazy and didn't think about it is rather insulting to BioWare as a whole.

I didn't say they were lazy, I suggested it as a possible reason. Its more along the lines of 'They have 8 key maps now, so we don't need to waste time implementing the radial menu.' kind of thing.

 

And what part of my post do you disagree with? That MP is the only reason to limit the PC UI? I cannot think of another single reason. Or that there are non MP reasons to change the controller UI? I listed one legitimate reason so...

[Storm King]

I didn't say they were lazy, I suggested it as a possible reason. Its more along the lines of 'They have 8 key maps now, so we don't need to waste time implementing the radial menu.' kind of thing.

 

And what part of my post do you disagree with? That MP is the only reason to limit the PC UI? I cannot think of another single reason. Or that there are non MP reasons to change the controller UI? I listed one legitimate reason so...

I agree with you on the whole but I'll play Devil's advocate I guess; balancing perhaps? Been able to take multiple abilities into battle and just spam them so they limit your ability to do that? Also, a way of adding more 'tactics' to Dragon Age considering the complaints about DA2 been too action focused. *shrugs* Either way, I would like it much more if the PC was allowed to use more than eight abilities; it doesn't reflect the power I envision my Inquisitor wielding if not. 

[Adhin]

@We Stand Midnight Clad: That you think PC doesn't need the limitation when Controller does? Or that because Controller has 8 buttons its 'ok' for it to be limited but keyboard shouldn't be. Fact is both are the same in relation to limitations or no limitations int he GUI. There are 2 reasons to limit and it's a gameplay design choice as a whole or its... the same thing but because of multiplayer.

 

I dunno, I just get a little irritated at the elitist view people hate about a keyboard vs a controller. They ultimately both do the same thing and there is no reason a GUI should be limited on one because someone prefers the other. They're stuck on 8 because of some kind of gameplay reason. The achievement forum seems more and more to be a reality and not faked which makes MP even closer to being a sure thing. So that... is probably the reason. But it's not because keyboard doesn't need such a limitation or whatever elitist view someone feels like spewing.

[The Night Haunter]

@We Stand Midnight Clad: That you think PC doesn't need the limitation when Controller does? Or that because Controller has 8 buttons its 'ok' for it to be limited but keyboard shouldn't be. Fact is both are the same in relation to limitations or no limitations int he GUI. There are 2 reasons to limit and it's a gameplay design choice as a whole or its... the same thing but because of multiplayer.

 

I dunno, I just get a little irritated at the elitist view people hate about a keyboard vs a controller. They ultimately both do the same thing and there is no reason a GUI should be limited on one because someone prefers the other. They're stuck on 8 because of some kind of gameplay reason. The achievement forum seems more and more to be a reality and not faked which makes MP even closer to being a sure thing. So that... is probably the reason. But it's not because keyboard doesn't need such a limitation or whatever elitist view someone feels like spewing.

Well you're taking my post and trying to transform into some pc elitist post, ok. I never said PC > console.controller, I never even implied it. Bioware might not view 8 keycaps as a limitation, it might be they feel that 8 keycaps > 4 keycaps + radial. is 8 keycaps + radial > 8 keymaps? Yes, but maybe they didn't have time to implement both, so they went with what they felt was superior, 8 keymaps.

I never called it a limitation, you did. I said 'limitation' with quotes specifically for that purpose. If you wish to read things that aren't there that is your prerogative, but my post was in no way saying PC > Console. Try again.

[Adhin]

I'm not trying to, but this line you said "But there are reasons to 'limit' controllers besides MP. There aren't reasons to limit keyboard besides MP. So we'll know for sure when they either show the PC UI or show MP." They've had plenty of time man, the GUI people aren't the ones doing everything else it's a different group. It's a design choice, plane and simple. There reasons for limiting controller are going to be the same for limiting keyboard.

 

Maybe you didn't mean for it to sound that way but every time you bring it up, you point out why you think the controller might have it but PC doesn't need such things. Either way Im gonna leave it alone after this post, sorry if I'm coming off as angry.

[SofaJockey]

And we're just trying to figure it out...

Thought it might be a reason why the PC UI hasn't been seen yet.

[TurretSyndrome]

 It's a design choice, plane and simple. There reasons for limiting controller are going to be the same for limiting keyboard.

 

A controller is extremely limited compared to a K/M setup, it always has been. So if the K/M UI has better access to abilities(which has always been the case for most games on PC), it's not because of elevated treatment, it''s because K/M is just so much more accessible. 

 

A very common reason as to why you won't see more than 8 abilities on the controller UI is because more than that, it will be too many abilities to cycle through. Reduce the number and it will be too few. For a keyboard, you should be able to map as many abilities as you want simply because it has more keys. 

 

Even for MP, unless the game supports cross-platform MP or something(which I highly doubt it will), there is no reason for the K/M UI to be gimped on purpose just because a controller is incapable of the same level of accommodation of abilities. That's like not allowing PC to have higher display resolutions because the console versions can't play the game smoothly at more than, say 900p. It would be unfair.

[Storm King]

A controller is extremely limited compared to a K/M setup, it always has been. So if the K/M UI has better access to abilities(which has always been the case for most games on PC), it's not because of elevated treatment, it''s because K/M is just so much more accessible. 

 

A very common reason as to why you won't see more than 8 abilities on the controller UI is because more than that, it will be too many abilities to cycle through. Reduce the number and it will be too few. For a keyboard, you should be able to map as many abilities as you want simply because it has more keys. 

 

Even for MP, unless the game supports cross-platform MP or something(which I highly doubt it will), there is no reason for the K/M UI to be gimped on purpose just because a controller is incapable of the same level of accommodation of abilities. That's like not allowing PC to have higher display resolutions because the console versions can't play the game smoothly at more than, say 900p. It would be unfair.

This^

[The Elder King]

For MP, it depends on how it is designed. For example, in ME3 we only had 3 active abilities, regardless of the version.
The same might happen for DAI MP, with 8 active talents. We'll see how they designed it when/if it'll be announced.

[Adhin]

Guys it's about the RADIAL menu being gone. DAO and DA2 only had 6 abilities mapped (well, 6+6 with weapon swap in DAO). The 'radial' menu for skill use mid combat is 'gone'. That's what im talking about as a design choice. I'm not talking about how hard it is to give more then 6 or 8 skill binds cause that's... misguided view by a lot of people including developers. You could get 8, and it doesn't become that much harder. You could also have sets for tap vs hold. If they did a tap vs hold they'd double total binds to 16 but lets ignore that extremely simple bit of whatever.

 

Point is: Radial Menu for skill use in combat is gone. Which was there original answer to PC having a lot of hotkey buttons. Quite frankly it's a good solution and worked great, no one had any real major issues with it. That is gone now, THAT is the design choice I am speaking off. Not of some controller button limitation. And again, one more time - I am not talking about Console vs PC. Controller vs Keyboard - PC can use a goddamn controller. This isn't a damn platform war, it's simple comparison to what is allowed on JUST the PC.

 

If one GUI is limited vs another on PC it's an odd 'design choice'. It's far more likely both GUI accommodate only 8 skill uses as a design choice. For gameplay purposes and parity (console, pc, pc with controller whatever). I really wish they'd just show the damn PC GUI already.

[TurretSyndrome]

Point is: Radial Menu for skill use in combat is gone. Which was there original answer to PC having a lot of hotkey buttons. Quite frankly it's a good solution and worked great, no one had any real major issues with it. That is gone now, THAT is the design choice I am speaking off. Not of some controller button limitation. And again, one more time - I am not talking about Console vs PC. Controller vs Keyboard - PC can use a goddamn controller. This isn't a damn platform war, it's simple comparison to what is allowed on JUST the PC.

 

If one GUI is limited vs another on PC it's an odd 'design choice'. It's far more likely both GUI accommodate only 8 skill uses as a design choice. For gameplay purposes and parity (console, pc, pc with controller whatever). I really wish they'd just show the damn PC GUI already.

 

No one is talking about Console vs PC. It's not about that. It's about what each platform can do and how far they can be pushed individually(key word). There is no parity to work towards because it is completely irrelevant unless we're talking cross-platform MP, a mode where controllers have to actively compete against K/M. Whatever design choices they made concerning controller UI have been made solely to better the experience with a controller, not as an "answer" to K/M UI.

 

As I said before, I don't see the controller UI getting any better than that. If it had more abilities to cycle through, it might get too cluttered. For K/M, there is no such issue to solve. Remember, there is no parity to keep. K/M UI will always be different to controller UI, doesn't matter if they share a platform.

[Adhin]

I agree, except that the radial menu already did that. Removing a useful feature doesn't improve the quality or gameplay. Having 8 binds is definitely a nice bonus though and I was happy to see that. Hell I'm not even irritated to see the radial menu skill use gone. I just don't think they would remove it to 'improve' controller use. That seems like a silly reason when it doesn't do anything but take an option away.

 

-edit-

Doesn't really matter, more stuffs pointing to those achievements not being faked. Which just means it's that much more likely MP exist so... I'm gonna go ahead and keep thinking this was done, ultimately, for MP purposes.

[aaarcher86]

Understandably the keyboard offers more options than the controller.  The radial menu kind of leveled that though.  Taking it out for one would, IMO, seem that they'd be taking it out for all platforms. 

 

Whether it's for MP or to make the game more tactical and choices more significant, I don't know.

[Beerfish]

I liked the radial menu far more than mapping to the controller.  I guess I'll have to adapt.

 

Also time to revise my mp predictions....

 

My new one, mp will not be the big announcement and will not come out with the game.  However the mp frame work is included on the disk.  The remaining components of mp will be added via dlc at a later date, after the game is out and they have time to properly test mp and make sure it works as intended.  I'll revise this gain once this prediction has been scuttled. 

[AppealToReason]

The main difference with the ME3 MP AoE attacks and the DA mage spells is that some spells have very long casting times in comparison.

 

Examples of them are Viv casting "firestorm" above and the Fem!Qunquisitor casting haste for a good 5 seconds in the e3 ign video:

 

Most ME3 MP skills were instant like reave or had a short travel distance like dark sphere or grenades. Any delay was mitigated by the cooldown timer priming for another anyway.

 

What I'd like to know is if a mage is attacked during the casting animation will they continue or be force canceled.

 

The DPS in in Mass Effect and combat encounters are different though. Venatori and Darkspawn or Demons aren't running around with flame throwers, hand canons and machine guns that'll tear you to shreds if your caste time is long.

 

If positioned properly, they'll be stuck trying to fight their way past a few of your dudes first. Even if they get past, if you have enough of a gap and lead your target for the attack, then it shouldn't be the end of the world, unless you're getting railed by like 6 dudes.

 

It'd be an issue if you got flanked by stealth or whatever, but that's just part of a combat encounter.

[AppealToReason]

Mid-Spell cancelling sound like an excellent way to conserve mana (if we think we'll miss) now that we have a limited amount of potions.

 

I'm just excited for any possible coop this game might offer and the battle system shown so far seems to hint that it's possible to real time everything.

 

Ah tactics and action in equal measure the dream is real!! haha

 

ME had re-load cancelling as well as a handful of abilities where you could roll/melee during the "cast" and avoid the full animation. Gave you some invincibility frames too which saved my butt more than a few times.

[AppealToReason]

Understandably the keyboard offers more options than the controller.  The radial menu kind of leveled that though.  Taking it out for one would, IMO, seem that they'd be taking it out for all platforms. 

 

Whether it's for MP or to make the game more tactical and choices more significant, I don't know.

 

I feel it was part of their thing to make things more tactical. Since they said enemies, except demons maybe, won't be spawning out of thin air they want the player to "scout" ahead a bit and go "Oh, _____ enemies! Gotta add frost weapons, glyph of pwning, etc." while still providing a good number of open ability slots for people who don't give a care.

 

Or even if you do get ambushed, well then you gotta react. Get creative.

[aaarcher86]

I feel it was part of their thing to make things more tactical. Since they said enemies, except demons maybe, won't be spawning out of thin air they want the player to "scout" ahead a bit and go "Oh, _____ enemies! Gotta add frost weapons, glyph of pwning, etc." while still providing a good number of open ability slots for people who don't give a care.

 

Or even if you do get ambushed, well then you gotta react. Get creative.

 

Yeah, it definitely goes in line with limiting potions and no health regen. 

[J-Reyno]

Even for MP, unless the game supports cross-platform MP or something(which I highly doubt it will), there is no reason for the K/M UI to be gimped on purpose just because a controller is incapable of the same level of accommodation of abilities. That's like not allowing PC to have higher display resolutions because the console versions can't play the game smoothly at more than, say 900p. It would be unfair.

There is no parity to work towards because it is completely irrelevant unless we're talking cross-platform MP, a mode where controllers have to actively compete against K/M.

 

This is inaccurate.  PC players can play with a controller.  So if MP is a thing, then yes, parity could be an issue because you are certain to have K/M users alongside players with a controller.