1807 réponses à ce sujet

[Mirrman70]

I download free stuff all the time... its free might as well try it.

[ElitePinecone]

It's much safer to include it on the disc than to hope all of your player base will want to download a large multiplayer DLC.

 

The idea is really silly. Why would they intentionally deny themselves potential customers by cutting them off from MP?

 

(Multiplayer would become opt-in, with a significant cost in terms of download bandwidth. But if it's on the disc, then people can play it from day one and ignore it if they want to.)

[Iakus]

It's much safer to include it on the disc than to hope all of your player base will want to download a large multiplayer DLC.

 

The idea is really silly. Why would they intentionally deny themselves potential customers by cutting them off from MP?

 

(Multiplayer would become opt-in, with a significant cost in terms of download bandwidth. But if it's on the disc, then people can play it from day one and ignore it if they want to.)

 

You'd need the internet connection and the account to play MP anyway.  Nobody would be "cut off" if it was a free DLC.

 

But I really wouldn't want a "Why U no MP?" screen on the main menu, like ME3's Galactic Readiness screen.

[ElitePinecone]

Nobody would be "cut off" if it was a free DLC.

 

Downloading very large files is one more barrier in the way of people starting up the game and having the option to immediately jump into multiplayer. It's one more obstacle that might make people think MP is too much effort to bother with. 

 

If the choice was between having it on the disc and making it a DLC, what possible reason (disc space aside) is there for doing the latter?

[Allan Schumacher]

At the risk of "stamp of legitimacy" that some will conclude, it's also important to note that it'd be cheaper for us to ship it on disc because Sony, for example, passes the cost of the bandwidth on to the publisher.

 

So there's actually a disincentive for making it downloadable and as such there'd have to be a good reason to do so (i.e. it can't already fit on the disc or something else like that).

 

But yes, other barriers.

[DisturbedJim83]

Downloading very large files is one more barrier in the way of people starting up the game and having the option to immediately jump into multiplayer. It's one more obstacle that might make people think MP is too much effort to bother with. 

 

If the choice was between having it on the disc and making it a DLC, what possible reason (disc space aside) is there for doing the latter?

Because it completely eliminates almost all chance of it infecting SP as ME3 did pre patch, ensuring that those who want it can have it and those who will never be interested in it dont ever have to even see it.

 

Ubisoft did that with Watch Dogs(including it on the disc) and not only that it was enabled by default so unless you were aware of it you could be playing your SP campaign only to have some doofus come into your game and hack you, if any kind of MP co-op or otherwise is to be included on the disc then it should be disabled by default, or a entirely separate mode a la Sniper Elite 3.

 

I spend most of my time at work having to deal with other people and in most cases their silly trivial issues like acting as if its the end of the world because they can't find a tablecloth that matches the shade of their curtains blah blah blah.

 

So when I use what little spare time I have to sit down and play a videogame to escape from all that trivial nonsense then whether or not to interact with others should be on my terms,not forced upon me in order to get a specific ending/weapon/armor set etc.Sure it was a different team who did ME3 and sure it was patched out later on,however the reason alot of people myself included are wary is because someone at BW clearly thought that requiring MP participation in order to get enough GR to get the best SP ending was a good idea, its highly likely that had their not been a ton of bad publicity about both that and the endings that it would not have been changed.

 

The point is that it should have never been set up that way in the first place, SP should never ever in any way whatsoever be affected to any degree no matter how slight by MP.

[DisturbedJim83]

At the risk of "stamp of legitimacy" that some will conclude, it's also important to note that it'd be cheaper for us to ship it on disc because Sony, for example, passes the cost of the bandwidth on to the publisher.

 

So there's actually a disincentive for making it downloadable and as such there'd have to be a good reason to do so (i.e. it can't already fit on the disc or something else like that).

 

But yes, other barriers.

I have no problem with it being on the disc so long as it is entirely optional,and has no effect on the SP campaign such as requiring playing MP to get a specific ending or a unique weapon,new level/mission etc 

[DragonKingReborn]

At the risk of "stamp of legitimacy" that some will conclude, it's also important to note that it'd be cheaper for us to ship it on disc because Sony, for example, passes the cost of the bandwidth on to the publisher.

 

So there's actually a disincentive for making it downloadable and as such there'd have to be a good reason to do so (i.e. it can't already fit on the disc or something else like that).

 

But yes, other barriers.

 

That's fair enough.

 

Why not a second (or third, or fourth, or whatever) disc?  Totally removed from the install process of the SP game, entirely optional to put into your PC/console, and, I'm guessing by default extension of that, totally and indisputably removed from the SP campaign.

[SofaJockey]

At the risk of "stamp of legitimacy" that some will conclude, it's also important to note that it'd be cheaper for us to ship it on disc because Sony, for example, passes the cost of the bandwidth on to the publisher.

So there's actually a disincentive for making it downloadable and as such there'd have to be a good reason to do so (i.e. it can't already fit on the disc or something else like that).

But yes, other barriers.

 

Taking your contribution as entirely conceptual Allan   .

 

I recall there was something along similar lines about why DLC characters would require some loading on the game disc even if the character would follow by DLC and that this was part of the rationale for not having DLC characters this time. In any case with such a fine cast, why have more.

 

[DragonKingReborn]

Optional free DLC also makes no sense.

 

At least having it on the disc in the main menu means some people will try it out of curiosity.

 

(And if it's in DA:I, and decoupled from the singleplayer like many people seem to want, then getting people to play it might be a concern for the team. Why make that worse by making it DLC?)

 

If getting people to play the MP is a concern, then perhaps it is not a popular as proponents of it would have others believe.

 

If I like having a roof rack on my car, and the car is only available without a roof rack, but I could get a roof rack for free post purchase, I would absolutely do so.

 

If I detest roof racks and think they're cheap, tacky and wholly without any redeeming features whatsoever, then I'm unaffected by the ability of everyone else to get their free (allegedly popular) roof racks.

 

While I will likely never play MP of any kind, I get that many people like it.  There are no doubt many good reasons (viewed impartially) why MP should/could be included/available.

 

As long as I have the ability to not have it installed on my PC, I really don't care, because then I know for sure it is in no way integrated with SP.
 

[Heimdall]

Not sure I get the idea that MP "infects" the SP game simply by being on the same disk...

[DragonKingReborn]

Not sure I get the idea that MP "infects" the SP game simply by being on the same disk...

 

Implications?  Tarnished by association?  Preponderance of historical evidence?

 

It may not affect SP at all, but if it is on the same disc, and part of the default install process, then it is possible that it is integrated.

 

Given that MP is a potential additional revenue stream via microtransactions and whatever else, the temptation to drive SP players to the MP campaign would be very strong and understandable.  But there are people that would be vehemently opposed to that, and in fact, consider it to be a breach of trust.  I didn't play any Mass Effect so I wasn't particularly concerned by the ME3 ending dramas that went on, but it sounds like it was a pretty tense time on the ME3 boards immediately post-release.

 

I doubt they will have learned nothing from that exercise - perhaps it was even an honest mistake (maybe the majority of developers at BioWare genuinely believe that people love MP to be integrated into SP) so I'm not convinced that IF MP is present that it WILL affect the SP campaign.  I just don't want it to be a risk.
 

[ghostzodd]

At the risk of "stamp of legitimacy" that some will conclude, it's also important to note that it'd be cheaper for us to ship it on disc because Sony, for example, passes the cost of the bandwidth on to the publisher.

 

So there's actually a disincentive for making it downloadable and as such there'd have to be a good reason to do so (i.e. it can't already fit on the disc or something else like that).

 

But yes, other barriers.

 

 

Isn't the xbox 360 disc space extremely limited though, even though it is compressed on the disc?

[Killdren88]

MP would be a waste of time and money on Bioware's part. Keep it with Mass Effect its the only Bioware Game that MP compliments. Keep Dragon Age SP. It will be better off without it.

[ElitePinecone]

That's fair enough.

 

Why not a second (or third, or fourth, or whatever) disc?  Totally removed from the install process of the SP game, entirely optional to put into your PC/console, and, I'm guessing by default extension of that, totally and indisputably removed from the SP campaign.

 

I'm guessing there are significant costs associated with manufacturing a second disc entirely for MP. 

 

A separate MP disc *might* be the best solution for people on the BSN who are terrified of multiplayer and who freak out about its existence. That's fine. You might really appreciate having the option to not install it. 

 

But is it the best business solution? At some point it becomes actively harmful to accommodate fan requests. If putting MP on a separate disc is going to cost them X amount of zots, and lose them Y amount of future business from people who end up never installing it, why would they every do this if the "benefit" was less than X+Y? 

 

The peace of mind given to the "freak out about MP" section of the fanbase might very well not be worth as much as the money they'd make from everyone else trying out and playing the MP if it were on the same disc.

[ElitePinecone]

I'm not convinced that IF MP is present that it WILL affect the SP campaign.  I just don't want it to be a risk.

 

 

Surely this will become obvious the moment they announce it - if they do announce it - with clarification of MP's impact on the singleplayer. 

 

I mean, the MP being on the disc has literally no relationship at all to SP-MP integration, if they've already decided that it will or won't happen. 

[Morroian]

Implications?  Tarnished by association?  Preponderance of historical evidence?

 

It may not affect SP at all, but if it is on the same disc, and part of the default install process, then it is possible that it is integrated.

 

If it has no affect on SP so what?

[In Exile]

Surely this will become obvious the moment they announce it - if they do announce it - with clarification of MP's impact on the singleplayer. 

 

I mean, the MP being on the disc has literally no relationship at all to SP-MP integration, if they've already decided that it will or won't happen. 

 

You'll find most people will be skeptical. Bioware already basically lied with ME3 when it came to the MP/SP integration. 

[DragonKingReborn]

I'm guessing there are significant costs associated with manufacturing a second disc entirely for MP. 

 

A separate MP disc *might* be the best solution for people on the BSN who are terrified of multiplayer and who freak out about its existence. That's fine. You might really appreciate having the option to not install it. 

 

But is it the best business solution? At some point it becomes actively harmful to accommodate fan requests. If putting MP on a separate disc is going to cost them X amount of zots, and lose them Y amount of future business from people who end up never installing it, why would they every do this if the "benefit" was less than X+Y? 

 

The peace of mind given to the "freak out about MP" section of the fanbase might very well not be worth as much as the money they'd make from everyone else trying out and playing the MP if it were on the same disc.

 

I've got no doubt there would be associated costs with including an additional disc just for MP and I've no doubt at all that the benefit to Bioware of peace of mind for anti-MP folks would be nil.

 

There should be no harm, though, in suggesting *comparatively low cost* options for appeasing people who may not like the idea of having a conduit to what is - in effect - yet another social network in a product they otherwise love.

 

I get that you, and no doubt many, many others think it's silly to try and accommodate this (it certainly isn't rational, insofar as concerns go) but try and consider this angle.  There are some - not me - who think it is silly to accommodate romances.  There are other who think romances are fine, but only "straight" romances.  (Side note: I'd be willing to bet that romances, even just one, costs more in terms of profit margins than MP does.  A romance is not likely to generate more money, whereas MP could).  There are some who think having 'game' rules applied in world should be required to have an in world explanation.  There are a lot of different views on what is "important" about these games and having those views respected - if possible - should be a goal of the developers, provided they can stay true to their vision for the final product, and remain within projected revenue/expense budgets.

 

Also, I'm not sure how many people are terrified or freaking out about MP and it's possible inclusion.  I'm not afraid of MP.  I dislike it, both in practice and in concept.  Same as some people dislike the voiced protagonist.  It's a point of view on a (possible) portion of a product.

 

 

[Sanunes]

I've got no doubt there would be associated costs with including an additional disc just for MP and I've no doubt at all that the benefit to Bioware of peace of mind for anti-MP folks would be nil.

 

There should be no harm, though, in suggesting *comparatively low cost* options for appeasing people who may not like the idea of having a conduit to what is - in effect - yet another social network in a product they otherwise love.

 

I get that you, and no doubt many, many others think it's silly to try and accommodate this (it certainly isn't rational, insofar as concerns go) but try and consider this angle.  There are some - not me - who think it is silly to accommodate romances.  There are other who think romances are fine, but only "straight" romances.  (Side note: I'd be willing to bet that romances, even just one, costs more in terms of profit margins than MP does.  A romance is not likely to generate more money, whereas MP could).  There are some who think having 'game' rules applied in world should be required to have an in world explanation.  There are a lot of different views on what is "important" about these games and having those views respected - if possible - should be a goal of the developers, provided they can stay true to their vision for the final product, and remain within projected revenue/expense budgets.

 

Also, I'm not sure how many people are terrified or freaking out about MP and it's possible inclusion.  I'm not afraid of MP.  I dislike it, both in practice and in concept.  Same as some people dislike the voiced protagonist.  It's a point of view on a (possible) portion of a product.

 

The catch is that what might seem to be a "low cost" option to try and accomodate people would be a lot more expensive then people could or would imagine from labour, chance it might require more media to ship the product, maybe even because of a requirement of a platform it has different restrictions.  An example would be with the PS3, PS4, and XB1 the game is only on one Blu-Ray disk and based on that the game has certain spots for the 360 to be split apart at certain points to fit on the disk content which leads to the PC version being split similar to the 360 version to keep production costs lower instead of looking for a third way to split the game.

[ElitePinecone]

You'll find most people will be skeptical. Bioware already basically lied with ME3 when it came to the MP/SP integration. 

 

I think if there's one overwhelming thing they would've noticed over the past three years or so, it's that many of their fans really dislike it when statements made before launch don't match up with the reality of the game. It happened with DA2 and ME3, and they're specifically trying to avoid it with DA:I by waiting until things are finalised before revealing them.

 

I'm not saying "fans being outraged" will never happen again, but there has to come a point where even the most obstinate company will realise that they have nothing to gain by being deceptive, or by allowing developers to inadvertently promise things that aren't actually in the game. It contributes to a culture of suspicion, a willingness on the part of fans to believe in conspiracy theories,  and a loss of trust and goodwill. It often alienates the hardest of hardcore fans, which means fewer evangelists to go out and sing the praises of the game in their own networks. 

 

All I'm saying is: having experienced twice now the consequences of fans being upset with games that didn't meet their expectations, why on earth would the company blatantly deceive people? They've clearly noticed it's not helping with their reputation, or with the developer-fan relationship.

 

Whether the ME3 and DA2 "misalignments of expectations" (as I think Ray Muzyka called them) were intentional or gigantic mistakes, the fact that they were so severe makes me confident that it won't happen again. I'm actually more trusting of what the company says now, because being dishonest or misleading again seems like a completely self-defeating action.

[Kidd]

MP would be a waste of time and money on Bioware's part. Keep it with Mass Effect its the only Bioware Game that MP compliments. Keep Dragon Age SP. It will be better off without it.

Dragon Age is a spiritual descendant of Baldur's Gate. BG had terrific multiplayer, over ten years before ME3 did.
 
 

You'll find most people will be skeptical. Bioware already basically lied with ME3 when it came to the MP/SP integration.

The "lie" wasn't in the integration. They were very open about the two modes integrating.

The problem came with how you couldn't get the very best variation of the red ending without MP. Considering there were plenty of war assets to be found when scanning through the game files that never triggered in the actual game, it's fully possible that was a mistake. A mistake they should have fixed much sooner than they did, but a mistake nonetheless.

If BioWare were to say there is no integration at all for a potential DAI multiplayer component, then I'd consider that pretty darn final and definite right there.

[Joseph Warrick]

If there's going to be MP I'd prefer for it to be part of the default installation for convenience's sake. I don't want to bother investigating what I have to do to plug it into the game. What game does that? They're all "install", and bam, that's it. If there's MP I will try it so it's better for me if it's already installed.

 

Put it all together imho.

 

I'm more interested in the MP game modes. Because I lack imagination my ideal would be something like SWTOR, playing the campaign with other people like a flashpoint. So you're playing the game normally and then you go to camp and you can invite someone in your Origin list (camp = lobby), and then it's flashpoint mode with a timer in the dialogue wheel and dice rolls for dialogue. The host gets to pick the companions for the remaining party slots. Less banter that way that maybe it could be fun. Unlikely though given that everybody hates SWTOR.

[DisturbedJim83]

If there's going to be MP I'd prefer for it to be part of the default installation for convenience's sake. I don't want to bother investigating what I have to do to plug it into the game. What game does that? They're all "install", and bam, that's it. If there's MP I will try it so it's better for me if it's already installed.

 

Put it all together imho.

 

I'm more interested in the MP game modes. Because I lack imagination my ideal would be something like SWTOR, playing the campaign with other people like a flashpoint. So you're playing the game normally and then you go to camp and you can invite someone in your Origin list (camp = lobby), and then it's flashpoint mode with a timer in the dialogue wheel and dice rolls for dialogue. The host gets to pick the companions for the remaining party slots. Less banter that way that maybe it could be fun. Unlikely though given that everybody hates SWTOR.

I think your missing the point SP by its very definition is entirely detached from any kind of social interaction with others that's why its called "Single Player" as in nobody else but you if you have others its no longer Campaign its Co-Op.

 

Watch Dogs is a prime example of it done badly other players can join freely into your campaign and ruin your play without any kind of vetting or permission required by the host so by the time your aware that it has happened the damage is already done which if mid mission you then have to waste time reloading a save and starting again.Any kind of MP/Co-Op should be a totally separate mode with no hooks into the Campaign, there should never be a mandatory requirement to play MP in order to unlock a new weapon/armor/mission/area/mount etc as was done in ME3 I do not care that it was patched later its irrelevant because somebody thought it was a good idea in the first place makes it a step too far.

 

I never played ME 1 or 2,However I was considering ME 3 until I heard about both the endings and the MP integration into SP,since then I have no intention of ever picking up a ME game, they may be trivial things to you however those 2 major mistakes have tarnished the appeal of that franchise to me beyond repair, no amount of assurances,apologies will ever convince me that they would not try to do that again.

 

I'm an 80's child where playing videogames with others was left to my discretion,sure there are times when I like to go into Sniper Elite 3's MP and snipe some other players,most of the time I have no interest in interacting with other players, having to listen to them moan and complain throwing hissy fits everytime they get beaten by someone else.

 

The point is when it comes to interacting with others as a paying customer the final decision should lie with me,it should never be forced or mandated, the game should never attempt to nudge or nag me into playing MP.Though I suppose in this day and age where most people under the age of 20 feel the need to advertise every mundane decision they make and upload photo's of what they are about to eat to Facebook,Twitter,Instagram etc etc its a hard concept to grasp to have 5 minutes of total peace and quiet not having to listen to other people.

 

I spend most of my time having to deal with other people to earn a living and as annoying as it is it pays well enough,so when I come home after 8hrs of that the absolute last thing I want is to boot up a videogame and deal with that all over again until such time as I am in the mood for it.

[ElitePinecone]

Watch Dogs is a prime example of it done badly 

 

You know you can turn the multiplayer gameplay off in Watch Dogs, right?