52 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Perhaps It's like Star trek: TNG, where you had families of crewmembers about the Enterprise-D, Shepard just stayed on whatever ship his/her parrents were assinged too.

 

Civilians aboard a cramped warship would just get in the way and lower combat effectiveness, not to mention consuming resources and raising operating costs. It is one of the sillier aspects of Star Trek and I'd hate to see that ported into Mass Effect. In any case it seems unlikely, as there were no civilian dependents aboard the Normandy.

 

I think Spacer Shep was just raised on the various military bases his parents were based out of (ships always have a home port) which probably included space stations. The main hub for the Alliance Navy for example, was Arcturus Station. On a side note that might make the Reaper destruction of Arcturus personal for Shepard. It is possible that Spacer Shep grew up there.

[Fixers0]

Civilians aboard a cramped warship would just get in the way and lower combat effectiveness, not to mention consuming resources and raising operating costs. It is one of the sillier aspects of Star Trek and I'd hate to see that ported into Mass Effect. In any case it seems unlikely, as there were no civilian dependents aboard the Normandy.

 

Actually, within the context of the Star Trek setting it makes more sense then you'd make it appear here and most of your arguments don't apply to starfleet at all or in a much limited matter. Things like costs and resources are all but irrelvant for example, and most starfleet vessels are quite spacious, mostly to accodomate addtional facilities such as room for families. Of course there were certain vessels that are primarily desgined for combat (Defiant-Class)  and are much smaller then stadard vessels beceause they don't have to accomdate aforementioned facilities.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Actually, within the context of the Star Trek setting it makes more sense then you'd make it appear here and most of your arguments don't apply to starfleet at all or in a much limited matter. Things like costs and resources are all but irrelvant for example, and most starfleet vessels are quite spacious, mostly to accodomate addtional facilities such as room for families. Of course there were certain vessels that are primarily desgined for combat (Defiant-Class)  and are much smaller then stadard vessels beceause they don't have to accomdate aforementioned facilities.

 

It's very highly doubtful at best that that is the case for the alliance as well, for the reasons that Han described. As I've said, both of my parents were in the Navy, and I (being their civilian dependent) spent most of my time at whatever homeport for whatever ship they happened to be assigned to (or when they were separated by duty stations, whichever one had the shore duty). 

 

It's terribly impractical and unrealistic for Star Trek to portray families the way they did aboard ships, even if they weren't technically a military organization. There are occasional occurrences where a VIP would be aboard a ship, and most ships had a quarters to accommodate them as such, but unless it was family day, or in my case, two Officers were married and high-ranked enough to get around certain restrictions, you almost never saw any ship open to civilians. There'd be the occasional female Sailor or Officer who was pregnant, though they would typically be very well-prepared for ahead of time where said Sailor or Officer would be rotated to a shore installation for the duration of their pregnancy and their mandatory 3 month maternity leave (although when I was born, my Mom told me that wasn't the case, since the military wasn't very considerate to women's needs, being the late 80's and all. She was lucky she was an Officer and that Dad had some pull to get a staff duty for two years in California. Otherwise, she'd have had me in some third world hospital and be expected to report for office the next day.)

[Fixers0]

It's very highly doubtful at best that that is the case for the alliance as well, for the reasons that Han described. As I've said, both of my parents were in the Navy, and I (being their civilian dependent) spent most of my time at whatever homeport for whatever ship they happened to be assigned to (or when they were separated by duty stations, whichever one had the shore duty). 

 

certainly the Alliance is hardly comparable to Starfleet, still we know that at least in Shepard's instance he/she spent most of their your on ships and stations. Under what circumstances this occured is unclear, but there is atleast some evidence thats suggest the Alliance allows children to remain on their vessels.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

certainly the Alliance is hardly comparable to Starfleet, still we know that at least in Shepard's instance he/she spent most of their your on ships and stations. Under what circumstances this occured is unclear, but there is atleast some evidence thats suggest the Alliance allows children to remain on their vessels.

 

What evidence is that? I never saw any evidence that children would stay on a ship. 

[Fixers0]

What evidence is that? I never saw any evidence that children would stay on a ship. 

 

The game mentions several that if the spacer background is chosen, Shepard's youth is spent aboard starpships, the character creation descriptions mentions this as well.

[Farangbaa]

Udina will also say it in the intro of ME1

'Well, what about Shepard? He's a spacer, lived aboard starships most of his life'

[MassivelyEffective0730]

More critical research failure on BW's part then. 

 

They should just stop writing about militaries in general.

[Han Shot First]

I ignore the mention of space ships and assume they are referring to space stations, as it doesn't make any sense for Alliance civilians (particularly children) to be aboard warships, and we don't see any examples of that being the case throughout the series. 

 

Also if civilian dependents were allowed on warships Anderson would have never ended up divorced. His career (and time spent apart from his family) killed his marriage.

 

 

 

Fixers0, on 07 Jul 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:
Actually, within the context of the Star Trek setting it makes more sense then you'd make it appear here and most of your arguments don't apply to starfleet at all or in a much limited matter. Things like costs and resources are all but irrelvant for example, and most starfleet vessels are quite spacious, mostly to accodomate addtional facilities such as room for families. Of course there were certain vessels that are primarily desgined for combat (Defiant-Class)  and are much smaller then stadard vessels beceause they don't have to accomdate aforementioned facilities.

 

The cost and resource-consumption are less of an issue in Star Trek, but the inclusion of all sorts of civilians on Starfleet vessels I still think is one of the sillier aspects of that series. Should those vessels get into a combat engagement those people would either be in the way and/or could potentially lower combat effectiveness. You wouldn't want your crew distracted by a bunch of panicking civilians. You'd probably have to assign crew members just to keep them in one place during a combat engagement, and prevent the more obnoxious among them from storming onto the bridge demanding to know what is going on. 

[Farangbaa]

Entire game sucks now.

[Fixers0]

More critical research failure on BW's part then. 

 

They should just stop writing about militaries in general.

 

While I criticized Bioware for the blatant dumb tactics employed in Mass Effect 3. I won't deny them creative freedom to write a future naval organisation that adhers to different standards than a modern day navy as long as those rules consistent, both internally and with the universe itself. 

[zestalyn]

 

I always imagined my earthborn Shepard hailing from Brooklyn. I wonder what my neighborghood would look like 200 years from now. I imagine there'd be a lot more bars and cafes, and cookie-cutter condominiums stretching far as the eye can see. I can see overcrowding having a seriously negative effect on the area. Can't build out, so you have to build up. I can picture the Dredd-like high rises.

hmm I suppose if I had to pick a borough I'd think the Bronx has the highest chance of remaining the most 'grimy' at that point. Nowadays people still don't want to touch the Bronx, while yuppie transplants and their high rise/coop developments have begun to transform half of Brooklyn and Queens. Now that you mention overcrowding in Brooklyn, I can imagine all of the outer-boroughs all having their own highly-developed skylines, too. So weird.. *shudder* 

 

[shepskisaac]

NYC for my earthborn, just cause it's my city, and appropriately hard/full of gang activity. Although, I do find it somewhat hard to imagine NYC would actually retain any of its dirty and grimy glory by the 22nd century (yay gentrification) 

It could, or it could have none, or it could be most dangerous city on the planet. 150+ years is such a stupid long time for a city to change in any possible direction (way more abrupt changes than entire countries as a whole) it could be anything. Some of the largest cities in the world didn't even exist 50 years ago (like Shenzen)

[MassivelyEffective0730]

While I criticized Bioware for the blatant dumb tactics employed in Mass Effect 3. I won't deny them creative freedom to write a future naval organisation that adhers to different standards than a modern day navy as long as those rules consistent, both internally and with the universe itself. 

 

Being in the military, I want them to portray the military accurately. There are a lot of things that are constants throughout militaries that are not subject to 'artistic interpretation' that would be true of any military force. Their standards are not logical either in-universe or out.

[Fixers0]

Being in the military, I want them to portray the military accurately. There are a lot of things that are constants throughout militaries that are not subject to 'artistic interpretation' that would be true of any military force. Their standards are not logical either in-universe or out.

 

I have to disagree with you on this one. They're a lot writing principles that put boundries to the author's imagnation, Yet it would be absurd to demand that every fictional military organisation should be representative for a contemporary one, espcially considering all the factors that seperate the fictional miliary from the real one. A good narrative generally abides to the implicit rules storytelling, such as conistancy and non-contrivance. The explicit idea that militaries should be perfectly accurate representations of their modern day counterparts is rather absurds and does not contribute to improve the quality of the narrative.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I have to disagree with you on this one. They're a lot writing principles that put boundries to the author's imagnation, Yet it would be absurd to demand that every fictional military organisation should be representative for a contemporary one, espcially considering all the factors that seperate the fictional miliary from the real one. A good narrative generally abides to the implicit rules storytelling, such as conistancy and non-contrivance. The explicit idea that militaries should be perfectly accurate representations of their modern day counterparts is rather absurds and does not contribute to improve the quality of the narrative.

 

Your disagreement is illogical with the standards of the military. It's not absurd to say that the military values and discipline and standards wouldn't change in the future. As I said, military procedure, especially for a military based on Western militaries is not something that you can change values and ideology for just because it suits your story, especially when you try to portray it realistically. And yes, making it technically accurate usually does improve narrative. Otherwise, you listed very subjective ideals to narrative writing that is hardly true or objective. 

 

To be frank, author imagination does not extend to things that the author wishes to keep realistic, especially when it is based off of real standards. Otherwise, it breaks the narrative by being unrealistic, which is ironic considering their intent.

 

It's bad writing.

[Fixers0]

Your disagreement is illogical with the standards of the military. It's not absurd to say that the military values and discipline and standards wouldn't change in the future. As I said, military procedure, especially for a military based on Western militaries is not something that you can change values and ideology for just because it suits your story, especially when you try to portray it realistically. And yes, making it technically accurate usually does improve narrative. Otherwise, you listed very subjective ideals to narrative writing that is hardly true or objective. 

 

Impliticly, probably yes, audiances expect militaries to conform to certain standards. Explicitly, no, there's not a narrative standard that dictates that future fictional militaries should be accurate representation of their modern day couterparts.

 

So, no, the quality of a fictional military is not determined by whether it's an accurrate  portrayal of a contemporary one.

 

 To be frank, author imagination does not extend to things that the author wishes to keep realistic, especially when it is based off of real standards. Otherwise, it breaks the narrative by being unrealistic, which is ironic considering their intent.

 

Where did you get the idea that Bioware's intent was to make the Alliance a realistic representation of modern (western)navy?

 

I can't recall any occassion where a Mass Effect writer admitted to such  an intent.

[KaiserShep]

A more convincing portrayal of the military would be nice, but it's not something I'd consider a high priority in a space opera like Mass Effect, especially since most players probably don't know or care what the real military is like anyway.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

A more convincing portrayal of the military would be nice, but it's not something I'd consider a high priority in a space opera like Mass Effect, especially since most players probably don't know or care what the real military is like anyway.

 

When they base it off of hard sci-fi (it's in the middle ground on the scale of hardness, slightly moving to the lighter end as the series goes on) and a hypothetical future, as well as a heavy emphasis on the military, I basically expect them to portray the military convincingly and if they make any unrealistic changes, to have a very good in-game explanation for them. 

 

I'd be surprised if people who played the game didn't know or care about it, but then I met David/Blob who has professed such a thing and still tries to pass his opinions off as realistic (like Liara somehow being trained by Shepard in a matter of weeks from civilian to special-forces level operator, without any of the difficulties associated with it, and combined with sexual and romantic tension.) 

 

That's just terribad. About as terrible as BW's portrayal of realistic militaries.

[themikefest]

I like for it to be consistent. The saluting in ME3 was horrible. 

[dreamgazer]

I like for it to be consistent. The saluting in ME3 was horrible. 

 

That was a shame, but a few areas (likely many) were because of programming issues instead of authorial intent, such as Kaidan's recruitment salute that switches from left arm to right mid-salute.

[Farangbaa]

Somehow that reminds me of TIM's... peculiar right hand on Mars.

[von uber]

Detroit, US:

Cork, Ireland:

Basildon, UK:

Tehran, Iran:

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

To be fair, the ships in ME are far less cramped than modern navy vessels. Walk through a ship like the Missouri, which still saw action in the Gulf War, and compare it to how spacious the SR-1 is. Then remember that even the largest vessels, the Nimitz-class Carriers are only one third the length of a dreadnought, and presumably far skinnier. Then there are carriers, dreadnought-sized vessels that probably have a very large flight deck. 

About Star Trek, the Enterprise isn't a dedicated warship, at least not in TNG. It's more of a scientific and exploration vessel.

[Massa FX]

My Earthborn Shepard is from NYC by way of the Midwest. She was a member of the Red's which was one of the most ruthless murderous gangs in the city at that time. Her parents were alcoholics and druggies. She left home after they sold her to a junkie pimp for a case of beer and some weed. At the tender age of 10 she stowed away on a freighter headed to NYC and lived on the streets until a Red member took her in and taught her all she needed to know about grifting and dirty fighting. By 14 she had a posse of grifters under her wing. She protected them, fed them, and provided for them. She helped some go home, if that's what they wanted. Shepard always was a leader and protector of the innocent (okay, they weren't all that innocent).

 

The Red's were good to her, but she wanted more out of life. At 18 she joined the Alliance and her fate was sealed.

Modifié par Massa FX, 10 juillet 2014 - 05:22 .