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Poll: Did you kill or spare the Architect


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#101
IntoTheDarkness

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Killed. I am not going to risk intelligent darkspawn biting me in the back. It will be even harder to defeat than true blight. All intelligent darkspawn should be eliminated.

 

The same goes for other supernatural beings that can threaten humanity, such as vampires and werewolves. It's not about right or wrong, but about survival.

 

Of course if were to have the similar issue in real life(sentient clone or robot for instance), it would have to be looked at different perspectives, but as far as medieval ages go, there is so much mercy you can have without risking your own survival.



#102
Willowhugger

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I killed him because the Intelligent Darkspawn went to war with one another.

That might save the world if they're as vicious to each other as they are to regular people.

There's the downside intelligent Darkspawn mean that the Blights will NEVER end but that ship has sailed.



#103
Ieldra

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I spared him, plainly, because that is the more interesting outcome. And because ambiguity is more interesting than a certainty I don't have about anything anyway. In-world, I think the intelligent darkspawn deserve a chance.

#104
Willowhugger

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I think the Darkspawn are abominations against the Maker but I figure a spanner in the works against them would be a good thing.



#105
Lavaeolus

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I think the Darkspawn are abominations against the Maker

Well, technically speaking, He may have created them in the first place...
 
Ah, but I suppose this is not the place to get into a discussion about the existence and actions of a god of an already fictional setting.



#106
Willowhugger

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Well, technically speaking, He may have created them in the first place...
 
Ah, but I suppose this is not the place to get into a discussion about the existence and actions of a god of an already fictional setting.

 

Hell, the Maker may not exist.

So there's that too.



#107
Neverwinter_Knight77

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My idealist spared the Architect. All of my other Wardens killed him. Blight or no, the taint still poisons everyone and everything in its vicinity.

From a gameplay standpoint though, I hated having to fight him. I'm so glad I'll have the Keep to handle that from now on.

#108
bazzag

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I always killed him, but wondered 'would it be such a bad thing to spare him? Stopping the blights forever would be a good thing wouldn't it?'

 

Then I read The Calling.



#109
MKDAWUSS

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My Warden killed him. Didn't trust him.

Not to mention that in Awakening alone he has a poor track record.

My Hawke would have spared him, though.



#110
Umbar

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I just finished Awakening yesterday and my Warden spared him. I have been agonizing over whether that decision was in-character since.

 

Here's how I looked at it at that moment -

 

Does the Architect deserve to die: The Architect is responsible for the attack on Vigil's Keep. It may have been a misunderstanding, but people died. The Architect, through his agent the Seeker, is also responsible for the death of the Dalish Elves in the Wending Wood and partially responsible for Velanna going crazy and murdering all those merchants.

 

My Warden chose to execute Loghain for his crimes. The Architect fits the bill for that sort of justice as well, from her estimation.

 

However, if the Architect is right and this reverse Joining can free darkspawn from the control of the Old Gods/Archdemons, what are the possibilities?

 

Best-case Scenario: The freed darkspawn have run the gamut from insane (The Mother) to devious (The Lost) to loyal and helpful (The Messenger). From this reduced sample, we can imagine that a race of darkspawn would be just as diverse in their outlook and mentality as any other race. If the darkspawn are truly freed from the urge to seek out and awaken the Old Gods, the Blights can be pushed back centuries or even postponed indefinitely. Most importantly, the darkspawn assault on Orzammar might weaken or even cease. The example of Armaas, the Tal-vashoth merchant, shows that these intelligent darkspawn can even honour trade agreements. The taint is still an issue, but any disease can be cured or contained.

 

Worst-case Scenario: The Blights are dangerous, because Archdemons are fiendishly intelligent and compel the darkspawn to attack the surface lands, making them an organized army instead of a horde of mindless monsters. What do we see when a Blight ends and intelligent darkspawn are running around on their own? Organized armies attacking the surface lands. Intelligent darkspawn potentially means unending Blights, where darkspawn forces are capable of coordinated assault in the absence of an Archdemon leading them. This is an incredible threat. Intelligent darkspawn can also mean more concentrated efforts to find and release the Old Gods, meaning instead of centuries between Blights, it can be decades.

 

To sum up, best-case scenario - Darkspawn cease their assaults and you can treat with them as much as you can treat with any other race. Wonderful.

 

Worst-case scenario - Darkspawn never cease their assaults and continue to plague the lands, even after a true Blight has ended. Horrible.

 

On the face of it, being a Grey Warden, you should err for the status quo and kill the Architect. The chances of things going bad are high (especially when you later learn the Architect in his naivete was responsible for awakening Urthemiel and starting the Fifth Blight). I play my City Elf Warden as compassionate and empathetic, but also pragmatic. She destroyed the Anvil of the Void and refused to leave Amaranthine to it's fate for example, but she also betrayed Harrowmont and chose Bhelen for the throne and convinced Alistair to do the Dark Ritual, knowing the risks of letting Morrigan bring some Old God/human abomination into the world. She does the right thing, but she is fully willing to do heinous things to succeed if necessary.

 

Like someone further up the thread, I also hoped that there would be the opportunity to engage the Architect after the fight with the Mother was over, but that was not to be. So, my Warden spared the Architect, going through the following thought process -

 

The Mother and the Architect are enemies and the Architect is a potential ally against the Mother. The Mother is aggressively hostile to everyone; the Architect's motives are far more ambiguous. He can help. I can deal with him later.

 

If the Architect is right - and there is a former Grey Warden following him...maybe that's a stamp of approval of sorts - and these darkspawn stop trying to cause another Blight or attack Orzammar...that's great

 

But then the first thing they did after becoming intelligent was have a civil war and raid surface lands. So...

 

A series of mini-Blights can be a horrible thing. But I have seen the darkspawn can be helpful and averse to violence...if this idiot learns from his mistakes...the assaults on Orzammar may be weakened and the next Blight may be pushed back a long time, if there are darkspawn actively working to prevent it...if nothing else, with the Mother dead, the Architect will lead the darkspawn and I believe him when he says he does not want a Blight...

 

'Very well. You have an ally."

 

Of course, then you find out the Architect caused a Blight in trying to avoid a Blight, so...At least the Epilogue shows it paid off in the short term, with darkspawn forces retreating underground and not coming up for at least a decade after Awakening.



#111
Umbar

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Holy crap, that was a huge post....



#112
Riven326

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I spared him. He and my warden have a common goal.



#113
TheMadHarridan

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I've only played Awakening twice (once years ago and then again recently). I know my Warden from years ago spared him because she hoped he could really stop the Blights. However, my Warden that I just finished last week killed him. She didn't make deals with darkspawn, especially ones that attacked her Keep and experimented on her friends and fellow Wardens. 

 

I loved his voice though. So calm and polite, yet diabolical. :)



#114
WarriorOfLight999

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Killed him. There are a few reasons for this:

 

1) His plans are ineffective. I believe he makes his offer in good faith, but he has consistently failed with each effort, whereas the Grey Wardens have defeated 5 Blights over the span of centuries.(I use The Calling as a reference.) If the Architect could cure the Taint itself, that would be something. But he can't do that, or anything else.

2) The dwarves ALWAYS have to contend with darkspawn. Doing this, they would now be contending with intelligent darkspawn. Why do this to our traditional allies?

3) Justice. His actions have resulted in the deaths of countless innocents, and if left to his own devices, he will only bring about more suffering.



#115
MonkeynKnot

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I spared him.

 

I see him trying to do something right for his brothers though starting the blight that the warden had to stop. He didn't attack the Keep it was the mother trying to stop you because she thinks you are working with him. When my warden was protecting the city he sent on of his own free willed darkspawn to come and warns me  that you must protect the keep. If he wanted me to die or anymore wardens to die he wouldn't of done that. And you can convince that darkspawn to help fight with you. I believe he knows right from wrong. He even said he wants to stop the mother but he can't go near her. 



#116
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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He didn't attack the Keep it was the mother trying to stop you because she thinks you are working with him.

Now this is just not true. The Architect flat-out admits that he sent the Withered. He claims that this was a diplomatic effort that in retrospect he should have known would be seen as an attack, but that seems to me to be impossible to reconcile with what we know of what happened. Honestly, the only way I can see that he isn't just flatly lying is if he picked absolutely the wrong "diplomat."



#117
Jedi Master of Orion

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Now this is just not true. The Architect flat-out admits that he sent the Withered. He claims that this was a diplomatic effort that in retrospect he should have known would be seen as an attack, but that seems to me to be impossible to reconcile with what we know of what happened. Honestly, the only way I can see that he isn't just flatly lying is if he picked absolutely the wrong "diplomat."

 

Not really. We know from his diaries that his Awakened darkspawn are very independent minded and he exerts very little direct control over them AND that both he and they seem clueless about how to deal with other races. The Withered seems to want to take Varel away "gently" despite all the murder he also caused. It's not exactly hard for me to believe he's a little on the aggressive and clumsy side and that the Architect wouldn't know that.

 

As for myself I spared him twice and killed him once. I'm pretty comfortable with that decision, I probably would have killed him much more often if I knew about his plan in the Calling but I should never have to know ancillary materials to make an informed choice so don't really regret it.



#118
MonkeynKnot

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Now this is just not true. The Architect flat-out admits that he sent the Withered. He claims that this was a diplomatic effort that in retrospect he should have known would be seen as an attack, but that seems to me to be impossible to reconcile with what we know of what happened. Honestly, the only way I can see that he isn't just flatly lying is if he picked absolutely the wrong "diplomat."

I looked it up and you are right about the "attack" though it does seem to be a poor choice on his part. What did he expect sending a bunch of darkspawn to a grey warden keep? Even though it was to talk yes i would attack them too. I don't think it was the wrong diplomat. Almost like sending a krogan to talk civil to the salarians. 



#119
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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I looked it up and you are right about the "attack" though it does seem to be a poor choice on his part. What did he expect sending a bunch of darkspawn to a grey warden keep? Even though it was to talk yes i would attack them too. I don't think it was the wrong diplomat. Almost like sending a krogan to talk civil to the salarians. 

The problem is that from all we can tell the darkspawn actions are absolutely not consistent with The Withered being there to talk. Everyone we run into tells us with no hesitation that it was a sneak attack through the tunnels wherein the Wardens had no time at all to prepare. The Architect claims that the Wardens misunderstood The Withered's intentions, but unless every single person who had the ability to move freely through the Vigil was lying to us in concert that's not true. If there was a misunderstanding (and we can't be sure of that) it was on the part of the Withered, who either did not understand the Architect when he said that he only wanted to talk, or just completely misunderstood what "diplomacy" is.



#120
Aren

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The architect is even more dangerous than the mindless archedemons, the taint have no influence on him and he cannot die like corypheus.



#121
Merle McClure II

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Where does it say that the Architect is immortal? We know that Corypheus can use his bodyhop trick in a pinch, so I suppose it's possible that the Architect kept the creepy elven sister around to jump into her body after the Warden slayed him and the dwarven ghoul. 



#122
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Where does it say that the Architect is immortal? We know that Corypheus can use his bodyhop trick in a pinch, so I suppose it's possible that the Architect kept the creepy elven sister around to jump into her body after the Warden slayed him and the dwarven ghoul. 

Aren frequently necromances threads with reaching assertions like that. In this case I think his logic (though he does not state it) is that the Architect is probably a being like Corypheus (which is questionable) and therefore has his bodyhop trick (which is questionable even were we to accept that premise.)



#123
Merle McClure II

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Ah ... although I hope that they don't turn the Architect into Cory Jr ... I wouldn't mind him being able to Body Surf into the elven sister ... PROVIDED that that don't try to turn him into a "good guy" and make sparing him the "right choice" like they did with saving the Bug Queen in Mass Effect.



#124
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Ah ... although I hope that they don't turn the Architect into Cory Jr ... I wouldn't mind him being able to Body Surf into the elven sister ... PROVIDED that that don't try to turn him into a "good guy" and make sparing him the "right choice" like they did with saving the Bug Queen in Mass Effect.

You might want to prepare yourself for disappointment: while I believe that there's more evidence that this is a mistake than there is evidence to the contrary, there is some potential benefit to the alliance.



#125
Merle McClure II

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Well personally I figure that they'll "God Child" the decision if they actually address it in detail at all.