Thanks. I think I remember it, but I only sided with Orsino in one playthrough, so I can't recall enough to make a proper statement on it. I tried to watch it on Youtube, but I can't find a walkthrough with subtitles. Does it actually mention specifically that Meredith orders the families to be killed, or is it implied like the other rumors were, or what?
It is implied. Meredith is insane but not stupid. She has plausibility deniability.
I actually just watched a Let's Play with the quest. Annnnd... again... no real evidence. The Templar that is threatening the lady that fed her apostate cousin is cut off before he can actually SAY what the penalty is and then the rest is Hawke randomly killing Templars who say absolutely nothing and a noble woman giving her interpretation of the events. The templars never say what they're doing. They show up and suddenly they start murdering each other. A terribly ill-written quest if you ask me because there is nothing going on other than "kill some Templars" and "Nobles don't like Meredith".
The mission refers to them as Meredith's "death squad".
At least with on The Last Holdouts there is some you know... meat to it. There is a clear narrative and you have an opportunity to see the whole schism in the Templar Order between the bullies and the moderates standing up to them and you still kill Templars.
Gaining allies among the nobility who oppose Meredith's dictatorship and rescuing a woman from a templar death squad sounds fairly clear to me.
I would recommend siding with Meredith the next time you do Act III because The Noble Agenda is a TERRIBLE quest from start to finish.
I don't see much point in siding with Meredith if you disagree with her, even less so if you disagree with the status quo of the Chantry controlled Circles.
Thanks. I think I remember it, but I only sided with Orsino in one playthrough, so I can't recall enough to make a proper statement on it. I tried to watch it on Youtube, but I can't find a walkthrough with subtitles. Does it actually mention specifically that Meredith orders the families to be killed, or is it implied like the other rumors were, or what?
The noble lady says that Meredith is going too far and leaves after giving you a scroll.
Which you can't actually read.
The quest description just straight up tells you to "Kill Meredith's hand picked zealots "purging" mage sympathizers" and to raid one of her hidden supply caches. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NPhCrrwqVpI Most of the quest is here. The rest is here
But yeah... you have this noble lady trying to rile up other nobles against Meredith. By randomly killing Templars? It makes no sense. You never catch the Templars in any wrong doing. You have a creepy guy intimidating a peasant, but you interrupt him because he can actually say what he is gonna do to her and a noble man that is afraid of Meredith that tries to kill the others when... Templars come by on patrol? Actually there to stop the nobles? Walking by to get the Hanged Man? Who knows? You murdered them before they could say anything.
More evidence that the Pro-Mage side of the game got the worst of the cut content.
The mission refers to them as Meredith's "death squad".
Gaining allies among the nobility who oppose Meredith's dictatorship and rescuing a woman from a templar death squad sounds fairly clear to me.
I don't see much point in siding with Meredith if you disagree with her, even less so if you disagree with the status quo of the Chantry controlled Circles.
Game calls them "hand picked zealots" actually... and you actually have no evidence that they were actually killing anyone. Just this lady's word.
Also. The siding with Meredith conversation that takes to activate The Last Holdouts is just telling Orsino he shouldn't be screaming in the streets. Which is a good idea no matter what side of the conflict you are on.
I am just saying, as a narrative criticism... The Last Holdouts is a much better quest to experience. You kill ACTUAL blood mages, not just suspected ones and you end it by killing more Templars. Sounds like a good quest for EITHER side.
Game calls them "hand picked zealots" actually... and you actually have no evidence that they were actually killing anyone. Just this lady's word.
Actually, the quest calls them Meredith's "death squad". That is literally what is written in the quest entry from Hawke's journal.
Also. The siding with Meredith conversation that takes to activate The Last Holdouts is just telling Orsino he shouldn't be screaming in the streets. Which is a good idea no matter what side of the conflict you are on.
Unless you want to infiltrate and loot a templar stash house (which includes Garahel's Helm), eliminate a death squad, and align with nobles who oppose Meredith's rule.
I am just saying, as a narrative criticism... The Last Holdouts is a much better quest to experience. You kill ACTUAL blood mages, not just suspected ones and you end it by killing more Templars. Sounds like a good quest for EITHER side.
Working with templars to kill mages doesn't appeal to some of us.
Actually, the quest calls them Meredith's "death squad". That is literally what is written in the quest entry from Hawke's journal.
Unless you want to infiltrate and loot a templar stash house (which includes Garahel's Helm), eliminate a death squad, and align with nobles who oppose Meredith's rule.
Working with templars to kill mages doesn't appeal to some of us.
I literally just watched the quest. The journal entry for the quest says "zealots". Not once do they actually say what they are doing. You have this noble woman's POV and that's it. Like I said, it's horribly written.
I just thought that maybe even pro-mages PTs might make exceptions for practicing blood mages which they actually undoubtedly are in The Last Holdouts. My Pro-Mage runs always stomped blood mages.
Also, if you want to compare loot there is this in The Last Holdouts:
I mean... that is some fine craftsmanship.
The noble lady says that Meredith is going too far and leaves after giving you a scroll.
Which you can't actually read.
The quest description just straight up tells you to "Kill Meredith's hand picked zealots "purging" mage sympathizers" and to raid one of her hidden supply caches. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=NPhCrrwqVpI Most of the quest is here. The rest is here
But yeah... you have this noble lady trying to rile up other nobles against Meredith. By randomly killing Templars? It makes no sense. You never catch the Templars in any wrong doing. You have a creepy guy intimidating a peasant, but you interrupt him because he can actually say what he is gonna do to her and a noble man that is afraid of Meredith that tries to kill the others when... Templars come by on patrol? Actually there to stop the nobles? Walking by to get the Hanged Man? Who knows? You murdered them before they could say anything.
More evidence that the Pro-Mage side of the game got the worst of the cut content.
Thanks for that link. It popped up in the search I did, but I assumed it didn't have subtitles. Derrr on my part.
It seemed like a noble agenda, indeed. They seemed more upset that Meredith was in a seat of power more than anything. If Meredith is a known hard-ass, maybe they'd miss out on a lot of concessions, since lobbying her may not work as well. That is my own supposition though. True enough.
Thanks for that link. It popped up in the search I did, but I assumed it didn't have subtitles. Derrr on my part.
It seemed like a noble agenda, indeed. They seemed more upset that Meredith was in a seat of power more than anything. If Meredith is a known hard-ass, maybe they'd miss out on a lot of concessions, since lobbying her may not work as well. That is my own supposition though. True enough.
I mean... it's all well and good in theory but the way it is presented is a mess.
At least in The Last Holdouts you have a clear agenda and all parties involved are transparent. I.e. those are clearly blood mages. Those are clearly innocents. Side with Templar A to save them. Side with Templar B to be an asshat.
Maybe the Blood Mages are innocent too?
I literally just watched the quest. The journal entry for the quest says "zealots". Not once do they actually say what they are doing. You have this noble woman's POV and that's it. Like I said, it's horribly written.
The journal entry reads (upon conclusion): "The knight-commander's death squad was killed".
I just thought that maybe even pro-mages PTs might make exceptions for practicing blood mages which they actually undoubtedly are in The Last Holdouts. My Pro-Mage runs always stomped blood mages.
I much prefer consolidating allies against Meredith and rescuing a woman from a death squad for the crime of feeding her tortured and starving mage cousin.
Maybe the Blood Mages are innocent too?
One of the bloodmages killed his own wife. Doubtful.
The journal entry reads (upon conclusion): "The knight-commander's death squad was killed".
I much prefer consolidating allies against Meredith and rescuing a woman from a death squad for the crime of feeding her tortured and starving mage cousin.
Point conceded then. The video I watched didn't view the journal after the quest was completed.
Noble goal, but that quest is so vague and duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuur. Unless I am roleplaying, I would rather access the better written content. I can encourage the ranks of the Good Templars in the other quest and eliminate one of the Bad Templars without consequence. Win/win.
And again. It appears that the game defaults to Meredith's quest if you refuse to take sides... or maybe you can't get either? Would need to check that.
Actually, if you side with Meredith at the start, does the ambient dialogue for people around the city change such that they are all anit-mage?
One of the bloodmages killed his own wife. Doubtful.
Huon, yeah he was nuttier then a squirrel turd.
Actually, if you side with Meredith at the start, does the ambient dialogue for people around the city change such that they are all anit-mage?
It changes if the Champion supports Orsino. People talk about how Meredith needs to be removed from power, some people even comment on having mages in their family (in the Circle) who are good people, and some even encourage the Champion to become the new Viscount.
Actually, if you side with Meredith at the start, does the ambient dialogue for people around the city change such that they are all anit-mage?
I haven't noticed. Ninja'd.
Anyone notice if it changes if you call them both nerds and tell them to get a room? =p
One of the bloodmages killed his own wife. Doubtful.
That elven blood mage was driven insane by his experiences of the Kirkwall Circle system. Before that, he was a rather nice guy and husband to his wife.
The journal entry reads (upon conclusion): "The knight-commander's death squad was killed".
I much prefer consolidating allies against Meredith and rescuing a woman from a death squad for the crime of feeding her tortured and starving mage cousin.
Honestly, it does seem like a quest that wasn't thought out too well and was placed there just to "hate Meredith". If you side with her, hunting bloodmages does make sense.
A Noble Agenda doesn't really. I mean, her commanding death squads is a huge deal, but was delegated to one small mission? In all the rumored atrocities that were flung around and this wasn't at the forefront? Seems a bit odd to me. Also, the allegations of her having hand-picked the zealots as well as her being in command of the "Death squad" come solely from the nobles, who certainly would not benefit from her being in power. Maybe the whole mission was to be left up to the interpretation of the player, since no absolutes were presented.
Actually, if you side with Meredith at the start, does the ambient dialogue for people around the city change such that they are all anit-mage?
Yeah they pretty much fawn over whichever side Hawke picks. If he's neutral they're neutral, pro mage pro mage so on.
I actually just watched a Let's Play with the quest. Annnnd... again... no real evidence. The Templar that is threatening the lady that fed her apostate cousin is cut off before he can actually SAY what the penalty is and then the rest is Hawke randomly killing Templars who say absolutely nothing and a noble woman giving her interpretation of the events. The templars never say what they're doing. They show up and suddenly they start murdering each other. A terribly ill-written quest if you ask me because there is nothing going on other than "kill some Templars" and "Nobles don't like Meredith".
At least with on The Last Holdouts there is some you know... meat to it. There is a clear narrative and you have an opportunity to see the whole schism in the Templar Order between the bullies and the moderates standing up to them and you still kill Templars.
I would recommend siding with Meredith the next time you do Act III because The Noble Agenda is a TERRIBLE quest from start to finish.
His tone with "The sentence is..." is a pretty clear indication that he's going to kill her, given that Ser Mettin is the same "kill 'em all" templar who shows up in The Last Holdouts. As for Ser Otto the Hound, it seems clear to me that he alerted the templars to the meeting but was trying to obliquely get everyone else to back down and leave before the templar attack... it just didn't work.
Honestly, it does seem like a quest that wasn't thought out too well and was placed there just to "hate Meredith". If you side with her, hunting bloodmages does make sense.
A Noble Agenda doesn't really. I mean, her commanding death squads is a huge deal, but was delegated to one small mission? In all the rumored atrocities that were flung around and this wasn't at the forefront? Seems a bit odd to me. Also, the allegations of her having hand-picked the zealots as well as her being in command of the "Death squad" come solely from the nobles, who certainly would not benefit from her being in power. Maybe the whole mission was to be left up to the interpretation of the player, since no absolutes were presented.
Act 3 was an enormous hatchet job. That's all we really need to know, but the quest log entries are objective and make no bones about Meredith being the one responsible for that.
Yeah, that is ridiculous. He was a good husband and a nice guy until he turned to blood magic and began consorting with demons. That is on him entirely. No excuse for it.
Yeah, that is ridiculous. He was a good husband and a nice guy until he began consorting with demons. That is on him entirely. No excuse for it.
It's all but stated outright that he went insane during his Circle captivity.
Yeah, that is ridiculous. He was a good husband and a nice guy until he began consorting with demons. That is on him entirely. No excuse for it.
You seem to misunderstand me.
He was a fairly nice guy mage until he was forcibly taken by the Templars to the Kirkwall Circle for being an apostate mage. He was then driven to insanity and blood magic and demons because of them. That;s his excuse.
This is on the Templars entirely.
His tone with "The sentence is..." is a pretty clear indication that he's going to kill her, given that Ser Mettin is the same "kill 'em all" templar who shows up in The Last Holdouts. As for Ser Otto the Hound, it seems clear to me that he alerted the templars to the meeting but was trying to obliquely get everyone else to back down and leave before the templar attack... it just didn't work.
And if we're going to bring up his character the Last Holdouts... well.... Agatha makes it clear that Meredith only wanted BLOOD MAGES dead. Not innocents and certainly not the families that were with those innocents. So again... now we have two different quests displaying two conflicting different sides of Meredith. We have hyperbole from noble houses (a politician lying to further their agenda... that's unheard of) making sweeping statements about Meredith and we have one of her actual knights that says "She doesn't want dead innocents". Which is... you know... more reliable?
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