I don't think many bioware companions would survive a fair trial and still be allowed to accompany you on your adventures, unless your adventures happen to be in prison.
Agreed. Most of the DA companions tend to be pretty questionable people and have done plenty of illegal crap.
While I like my white knight PCs I fully admit s/he's hanging around some very questionable people at best.
StannisAgreed. Most of the DA companions tend to be pretty questionable people and have done plenty of illegal crap.
While I like my white knight PCs I fully admit s/he's hanging around some very questionable people at best.
And who shall bring Anders and Hawke to justice for what they did?
Hawke was a duped accessory; I wouldn't think she's culpable enough to share in Anders' punishment to any great degree. As for Anders... here's where it gets fun, because while this would require greater assessment, it seems extremely likely that Justice is incapable of understanding the charges against it, or that anything it did could have been wrong. As such, Justice would probably be not guilty by reason of insanity, and thus no criminal punishment for Anders' actions could be enacted that would harm Justice. So ultimately, my verdict on Anders would A. depend heavily on his mental state circa DAI, and B. require that Justice somehow be separated from Anders before any criminal punishment could be performed on Anders. If that's impossible, the most I can do is work on trying to cure their mental issues.
Well, good luck with gathering a jury of his peers who will sit through a trial while demons are killing everything in sight. Priorities. Priorities.
I don't see anyone trusting Merrill's word, either. A dalish elf and blood mage who was kicked out of her clan. Bethany, who didn't hate Cullen at all. And I am sure they would love hearing Ander's testimony. Also, once again: Priority.
I said this'd be after the events of DAI.
And you don't think that this hasn't already been done by the Divine? Well... not the most recent Annulment... since most of the Templars told her peace out and rebelled... but THOSE are being brought to justice by the Inquisition? Yes? The Red Templars and all that noise.
But Kirkwall, as far as the next game is concerned. Old news. You'd be dragging up past tensions and again holding him responsible for... what exactly? Not stopping Meredith sooner is the only real bad thing that Cullen has done...
Which you know... if he had... then... that would make him the hero of Kirkwall. Not Hawke. Narrative roles to fill and all. Someone in a position of authority has to be left to show how grateful they are you killed the giant red lady.
For participating in the Annulment. I wouldn't be holding him for it if he had refused to follow Meredith period and tried to fight off the Annulment.
Agreed. Most of the DA companions tend to be pretty questionable people and have done plenty of illegal crap.
While I like my white knight PCs I fully admit s/he's hanging around some very questionable people at best.
Usually they aren't crimes against humanity.
Agreed. Most of the DA companions tend to be pretty questionable people and have done plenty of illegal crap.
While I like my white knight PCs I fully admit s/he's hanging around some very questionable people at best.
Isabela dumped a shipload of slaves overboard to lighten her ship and elude pursuit. Still hit it.
Usually they aren't crimes against humanity.
They're still slavers, murderers and torturers. Hardly a position to be looking their nose down at someone from.
I'd have a hard time trusting someone who viewed me as a heathen. If I was Dalish, I'd have a serious issue putting my faith in someone who looked down on me for my religious beliefs, particularly when my people say this was the cause of the war between the elves and humanity in the Dales. With clans being intimidated to convert by some narrow-minded Andrastians (as the Sabrae Clan faced in Sundermount), I'd have little reason to put any degree of trust in Cullen's moral compass if he hadn't changed. I'd presume the Dwarven and Vashoth protagonist may have had similar experiences as well, particularly if neither one converted to the Andrastian faith and lived near followers of the Chantry. And this doesn't even touch on the issue of magic.
If this blurb (that Gaider tweeted) is accurate to who Cullen is now, I'm inclined to think Cullen's dramatically changed, and that this likely won't be an issue.
That was during his Dark Time, yes? Because during the mage Origin he has no problem with a Surana. So, I suspect that the heaaaathen thing might have just been some of that "hiding behind the Dogma so I don't have to let myself think" he had going.
Not sure, as I don't recall ever seeing him behave that way to a non-Andrastian. In Act II, he is still spouting the Dogma a bit about mages, but calmly and a bit... "please understand how this is important to me?"
Oh, good grief. Let me clarify that I don't approve of capital punishment. It's a trial, not a slaughter.
Well, Nuremberg did culminate in capital punishment. But I don't think you're necessarily wrong for viewing the issue as you do. We'll see who Cullen is in DA:I. In DA:O, he was quite pro ROA.
Isabela dumped a shipload of slaves overboard to lighten her ship and elude pursuit. Still hit it.
Yeah one of my white knights did but I'm pretty sure that's something Isabela would never tell him. Not because he'd do something stupid like attack her but I guess the other fallout is something she really doesn't want to deal with and why reopen that wound. Just better to take it to the grave.
. Furthermore Annulment isn't a Crime against Humanity, it's a targeted last resort fall back plan that is supposed to only be invoked in the most dire of circumstances.They're still slavers, murderers and torturers. Hardly a position to be looking their nose down at someone from.
Well, good luck with gathering a jury of his peers who will sit through a trial while demons are killing everything in sight. Priorities. Priorities.
I don't see anyone trusting Merrill's word, either. A dalish elf and blood mage who was kicked out of her clan. Bethany, who didn't hate Cullen at all. And I am sure they would love hearing Ander's testimony. Also, once again: Priority.
You don't need anyone's word. You don't need testimony. The ROA happened. Mages died. Cullen was Knight-Captain, and he wasn't tried for desertion, so he clearly participated in the slaughter. There's nothing to contest there.
Usually they aren't crimes against humanity.
Of which, you never see him participate in. Because he doesn't. He isn't there when Meredith calls for the Annulment. He isn't there until Meredith gets to the Gallows and starts swinging her murder knife at innocent mages. THEN HE STEPS IN.
If you side with the mages, you miss that tidbit. He walks in with her, apparently briefed on the situation. Meredith goes all murder eyes on some surrendering mages and he says, "SLOW YOUR ROLL, LADY!"
Until then, he does nothing because there is NOTHING to stop.
Well, Nuremberg did culminate in capital punishment. But I don't think you're necessarily wrong for viewing the issue as you do. We'll see who Cullen is in DA:I. In DA:O, he was quite pro ROA.
And in DAII, he is all, "Hey now... things aren't NEARLY as bad as Kinloch Hold. We don't need to be killing everyone. WTF?"
. There would be no trial because Meredith invoked a legal right that she was allowed to do given the sudden vacancy of a higher authorityYou don't need anyone's word. You don't need testimony. The ROA happened. Mages died. Cullen was Knight-Captain, and he wasn't tried for desertion, so he clearly participated in the slaughter. There's nothing to contest there.
. Furthermore Annulment isn't a Crime against Humanity, it's a targeted last resort fall back plan that is supposed to only be invoked in the most dire of circumstances.
It's akin to burning down a village, not imitating everyone's favorite German Chancellor
It's a wholesale slaughter of every man, woman and child in the Circle because the templars think there are a number of dangerous mages there and they can't sort out the guilty from the innocent with certainty, so they just kill them all. It's a crime against humanity. The Circles as the whole are what meet the definition of genocide.
. Furthermore Annulment isn't a Crime against Humanity, it's a targeted last resort fall back plan that is supposed to only be invoked in the most dire of circumstances.
It's akin to burning down a village, not imitating everyone's favorite German Chancellor
Yep.
Sucks but that's how it was meant to be used. Cut off a limb to stop the infection from spreading.
. There would be no trial because Meredith invoked a legal right that she was allowed to do given the sudden vacancy of a higher authority
No. The fact that the SS was legally empowered to do what they did was meaningless. The law they were acting under would simply be illegitimate in any hypothetical trial.
Tragedy as the Kirkwall Annulment was, it wasn't a crime. Meredith was in her right. Cullen tried to temper the slaughter.
If you just want to murder all Templars, just say so. But what you want to do to Templars is not justice for those mages.
Hawke was a duped accessory; I wouldn't think she's culpable enough to share in Anders' punishment to any great degree. As for Anders... here's where it gets fun, because while this would require greater assessment, it seems extremely likely that Justice is incapable of understanding the charges against it, or that anything it did could have been wrong. As such, Justice would probably be not guilty by reason of insanity, and thus no criminal punishment for Anders' actions could be enacted that would harm Justice. So ultimately, my verdict on Anders would A. depend heavily on his mental state circa DAI, and B. require that Justice somehow be separated from Anders before any criminal punishment could be performed on Anders. If that's impossible, the most I can do is work on trying to cure their mental issue
I just don't even know. I just.... *walks away*
You don't need anyone's word. You don't need testimony. The ROA happened. Mages died. Cullen was Knight-Captain, and he wasn't tried for desertion, so he clearly participated in the slaughter. There's nothing to contest there.
I was making a reply to her post. Which said she would place him on trial and use Hawke's mage companions as witnesses.
Furthermore, ROA is an entirely legal process. Cullen isn't the one who declared it. He just followed orders. My Hawke helped him. There is nothing to contest because there is nothing to charge.
. The Circles are a prison system, an Annulment is putting down a prison riot. It would be genocide if there was a simultaneous annulment across multiple Circles for the expressed purpose of wiping out Mages because they are Mages, not because the tower has fallen to demonic influence.It's a wholesale slaughter of every man, woman and child in the Circle because the templars think there are a number of dangerous mages there and they can't sort out the guilty from the innocent with certainty, so they just kill them all. It's a crime against humanity. The Circles as the whole are what meet the definition of genocide.
. The SS answered to Hitler, their authority was not recognized by other nations, the Chantry's authority isNo. The fact that the SS was legally empowered to do what they did was meaningless. The law they were acting under would simply be illegitimate in any hypothetical trial.
No. The fact that the SS was legally empowered to do what they did was meaningless. The law they were acting under would simply be illegitimate in any hypothetical trial.
Except in the world in which the game is set.
FFS, mages aren't jews. Templars aren't Nazis. Get your irrelevant real life analogs out of the game where it doesn't fit.
And in DAII, he is all, "Hey now... things aren't NEARLY as bad as Kinloch Hold. We don't need to be killing everyone. WTF?"
Yes I love that. I love how he wrestles with "a good templar does this..." with how he thinks a good templar should be and to me decides the two are seperate when he goes "I believe that's what being a templar is about." to Meredith when he tries to spare the mages. Watching her eye twitch when Hawke backs him always has me smile.
Ugh. The KILLALLTEMPLARS crowd is just as bad as the KILLALLMAGES crowd.
Ugh. The KILLALLTEMPLARS crowd is just as bad as the KILLALLMAGES crowd.
XD they're so alike yet they fail to realize it.
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